Giro 2017: Stage 9 Montenero Di Bisaccia - Blockhaus *spoilers*

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Comments

  • philwint
    philwint Posts: 763
    I think the bit that annoyed me about Quintana & Movistar was the fact their jubilation in winning didn't really show any sporting acknowledgment of the crash.

    They were more - "what a fantastic day, superb win and we are really happy for the stage and the jersey, putting significant time into our rivals"

    And not - "The crash was a real shame and getting time into the 3 contenders taken out by the bike has taken the shine of what was a great victory and a good ride by Nairo"

    OK all i have heard is real time, rushed translations. So some of the subtlety in the responses has probably been lost.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,511
    Just caught up with the race. Some interesting (over)reactions as always on BR when Sky are involved.
    philwint wrote:

    And not - "The crash was a real shame and getting time into the 3 contenders taken out by the bike has taken the shine of what was a great victory and a good ride by Nairo"

    I imagine that Quintana didn't really see all three of them as threats before the crash.
  • craigus89
    craigus89 Posts: 887
    To be fair to Movistar, isn't this the clearest example of why you ride on the front and not in the middle of the bunch?
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,163
    To be fair I don't think anyone is defending the motorbike - he stopped in a poor position and created a hazard I haven't seen anyone argue differently.

    By the standards of the pro peloton though it was avoidable - but yes a rider looking down for a few seconds, fatigue meaning a couple didn't clock it was stationary til too late or whatever and we can have this result - I don't see that as being desperate to blame the riders just accepting that sometimes humans will not be 100% attentive at all times and if you place unnecessary hazards in their way often enough sooner or later one will catch them out.

    I agree the answer is to reduce the amount of race traffic and you should reduce the frequency of these incidents.

    Have you ever been driving on the motorway, there's a car ahead of you that you're gaining on, and suddenly you realise you are gaining on them much much quicker than you expected as they are doing 40mph or something? I expect this was similar; riders see a police moto towards the side of the road - expected. Suddenly they realise the moto is stationary - unexpected.

    As for Movistar, I don't think carrying on riding was unsportsmanlike but their guff about not knowing what was going on was hard to believe. I think Orica/Matt White's reaction was over the top, it will be interesting to see if they are hoisted by their own petard if a similar incident happens in the future when they are riding!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,243
    RichN95 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Probably been said before but Quintana can't rest on that time gap. It's far too small. Pinot could theoretically put in a better TT so Quintana will have to attack again. Will we see Pinot in pink?
    It's the Giro; it's starting to brood and simmer nicely.
    Somewhat unconvincing from Quintana, I thought. Certainly not a performance to proclaim yourself the New Pantani (which he did).

    Dumoulin, Pinot and Mollema won't be scared by that.

    No, but we also know that Quintana a) does better in week 3 than he does at the end of week one, and b) he prefers those kinds of finishes after lots of climbing beforehand.

    Then again, if we look at what Mollema was doing last year in the Tour and what Dumolin did with Froome in the Vuelta (before he decided to spend a season going for TTs), a 30 second winning margin is roughly what you'd expect from Quintana.
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    FocusZing wrote:
    Personally I feel there should be a designated ice cream van for each stage. In the event of a nasty crash at least the unfortunate can tuck into a nice tasty Cornetto. It would just take the edge off and divert thier minds from the pain and the general WTFness.


    I approve. Would vote for this 12/10
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    Craigus89 wrote:
    To be fair to Movistar, isn't this the clearest example of why you ride on the front and not in the middle of the bunch?
    No, not the best example, given that Sunweb were on the front...
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Well, that was a bugger yday and no mistake. Disappointing stuff.

    Has the idiot cop moto rider been chucked off the race at least?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,243
    Well, that was a bugger yday and no mistake. Disappointing stuff.

    Has the idiot cop moto rider been chucked off the race at least?

    Doesn't solve much does it?
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Well, that was a bugger yday and no mistake. Disappointing stuff.

    Has the idiot cop moto rider been chucked off the race at least?

    Doesn't solve much does it?



    Example to les autres etc
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    ddraver wrote:
    I can't understand how anyone is defending the motorbike but....

    For the sake of respectability now cycling has to sort out this ridiculous problem with race support vehicles making themselves integral arts of the race - it's once a GT now? Otherwise screw it let's just have random swinging logs across the road and get Richard Hammond to present it

    To be fair I don't think anyone is defending the motorbike - he stopped in a poor position and created a hazard I haven't seen anyone argue differently.

    By the standards of the pro peloton though it was avoidable - but yes a rider looking down for a few seconds, fatigue meaning a couple didn't clock it was stationary til too late or whatever and we can have this result - I don't see that as being desperate to blame the riders just accepting that sometimes humans will not be 100% attentive at all times and if you place unnecessary hazards in their way often enough sooner or later one will catch them out.

