snap general election?

slowbike

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39634287
Suspended MP Simon Danczuk wants to stand for Labour in election

So - basically - this chap - who has done a lot of work on Child abuse - including Rochdale - admits to sending " explicit messages with a 17-year-old girl." still wants to stand as a representative of the people?!

Is he mad?!

I mean - none of us are 100% perfect - but surely there needs to be some level of decency in order to be an MP ...

he looks like a paragon of virtue next to this chap who they all happily voted for

Allegations about Vaz were published by the British Sunday Mirror tabloid in early September 2016. It was reported that he had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with male prostitutes and had said he would pay for cocaine if they wished to use it.

At the end of October 2016, Vaz was appointed to the Justice Select Committee, after he had put himself forward and was nominated by his party.[60] A House of Commons motion to block this development was defeated; they are rare on such an issue. According to Laura Hughes of The Daily Telegraph, Conservative Party whips told their MPs to vote for Vaz in the division to prevent a precedent being created of such appointments being rejected by MPs. Over 150 Conservative MPs voted in support of Vaz.[1]

Assumes the allegations are true - I guess there must be an element of truth in it - otherwise he would be suing the paper.

Technically, prostitution is legal, and whilst giving someone money so they can buy drugs is dubious, if done at arms length then may technically be legal ...
Vaz is a non-practicing barister and his wife is a solicitor and part time judge ...

Does it seem that we get a large proportion of dubious people as MPs compared to normal walks of life? Looking around my colleagues I can't see that they get up to anything you could really class as dubious .. ok, they may have their secrets - but I doubt it's as low as MPs seem to get ...

mamba80

rjsterry wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

... having compassion for the mentally ill...
i think that if you are PM and base your political beliefs on God then yes you are possibly Mad.

Are you selective about for which of the mentally ill we should have compassion. I suppose it is much easier to label someone mentally ill than come up with actual counter arguments to their ideas.

if you mean i was inferring May is mentally ill? not at all, i meant people people with mental health needs or who need counselling to help prevent them becoming mentally ill.

short funding community mental health is a very unwise thing to do, how the tories cant see this is beyond my comprehension.

any one who is truly delusional cant be argued with, hang on......

rjsterry

So when you said "mad" you meant what exactly? It slightly undermines your well-founded concern for mental health provision if you go around labelling anyone you disagree with as mad or delusional.

mrfpb

Slowbike wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39634287
Suspended MP Simon Danczuk wants to stand for Labour in election

So - basically - this chap - who has done a lot of work on Child abuse - including Rochdale - admits to sending " explicit messages with a 17-year-old girl." still wants to stand as a representative of the people?!

Is he mad?!

I mean - none of us are 100% perfect - but surely there needs to be some level of decency in order to be an MP ...

he looks like a paragon of virtue next to this chap who they all happily voted for

Allegations about Vaz were published by the British Sunday Mirror tabloid in early September 2016. It was reported that he had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with male prostitutes and had said he would pay for cocaine if they wished to use it.

At the end of October 2016, Vaz was appointed to the Justice Select Committee, after he had put himself forward and was nominated by his party.[60] A House of Commons motion to block this development was defeated; they are rare on such an issue. According to Laura Hughes of The Daily Telegraph, Conservative Party whips told their MPs to vote for Vaz in the division to prevent a precedent being created of such appointments being rejected by MPs. Over 150 Conservative MPs voted in support of Vaz.[1]

Assumes the allegations are true - I guess there must be an element of truth in it - otherwise he would be suing the paper.

Technically, prostitution is legal, and whilst giving someone money so they can buy drugs is dubious, if done at arms length then may technically be legal ...
Vaz is a non-practicing barister and his wife is a solicitor and part time judge ...

Does it seem that we get a large proportion of dubious people as MPs compared to normal walks of life? Looking around my colleagues I can't see that they get up to anything you could really class as dubious .. ok, they may have their secrets - but I doubt it's as low as MPs seem to get ...

