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Giro 2017: Stage 9 Montenero Di Bisaccia - Blockhaus *spoilers*

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  • yourpaceormineyourpaceormine Posts: 1,245
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,892
    inseine wrote:
    milton50 wrote:
    So we what do we think is doable for Dumoulin across the two time trials? 2 minutes on Quintana?
    Well if there were just the TTs to go Dumoulin would have it in the bag but there's lots more climbing to come. He looks goid though

    Well, I know there is lots of climbing to come. I'm just interested in people's views on how much time he could put into Quintana over roughly 70km of time trialling. Over half of which is on moderately rolling terrain.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,658
    pirnie wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    Just seen it for the first time. He shouldn't have been there, but there's far worse hazards than that that these pros manage to avoid every day.

    Ditto, now I've seen it I take back what I said before about neutralisation

    Nowhere near as dangerous from the moto as the commentary made it out to be

    Well, I think most on here and the entire peloton would completely disagree with you.

    Moto stops, even slightly in front of a tightly packed bunch racing full on for the climb and it's going to happen every time.

    Not only did he wipe out Sky and Adam Yates, Tom Dumoulin lost his only proper mountain domestique in Wilko K.
    He was well peed off to say the least.

    It wasn't even that tightly packed. It's a balls up by the sunweb rider as much add the moto rider.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • keezxkeezx Posts: 1,311
    milton50 wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    milton50 wrote:
    So we what do we think is doable for Dumoulin across the two time trials? 2 minutes on Quintana?
    Well if there were just the TTs to go Dumoulin would have it in the bag but there's lots more climbing to come. He looks goid though

    Well, I know there is lots of climbing to come. I'm just interested in people's views on how much time he could put into Quintana over roughly 70km of time trialling. Over half of which is on moderately rolling terrain.

    Based on the form they showed today I would say 3-4 minutes.
    Dumoulin lost only 23 seconds on the Blockhaus , I had expected a lot more.
    Quintana isn't top yet, he can do a decent TT, never very far behind the specialists in a GT
  • oscarbudgieoscarbudgie Posts: 850
    gsk82 wrote:
    pirnie wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    Just seen it for the first time. He shouldn't have been there, but there's far worse hazards than that that these pros manage to avoid every day.

    Ditto, now I've seen it I take back what I said before about neutralisation

    Nowhere near as dangerous from the moto as the commentary made it out to be

    Well, I think most on here and the entire peloton would completely disagree with you.

    Moto stops, even slightly in front of a tightly packed bunch racing full on for the climb and it's going to happen every time.

    Not only did he wipe out Sky and Adam Yates, Tom Dumoulin lost his only proper mountain domestique in Wilko K.
    He was well peed off to say the least.

    It wasn't even that tightly packed. It's a balls up by the sunweb rider as much add the moto rider.
    Amazed people can come out with a comment like this
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • oscarbudgieoscarbudgie Posts: 850
    dabber wrote:
    Rai now taking pot shots at Sky for not bringing Viviani to their 100th Giro.
    Classy.
    Imagine if the cop had ko'd Nibali's chances.

    Time for Sky to pull out those needed for Tour duty.

    They may as well pull out entirely
    Cannondale Supersix / CAAD9 / Boardman 9.0 / Benotto 3000
  • emaddenemadden Posts: 2,431
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout


    But if you look back it was on an arrow straight road... They just didnt see it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaBEYHaiLc
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  • markwb79markwb79 Posts: 929
    emadden wrote:
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout


    But if you look back it was on an arrow straight road... They just didnt see it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaBEYHaiLc


    I do love trial by youtube instead of eyewitness.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    No chance should Movistar have been expected to wait - they were already drilling it on the front and had been for a while. Real shame we've been denied seeing 2 or 3 of the favourites battle for pink but I'd also question the wisdom of putting such a test of power to weight in as the first really selective stage.