    I agree the answer is to reduce the amount of race traffic and you should reduce the frequency of these incidents.

    If the moto had stopped on the right hand side where they are supposed to stop then it also might not have happened.

    I don't think riders expect to see stationary race-related motorbikes on the left like that.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,243
    Well, that was a bugger yday and no mistake. Disappointing stuff.

    Has the idiot cop moto rider been chucked off the race at least?

    Doesn't solve much does it?



    Example to les autres etc

    Hardly a punishment is it?

    "Can you go back to your normal job where you can spend time with your family and kids again?"
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,741
    bobmcstuff wrote:

    If the moto had stopped on the right hand side where they are supposed to stop then it also might not have happened.

    I don't think riders expect to see stationary race-related motorbikes on the left like that.

    Especially wrong as he pulled in up the road coming off a right hand bend.
    A dim view taken in all senses of the word.
    Hardly a punishment is it?

    "Can you go back to your normal job where you can spend time with your family and kids again?"

    How about to acknowledge that he, not the riders, was in the wrong then Rick?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Ridgerider wrote:
    It was a marginal event...the first sunweb rider gets past the Moto, but the one behind is just a fraction left of him and catches it.

    I'm guessing the second sunweb rider was kelderman. He did seem to crash alot at rabo/belkin/jumbo...perhaps you make your own luck in situations like that. For example, was he the only rider to hit the Moto or did the line of riders immediately behind him also collide with it?

    Was it not Kelderman who caused the crash that took out Froome in the 2014 Tour? It was a Belkin rider who swerved on the left hand side of the road in a similar fashion. I'm not implying anything just mentioning the coincidence if indeed it was Kelderman in the Tour.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,243
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.

    :roll:

    It's the Giro - if any race should be able to shrug off an accident by those in charge it's the Giro.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,741
    Ridgerider wrote:
    It was a marginal event...the first sunweb rider gets past the Moto, but the one behind is just a fraction left of him and catches it.

    I'm guessing the second sunweb rider was kelderman. He did seem to crash alot at rabo/belkin/jumbo...perhaps you make your own luck in situations like that. For example, was he the only rider to hit the Moto or did the line of riders immediately behind him also collide with it?

    Was it not Kelderman who caused the crash that took out Froome in the 2014 Tour? It was a Belkin rider who swerved on the left hand side of the road in a similar fashion. I'm not implying anything just mentioning the coincidence if indeed it was Kelderman in the Tour.

    It was not. :P
    Jens Keukeleire it was.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    ^ Ah ha. Thanks.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    I like Brailsfords response. Sh1t happens, learn from it, next!
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,069
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.

    :roll:

    It's the Giro - if any race should be able to shrug off an accident by those in charge it's the Giro.

    You'd think, given that a rider lost their life in the Giro just a few years ago, that the Giro organisers would take rider safety a little more seriously. Of course accidents will happen, it's part of the sport, but accidents where the fault is with errors made by those whose job is to ensure the safe passage of the race need to be eradicated.

    It's not as if this is an isolated incident either, was it Friday's stage where a marshall was stood in the middle of the road vainly trying to get the peloton to take the right hand lane as the riders swarmed past him? That was before the finishing circuit that was, frankly, dangerous. The crash at the foot of Etna was partly caused by poor course marking and marshalling, on stage 1 the narrowing right hand bend with 3.2 kms to go was dangerous. The Giro organisation really need to up their rider safety game.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    FocusZing wrote:
    I like Brailsfords response. Sh1t happens, learn from it, next!

    If only they did

    andyp wrote:
    It's not as if this is an isolated incident either, was it Friday's stage where a marshall was stood in the middle of the road vainly trying to get the peloton to take the right hand lane as the riders swarmed past him? That was before the finishing circuit that was, frankly, dangerous. The crash at the foot of Etna was partly caused by poor course marking and marshalling, on stage 1 the narrowing right hand bend with 3.2 kms to go was dangerous. The Giro organisation really need to up their rider safety game.

    This. All of this is avoidable.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    Craigus89 wrote:
    To be fair to Movistar, isn't this the clearest example of why you ride on the front and not in the middle of the bunch?
    Yeah, why don't they all ride on the front? madness.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.
    But it was caused by a policeman failing to follow protocol. If a policeman, through negligence, injures members of the public, it shouldn't ever be just brushed off. I'm not suggesting the full AC-12 treatment, but he should face a workplace disciplinary.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,243
    andyp wrote:
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.

    :roll:

    It's the Giro - if any race should be able to shrug off an accident by those in charge it's the Giro.