Vaz had just quit the Home Affairs Select committee at the time - where he had been chairing the Committee's investigation into prostitution. It seems thsat Corbyn was following the Blair tradition of accepting a resignation in disgrace from an MP, then immeadiately letting them take on a new equally senior role when the fuss died down. (See also Liam Fox for the Tories - though he had a few years in the wildrerness before Brexit brought him back)

bianchimoon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39634287
Suspended MP Simon Danczuk wants to stand for Labour in election

So - basically - this chap - who has done a lot of work on Child abuse - including Rochdale - admits to sending " explicit messages with a 17-year-old girl." still wants to stand as a representative of the people?!

Is he mad?!

I mean - none of us are 100% perfect - but surely there needs to be some level of decency in order to be an MP ...

he looks like a paragon of virtue next to this chap who they all happily voted for

Allegations about Vaz were published by the British Sunday Mirror tabloid in early September 2016. It was reported that he had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with male prostitutes and had said he would pay for cocaine if they wished to use it.

At the end of October 2016, Vaz was appointed to the Justice Select Committee, after he had put himself forward and was nominated by his party.[60] A House of Commons motion to block this development was defeated; they are rare on such an issue. According to Laura Hughes of The Daily Telegraph, Conservative Party whips told their MPs to vote for Vaz in the division to prevent a precedent being created of such appointments being rejected by MPs. Over 150 Conservative MPs voted in support of Vaz.[1]

Look into Vaz's history as an MP, he has history

surrey_commuter

bianchimoon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39634287
Suspended MP Simon Danczuk wants to stand for Labour in election

So - basically - this chap - who has done a lot of work on Child abuse - including Rochdale - admits to sending " explicit messages with a 17-year-old girl." still wants to stand as a representative of the people?!

Is he mad?!

I mean - none of us are 100% perfect - but surely there needs to be some level of decency in order to be an MP ...

he looks like a paragon of virtue next to this chap who they all happily voted for

Allegations about Vaz were published by the British Sunday Mirror tabloid in early September 2016. It was reported that he had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with male prostitutes and had said he would pay for cocaine if they wished to use it.

At the end of October 2016, Vaz was appointed to the Justice Select Committee, after he had put himself forward and was nominated by his party.[60] A House of Commons motion to block this development was defeated; they are rare on such an issue. According to Laura Hughes of The Daily Telegraph, Conservative Party whips told their MPs to vote for Vaz in the division to prevent a precedent being created of such appointments being rejected by MPs. Over 150 Conservative MPs voted in support of Vaz.[1]

Look into Vaz's history as an MP, he has history

It is not just Vaz - he was nominated by his party and then elected by all MPs to the Justice Select Committee

maybe they all have a great sense of irony

bendertherobot

Better ironic than Liz Truss.

rjsterry

Slowbike wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39634287
Suspended MP Simon Danczuk wants to stand for Labour in election

So - basically - this chap - who has done a lot of work on Child abuse - including Rochdale - admits to sending " explicit messages with a 17-year-old girl." still wants to stand as a representative of the people?!

Is he mad?!

I mean - none of us are 100% perfect - but surely there needs to be some level of decency in order to be an MP ...

he looks like a paragon of virtue next to this chap who they all happily voted for

Allegations about Vaz were published by the British Sunday Mirror tabloid in early September 2016. It was reported that he had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with male prostitutes and had said he would pay for cocaine if they wished to use it.

At the end of October 2016, Vaz was appointed to the Justice Select Committee, after he had put himself forward and was nominated by his party.[60] A House of Commons motion to block this development was defeated; they are rare on such an issue. According to Laura Hughes of The Daily Telegraph, Conservative Party whips told their MPs to vote for Vaz in the division to prevent a precedent being created of such appointments being rejected by MPs. Over 150 Conservative MPs voted in support of Vaz.[1]

Assumes the allegations are true - I guess there must be an element of truth in it - otherwise he would be suing the paper.

Technically, prostitution is legal, and whilst giving someone money so they can buy drugs is dubious, if done at arms length then may technically be legal ...
Vaz is a non-practicing barister and his wife is a solicitor and part time judge ...

Does it seem that we get a large proportion of dubious people as MPs compared to normal walks of life? Looking around my colleagues I can't see that they get up to anything you could really class as dubious .. ok, they may have their secrets - but I doubt it's as low as MPs seem to get ...