    Hoping we see some spring an ambush for Movistar now as apart maybe from Pinot chipping away with time bonuses it's hard to see anyone catching quintana.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    emadden wrote:
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout


    But if you look back it was on an arrow straight road... They just didnt see it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaBEYHaiLc


    Yes I agree with that. The bike shouldn't have been there but I'm surprised there wasn't more communication from the front of the bunch - the first guy to hit it clearly hasn't had a shout from his team mate.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    Thomas on twitter: "It's a night for NWA"
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    emadden wrote:
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout


    But if you look back it was on an arrow straight road... They just didnt see it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaBEYHaiLc


    Yes I agree with that. The bike shouldn't have been there but I'm surprised there wasn't more communication from the front of the bunch - the first guy to hit it clearly hasn't had a shout from his team mate.
    You see about 30m of road before the crash in that clip. That's hardly enough to put your opinion above an actual eye witness.

    Why do some people feel the need to always blame the riders?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyracandyrac Posts: 469
    When are we going to see some kind of protocol/ procedure for 'non racing incidents'? I wouldn't blame Movistar, but the Race Director should be able to take action once he knows what happened.

    "These things happen" or "that's cycling" are just lazy excuses and are unacceptable in a supposed world class sporting event.
    " He's flown down the Mountain like a missile...."




    Trek Crockett 4
    Canyon Grand Canyon 8.0
  • yourpaceormineyourpaceormine Posts: 1,245
    Matt White (Orica) not happy with Movistar, says it was a downhill section with no escape to chase down, and they should have eased the pace for a couple of minutes until everyone up and back on bikes. Have a feeling this might come back to haunt Movistar this season: Orica and Sky liaison on attacking? Possibly. A less than sympathetic attitude if anything befalls a Movistar rider? Almost definitely .
  • emaddenemadden Posts: 2,431
    RichN95 wrote:
    emadden wrote:
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout


    But if you look back it was on an arrow straight road... They just didnt see it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaBEYHaiLc


    Yes I agree with that. The bike shouldn't have been there but I'm surprised there wasn't more communication from the front of the bunch - the first guy to hit it clearly hasn't had a shout from his team mate.
    You see about 30m of road before the crash in that clip. That's hardly enough to put your opinion above an actual eye witness.

    Why do some people feel the need to always blame the riders?

    For goodness sake. Go back and look at the crash on Eurosport. It happened at15.1km - there was 100m straight before the impact. It was arrow straight and as I say they didnt see it. The reason they didnt see it cos they were bunched on the left had side and only the first two or three riders wouldve seen it as they were in the gutter.

    Thats not opinion - thats from clear footage.
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  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,474
    OK, finally seen the crash. Given the race situation, you can't really blame the riders for that one. They're going real quick for the base of the climb and using all the road. If you see something stopped up ahead you're going to assume it's not in the road, and by the time you're on it it's tough to make an adjustment.

    Sorry, mio amico sulla moto, but that's not great.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • jam1ejam1e Posts: 986
    Was the moto stationary as they approached it or did it just pull over ahead of the peloton?
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,279
    Matt White (Orica) not happy with Movistar, says it was a downhill section with no escape to chase down, and they should have eased the pace for a couple of minutes until everyone up and back on bikes. Have a feeling this might come back to haunt Movistar this season: Orica and Sky liaison on attacking? Possibly. A less than sympathetic attitude if anything befalls a Movistar rider? Almost definitely .

    Sorry but that's bullshit and Matt White knows it. The race was on and, if Movistar had sat up en masse, another team would've taken it up. At this level you take your opportunities when they arise.

    That aside, the UCI need to step up now to address the ongoing issue with motor vehicles having a material impact on race results. There are too many vehicles in the convoy and too many of the drivers of these vehicles seem to have a complete lack of understanding of the correct behaviour to ensure the safety of the riders is not compromised. Any driver should know that if you stop a vehicle in the race corridor, you do so on the right hand side of the road and you should get off the carriageway. The Italian police rider today did neither, with catastrophic consequences. Thankfully the injuries sustained were superficial, but it could easily have been worse.
  • emaddenemadden Posts: 2,431
    jam1e wrote:
    Was the moto stationary as they approached it or did it just pull over ahead of the peloton?