    You'd think, given that a rider lost their life in the Giro just a few years ago, that the Giro organisers would take rider safety a little more seriously. Of course accidents will happen, it's part of the sport, but accidents where the fault is with errors made by those whose job is to ensure the safe passage of the race need to be eradicated.

    It's not as if this is an isolated incident either, was it Friday's stage where a marshall was stood in the middle of the road vainly trying to get the peloton to take the right hand lane as the riders swarmed past him? That was before the finishing circuit that was, frankly, dangerous. The crash at the foot of Etna was partly caused by poor course marking and marshalling, on stage 1 the narrowing right hand bend with 3.2 kms to go was dangerous. The Giro organisation really need to up their rider safety game.

    Yes absolutely.

    I don't think the solution is to get all hysterical and shout "WHO IS AT FAULT????"

    I mean, fair enough if it was me on the deck I'd probably have punched the moto rider after reconnecting my shoulder, but if you're the organiser you'd do better to learn from it.

    Like "this is a healthy reminder that regardless of what way the road is pointing, never wait on the left, especially just after a blind bend."

    For example.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,131
    inseine wrote:
    Craigus89 wrote:
    To be fair to Movistar, isn't this the clearest example of why you ride on the front and not in the middle of the bunch?
    Yeah, why don't they all ride on the front? madness.

    To be fair, there was only 10 riders (across the whole road) in front of the Sky rider who took the first hit. Kelderman was third wheel. They weren't taking it easy in the middle of the bunch.

    Bad luck that it was them. Like it was with Valverde in the Vuelta a few years back.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,348
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    I like Brailsfords response. Sh1t happens, learn from it, next!

    If only they did

    andyp wrote:
    It's not as if this is an isolated incident either, was it Friday's stage where a marshall was stood in the middle of the road vainly trying to get the peloton to take the right hand lane as the riders swarmed past him? That was before the finishing circuit that was, frankly, dangerous. The crash at the foot of Etna was partly caused by poor course marking and marshalling, on stage 1 the narrowing right hand bend with 3.2 kms to go was dangerous. The Giro organisation really need to up their rider safety game.

    This. All of this is avoidable.

    That for me. I'm not interested who gets knocked off or when. The problem is that people being knocked off by bikes is becoming so common we re becoming blasé about it. Perhaps it's because I had the spring "off" from cycling fandom so I'm not so absorbed and can stand back from it a bit but it just makes the sport look ridiculous.

    Am I going to tune in this afternoon? Pffft, dunno. To be honest there are a lot of other options that don't look like the wacky races...

    WackyRacesAllCharactersSM4f.gif
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    ddraver wrote:
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    I like Brailsfords response. Sh1t happens, learn from it, next!

    If only they did

    andyp wrote:
    It's not as if this is an isolated incident either, was it Friday's stage where a marshall was stood in the middle of the road vainly trying to get the peloton to take the right hand lane as the riders swarmed past him? That was before the finishing circuit that was, frankly, dangerous. The crash at the foot of Etna was partly caused by poor course marking and marshalling, on stage 1 the narrowing right hand bend with 3.2 kms to go was dangerous. The Giro organisation really need to up their rider safety game.

    This. All of this is avoidable.

    That for me. I'm not interested who gets knocked off or when. The problem is that people being knocked off by bikes is becoming so common we re becoming blasé about it. Perhaps it's because I had the spring "off" from cycling fandom so I'm not so absorbed and can stand back from it a bit but it just makes the sport look ridiculous.

    Am I going to tune in this afternoon? Pffft, dunno. To be honest there are a lot of other options that don't look like the wacky races...

    I wouldn't bother tuning in this afternoon.....
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Ha!
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    RichN95 wrote:
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.
    But it was caused by a policeman failing to follow protocol. If a policeman, through negligence, injures members of the public, it shouldn't ever be just brushed off. I'm not suggesting the full AC-12 treatment, but he should face a workplace disciplinary.

    I do think there is a case for suing for potential loss of earnings.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Markwb79 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.
    But it was caused by a policeman failing to follow protocol. If a policeman, through negligence, injures members of the public, it shouldn't ever be just brushed off. I'm not suggesting the full AC-12 treatment, but he should face a workplace disciplinary.

    I do think there is a case for suing for potential loss of earnings.

    I think that's going a bit far, but there has to be effort to learn from these type of things and do everything reasonable to prevent them happening again.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Markwb79 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Accidents happen.

    Blame blame blame.
    But it was caused by a policeman failing to follow protocol. If a policeman, through negligence, injures members of the public, it shouldn't ever be just brushed off. I'm not suggesting the full AC-12 treatment, but he should face a workplace disciplinary.

    I do think there is a case for suing for potential loss of earnings.

    Then the government police force turn round and charge twice as much to cover potential litigation costs.