I think MPs and others in the public eye are subject to a far greater level of scrutiny. I think your colleagues are probably just as dubious, but no-one is ever going to tip off the tabloids that Dave in accounts likes to dress as a unicorn in his spare time.

rjsterry

bendertherobot wrote:

Better ironic than Liz Truss.

Apart from having a rather glaring blindspot for a conflict of interest, he might actually have been good at the job.

kingstongraham

rjsterry wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Better ironic than Liz Truss.

Apart from having a rather glaring blindspot for a conflict of interest, he might actually have been good at the job.

He did his research thoroughly, that's for sure.

slowbike

rjsterry wrote:

I think MPs and others in the public eye are subject to a far greater level of scrutiny. I think your colleagues are probably just as dubious, but no-one is ever going to tip off the tabloids that Dave in accounts likes to dress as a unicorn in his spare time.

Absolutely .... and I told you not to pass on that gossip about Dave in accounts - he's most upset now - his horn has gone all droopy !!

I dunno - it doesn't seem that difficult to be morally good ..

Oh - just remembered - many years ago - caught a bloke in purchasing looking at gay porn on his office computer.... so perhaps we're not all whiter than white after all!

rick_chasey

For last 7 GEs, Labour has done worse than the initial poll suggested 7-10 weeks before the big day.

mamba80

rjsterry wrote:

So when you said "mad" you meant what exactly? It slightly undermines your well-founded concern for mental health provision if you go around labelling anyone you disagree with as mad or delusional.

context matey, context! the tone of the debate was in reference to lostboysaint and his "mad woman" May statement, i dont think i used this term first, so my GF often refers to herself as the mad cat woman of Plymouth (there is far more than one though!!!) despite the fact she has some close family exp of mental health issues, her use does not in anyway undermine their treatment nor the months spent waiting for said treatment, thats purely your interpretation.

this isnt the BPS forum and common everyday terms can be used (in context) without being pulled up.... however if my use of the word - mad - has caused you offence, then i am sorry for that and wont use it again.

mrfpb

And going back to Simon Danczuk MP. If he had been a teacher, youth worker, doctor, nurse, social worker his career would be over. He is currently suspended by the party, so at least there is an opportunity to exclude one corrupt low life from parlaiament.

anonymousblackfg

Slowbike wrote:

Does it seem that we get a large proportion of dubious people as MPs compared to normal walks of life? Looking around my colleagues I can't see that they get up to anything you could really class as dubious .. ok, they may have their secrets - but I doubt it's as low as MPs seem to get ...

Remember the people sticking them forwards to be an MP have the opinion at the outset that they are the best person to do the job/take a position of leadership so I think it's only natural that they come with a few flaws in their characters.

surrey_commuter

mrfpb wrote:

And going back to Simon Danczuk MP. If he had been a teacher, youth worker, doctor, nurse, social worker his career would be over. He is currently suspended by the party, so at least there is an opportunity to exclude one corrupt low life from parlaiament.

Can we add Chris Grayling? his constituency home is all of 17 miles from Westminster yet he felt the need for the taxpayer to buy him a flat and then to renovate it for him. He also asserts that he has paid back the profit he made selling the flat but declines to produce any evidence.

Boris Johnson can go on the list for lying and philandering

rick_chasey

Stop voting for them then.

Average folk moan about politicians being this than and the other, but somebody somewhere is voting for them.

Jez mon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stop voting for them then.

Average folk moan about politicians being this than and the other, but somebody somewhere is voting for them.

Sure, but however hard I vote for the Liberal Democrats in my constituency, the fact is, in all likelihood, BoJo, Fox, Danczuk, Grayling, Vas and whoever else, are most probably going to get in. It does grate somewhat.

slowbike

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stop voting for them then.

Average folk moan about politicians being this than and the other, but somebody somewhere is voting for them.