    It was stationary and the first 15 - 20 riders saw it, but it was the guys behind who were riding the gutter that didnt see it until it was too late. The moto rider screwed up, but on a road that wide and straight there is a slight element of blame on the riders here too... It just as easily have been spectators standing on edge of road - wouldve been a similar result
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  • emaddenemadden Posts: 2,431
    andyp wrote:
    Any driver should know that if you stop a vehicle in the race corridor, you do so on the right hand side of the road and you should get off the carriageway. The Italian police rider today did neither, with catastrophic consequences. Thankfully the injuries sustained were superficial, but it could easily have been worse.


    100% correct
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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    emadden wrote:
    For goodness sake. Go back and look at the crash on Eurosport. It happened at15.1km - there was 100m straight before the impact. It was arrow straight and as I say they didnt see it. The reason they didnt see it cos they were bunched on the left had side and only the first two or three riders wouldve seen it as they were in the gutter.

    Thats not opinion - thats from clear footage.
    Eurosport were on an advert break.

    In your clip they crash after two seconds. For that to be 100m they would have to be travelling at 360km/h.

    Why are you so desperate to victim blame that you will dismiss what riders who were actually there say?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mrolimroli Posts: 3,622
    emadden wrote:
    jam1e wrote:
    Was the moto stationary as they approached it or did it just pull over ahead of the peloton?

    It was stationary and the first 15 - 20 riders saw it, but it was the guys behind who were riding the gutter that didnt see it until it was too late. The moto rider screwed up, but on a road that wide and straight there is a slight element of blame on the riders here too... It just as easily have been spectators standing on edge of road - wouldve been a similar result

    Dude, I've watched that 4 times and no one was in the gutter..... they were all right of the white line.
  • paul_onabikepaul_onabike Posts: 194
    edited May 2017
    Looked to me like the leading BMC rider tried to run the Sunweb rider into the motorbike - starting a chain reaction which caused the crash
  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 10,941
    emadden wrote:
    Understandably people are questioning why riders didn't see and indicate (and avoid) the motorbike as a hazard. Chad Haga has tweeted that it was around a bend and they didn't see it until it was too late, all they could do was shout


    But if you look back it was on an arrow straight road... They just didnt see it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaBEYHaiLc

    That footage does not contradict Chad Haga's tweet. All you see is 20-30m of straight road before you get the moto. The footage does not start early enough to falsify Haga's claim. It doesn't prove it either but I think I'll go with people who were actually there for now.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,368
    but whats the view on this, Ive seen on twitter TourdeJose say theres an unwritten rule in the peleton in Europe, that you never stop on the left side of the road though, no bike changes are ever done on the left side of the road apparently for that reason, only in the UK and Australia do they swap around. cant say Id ever noticed it in effect and Im sure if people look hard enough on youtube theyll find examples breaking it, but maybe thats why none of the riders anticipated it happening.
  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 10,941
    awavey wrote:
    but whats the view on this, Ive seen on twitter TourdeJose say theres an unwritten rule in the peloton in Europe, that you never stop on the left side of the road though, no bike changes are ever done on the left side of the road apparently for that reason, only in the UK and Australia do they swap around. cant say Id ever noticed it in effect and Im sure if people look hard enough on youtube theyll find examples breaking it, but maybe thats why none of the riders anticipated it happening.

    Ask Richie Porte about what happens when you wait on the left for a wheel change at the Giro...
    Correlation is not causation.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,835
    Just watched the highlights, big shame to see Landa, Yates, Thomas all lose time like that.

    I really hate seeing races decided by outside factors like that, it really shouldn't have happened.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    Wonderful stage.

    Tour level madness.

    Had it all.


    Super impressed with Dumolin.

    Pinot was great value too.

    Awful luck for sky.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    Quintana needs this multiple times to keep the Dutchman at bay.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    Thomas could still be top 5 if he keeps his head in the game.

    Sh!tter, but he could take this chance to have a less stressful GC challenge and learn from it.
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