Well - I'm in a firm tory constituancy with a "whiter than white" MP who has welcomed scruitiny by the local press into his expenses and nobody has dished any dirt on him yet - the worst thats happened is that some people don't agree with his politics ...

rjsterry

mamba80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

So when you said "mad" you meant what exactly? It slightly undermines your well-founded concern for mental health provision if you go around labelling anyone you disagree with as mad or delusional.

context matey, context! the tone of the debate was in reference to lostboysaint and his "mad woman" May statement, i dont think i used this term first, so my GF often refers to herself as the mad cat woman of Plymouth (there is far more than one though!!!) despite the fact she has some close family exp of mental health issues, her use does not in anyway undermine their treatment nor the months spent waiting for said treatment, thats purely your interpretation.

this isnt the BPS forum and common everyday terms can be used (in context) without being pulled up.... however if my use of the word - mad - has caused you offence, then i am sorry for that and wont use it again.

I'm a bit thicker skinned than that It was just a juxtaposition that caught my eye. FWIW, I think there are lots and lots of things to criticise TM for, but basing her decisions on her beliefs and principles is not one of them. It is true that people who talk publicly about the influence of their faith on their actions have a tendency to be rather selective about which parts of their beliefs to apply in a given circumstance, but the same could be said about those who loudly proselytise about their atheism and humanist principles.

surrey_commuter

Slowbike wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stop voting for them then.

Average folk moan about politicians being this than and the other, but somebody somewhere is voting for them.

Well - I'm in a firm tory constituancy with a "whiter than white" MP who has welcomed scruitiny by the local press into his expenses and nobody has dished any dirt on him yet - the worst thats happened is that some people don't agree with his politics ...

I would need to vote 25,000 times to get rid of Grayling

kingstongraham

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stop voting for them then.

Average folk moan about politicians being this than and the other, but somebody somewhere is voting for them.

Well - I'm in a firm tory constituancy with a "whiter than white" MP who has welcomed scruitiny by the local press into his expenses and nobody has dished any dirt on him yet - the worst thats happened is that some people don't agree with his politics ...

I would need to vote 25,000 times to get rid of Grayling

Worked for us with Zac.

coopster_the_1st

bianchimoon wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

It's amazing Labour have got it so wrong that despite the country being as divided as ever, undertaking hard brexit and suffering thanks to the cuts that Conservatives will win at a canter.

Yes, Britain is a middle of the road country, go too far left or right and you lose... the lib dems seem the best of a bad buch at the moment, tho' I think Farron will easily be tripped up by his 'christian' views

For balance, are you referring to these 'Christian' views?

https://www.channel4.com/news/tim-farron-asked-three-times-if-gay-sex-is-a-sin

Not sure why being a Christian makes TM bad/mad but the same religion brings no criticism of Farron?

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

It's amazing Labour have got it so wrong that despite the country being as divided as ever, undertaking hard brexit and suffering thanks to the cuts that Conservatives will win at a canter.

Yes, Britain is a middle of the road country, go too far left or right and you lose... the lib dems seem the best of a bad buch at the moment, tho' I think Farron will easily be tripped up by his 'christian' views

For balance, are you referring to these 'Christian' views?

https://www.channel4.com/news/tim-farron-asked-three-times-if-gay-sex-is-a-sin

Not sure why being a Christian makes TM bad/mad but the same religion brings no criticism of Farron?

Not quite sure why C4 News are making such a thing of this. It seems pretty clear that he can separate his personal views on homosexuality from the question of what the law should say about equal rights. It's all sounding a bit like the thought police. But then I don't have a problem with May stating that her Christian beliefs influence her decisions either. Frankly it would be bizarre if they didn't. Nobody would suggest that an atheist should not allow their humanist beliefs to influence their decisions.

Lookyhere

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

It's amazing Labour have got it so wrong that despite the country being as divided as ever, undertaking hard brexit and suffering thanks to the cuts that Conservatives will win at a canter.

Yes, Britain is a middle of the road country, go too far left or right and you lose... the lib dems seem the best of a bad buch at the moment, tho' I think Farron will easily be tripped up by his 'christian' views

For balance, are you referring to these 'Christian' views?

https://www.channel4.com/news/tim-farron-asked-three-times-if-gay-sex-is-a-sin

Not sure why being a Christian makes TM bad/mad but the same religion brings no criticism of Farron?

Not quite sure why C4 News are making such a thing of this. It seems pretty clear that he can separate his personal views on homosexuality from the question of what the law should say about equal rights. It's all sounding a bit like the thought police. But then I don't have a problem with May stating that her Christian beliefs influence her decisions either. Frankly it would be bizarre if they didn't. Nobody would suggest that an atheist should not allow their humanist beliefs to influence their decisions.

Has any PM recent or otherwise, boasted that they do not believe in god and that their atheist views form their decision making process?

rjsterry

Lookyhere wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

It's amazing Labour have got it so wrong that despite the country being as divided as ever, undertaking hard brexit and suffering thanks to the cuts that Conservatives will win at a canter.

Yes, Britain is a middle of the road country, go too far left or right and you lose... the lib dems seem the best of a bad buch at the moment, tho' I think Farron will easily be tripped up by his 'christian' views

For balance, are you referring to these 'Christian' views?

https://www.channel4.com/news/tim-farron-asked-three-times-if-gay-sex-is-a-sin

Not sure why being a Christian makes TM bad/mad but the same religion brings no criticism of Farron?

Not quite sure why C4 News are making such a thing of this. It seems pretty clear that he can separate his personal views on homosexuality from the question of what the law should say about equal rights. It's all sounding a bit like the thought police. But then I don't have a problem with May stating that her Christian beliefs influence her decisions either. Frankly it would be bizarre if they didn't. Nobody would suggest that an atheist should not allow their humanist beliefs to influence their decisions.

Has any PM recent or otherwise, boasted that they do not believe in god and that their atheist views form their decision making process?

Well quite. So why the fuss?

I did think wading into the National Trust/Easter non-essential showed a lack of judgement. One for not checking whether it was actually true before making a comment, and two for being so thin skinned about it. It's not as though it is an exclusively Christian festival.

Lookyhere

That is the whole point though isnt it? they use Christianity for their own ends, its got nothing to do with any long held genuine beliefs at all.
If atheism won votes they d drop the god banner faster than you can say "i am not going to call a snap election"

rjsterry

Lookyhere wrote:

That is the whole point though isnt it? they use Christianity for their own ends, its got nothing to do with any long held genuine beliefs at all.
If atheism won votes they d drop the god banner faster than you can say "i am not going to call a snap election"

On reflection, Tony Blair famously didn’t do God until after he stepped down. He made a bit of a fuss about converting to Catholicism after that, but so what. John Major didn't really do God either. He did make that rather queasy speech about old maids cycling to communion (quoting Orwell), but I'm not sure that counts. So although I'd agree TM was milking it a bit I don't think it's really a PM thing.

bianchimoon

Lookyhere wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

It's amazing Labour have got it so wrong that despite the country being as divided as ever, undertaking hard brexit and suffering thanks to the cuts that Conservatives will win at a canter.

Yes, Britain is a middle of the road country, go too far left or right and you lose... the lib dems seem the best of a bad buch at the moment, tho' I think Farron will easily be tripped up by his 'christian' views

For balance, are you referring to these 'Christian' views?

https://www.channel4.com/news/tim-farron-asked-three-times-if-gay-sex-is-a-sin

Not sure why being a Christian makes TM bad/mad but the same religion brings no criticism of Farron?

Not quite sure why C4 News are making such a thing of this. It seems pretty clear that he can separate his personal views on homosexuality from the question of what the law should say about equal rights. It's all sounding a bit like the thought police. But then I don't have a problem with May stating that her Christian beliefs influence her decisions either. Frankly it would be bizarre if they didn't. Nobody would suggest that an atheist should not allow their humanist beliefs to influence their decisions.

Has any PM recent or otherwise, boasted that they do not believe in god and that their atheist views form their decision making process?

Nick clegg is atheist does he count as ex deputy pm?

bianchimoon

rjsterry wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

That is the whole point though isnt it? they use Christianity for their own ends, its got nothing to do with any long held genuine beliefs at all.
If atheism won votes they d drop the god banner faster than you can say "i am not going to call a snap election"

On reflection, Tony Blair famously didn’t do God until after he stepped down. He made a bit of a fuss about converting to Catholicism after that, but so what. John Major didn't really do God either. He did make that rather queasy speech about old maids cycling to communion (quoting Orwell), but I'm not sure that counts. So although I'd agree TM was milking it a bit I don't think it's really a PM thing.

Agreed politics and religion should not be mentioned in the same breath