snap general election?

imposter2.0

mamba80 wrote:

yep, would nt normally agree with you but to me, TM is a hard line brexitier, she wants a bigger majority to pursue her vision of the UK (totally) out of Europe.
there is no solace in a TM government, only more sidelining and exclusion.

May was a remain supporter.

mamba80

Imposter wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

yep, would nt normally agree with you but to me, TM is a hard line brexitier, she wants a bigger majority to pursue her vision of the UK (totally) out of Europe.
there is no solace in a TM government, only more sidelining and exclusion.

May was a remain supporter.

really?

vinnymarsden

I think TM, whatever you think of her , actually believes in the rights of the people..especially re BREXIT, whether she voted stay or go, she does seem determined to see through what we voted for...so, power to her in that respect.
She clearly wants her own mandate to be PM, the job as it stands was given to her by Dodgy Dave, and being realistic, she wants it to be her job, won on her ticket, can't blame her for that.We have had enough "back door" PMs in the last 30yrs, we inherited Gordon Brown, who it would now appear was handed the job by Blair once Blair realised he had made a complete dogs breakfast of it, so winning in your own name has to be part of the reason TM has called it.
Personally, I can't see past a landslide Tory victory..not because it's the best thing all round....but in all truthfulness, would you entrust the no doubt very stormy waters of the Brexit negotiations to Labour? I wouldn't even like to consider that as an option, even as a joke!!

Jez mon

The saving grace for Jeremy Corbyn and labour would be that the EU negotiation would be with the European union, and not with the UK press.

Ultimately I think given how strongly most remainers feel about remaining, there is appetite for a progressive/central/stay in the common market, ticket.

However, it's difficult to see that coming together in 8 weeks.

It'll be interesting to see if TM comes up with an alternative view of brexit, but I can't see her being arsed frankly, she's probably gonna walk the election whatever she does between now and then. She may as well go on holiday!

mr_goo

mamba80 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

yep, would nt normally agree with you but to me, TM is a hard line brexitier, she wants a bigger majority to pursue her vision of the UK (totally) out of Europe.
there is no solace in a TM government, only more sidelining and exclusion.

May was a remain supporter.

really?

Really. Although not that vocal on the subject.

imposter2.0

mamba80 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

yep, would nt normally agree with you but to me, TM is a hard line brexitier, she wants a bigger majority to pursue her vision of the UK (totally) out of Europe.
there is no solace in a TM government, only more sidelining and exclusion.

May was a remain supporter.

really?

Jez mon

She was a remain campaigner, now she's been taking us towards the hardest brexit possible. She wasn't going to hold an election, now she is. Maybe tomorrow she'll wake up and decide she didn't want to be a politician at all.

She wanted to be a lumberjack.

mrfpb

May seems good at being tight lipped about her plans. You have to judge her by her actions. She has put forward a hard Brexit plan, and she has used Labour votes to get past the pro-Remain Tories who wanted to back the Lord's amendments on Article 50.

Of course, I could be wrong and she may rip up all her statements so far on Brexit and put forward a manifesto commitment to a Kleenex-soft Brexit that even SC and Mambo will sign up to, but I very much doubt it.

mrfpb

And it has been funny/made me angry that so many (non Tory) MPs have come out and said how awful/cynical/weak the Tories are to do this, but none have given any commitment to vote against it (apart from one Labour MP with a majority of 93). Labour and the SNP could kill this election dead tomorrow if they had the guts to do so.

Jez mon

mrfpb wrote:

And it has been funny/made me angry that so many (non Tory) MPs have come out and said how awful/cynical/weak the Tories are to do this, but none have given any commitment to vote against it (apart from one Labour MP with a majority of 93). Labour and the SNP could kill this election dead tomorrow if they had the guts to do so.

I guess if you're a labour MP then your job isn't exactly enjoyable at the moment. If there's a snap election and you get voted out from your seat you can find something morerewarding, and if you get to keep your seat you get to be in on the ground floor of new new Labour

rick_chasey

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

surrey_commuter

mrfpb wrote:

May seems good at being tight lipped about her plans. You have to judge her by her actions. She has put forward a hard Brexit plan, and she has used Labour votes to get past the pro-Remain Tories who wanted to back the Lord's amendments on Article 50.

Of course, I could be wrong and she may rip up all her statements so far on Brexit and put forward a manifesto commitment to a Kleenex-soft Brexit that even SC and Mambo will sign up to, but I very much doubt it.

FWIW I think that she believes that it is her duty to deliver Brexit. I do not believe that she thinks hard Brexit will be good for the UK. This I believe is the doing of the nutters and the GE gives her the opportunity to reduce their influence.

You know I think that Brexit is an act of economic vandalism - I would not put my name to any version.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

rick_chasey

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

I didn't realise you had to quit if you held the govt to serve a full fixed term.

Surely if you're a labour MP and you're worried Corbyn will lose you your seat you won't vote this through?

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

I didn't realise you had to quit if you held the govt to serve a full fixed term.

Surely if you're a labour MP and you're worried Corbyn will lose you your seat you won't vote this through?

Some might be ambivalent to losing rather than quitting

bendertherobot

Daily mail front page.......

mamba80

bendertherobot wrote:

Daily mail front page.......

thats democracy for you and one we can all unite behind.......

i guess that labour etc have no choice but to support a GE, not to do so but then lose the vote would be even worse if thats even possible?

Jez mon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

I didn't realise you had to quit if you held the govt to serve a full fixed term.

Surely if you're a labour MP and you're worried Corbyn will lose you your seat you won't vote this through?

If labour don't vote this through they'll have been seen to bottle it, Corbyn will struggle through until 2020 and they'll get defeated then. Possibly an even heavier defeat.

If you're a centrist labour MP and you want to get rid of Corbyn ASAP, then the snap election gives you that chance.

Lookyhere

Jez mon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

I didn't realise you had to quit if you held the govt to serve a full fixed term.

Surely if you're a labour MP and you're worried Corbyn will lose you your seat you won't vote this through?

If labour don't vote this through they'll have been seen to bottle it, Corbyn will struggle through until 2020 and they'll get defeated then. Possibly an even heavier defeat.

If you're a centrist labour MP and you want to get rid of Corbyn ASAP, then the snap election gives you that chance.

Stupid move by Labour to support this, suicide in fact, realities of Brexit and downward changes in the economy will mean things wont always be so bad for Labour or the Libdems.

Ok all this will still happen and they ll have to be another GE in 2023 but should Labour be crushed, they wont have the local support or the funds to contest a national poll again, look at the Libdems for that.

The investigation into MPs funding is another reason not to support this GE move, now it will all be swept under the carpet, with at most a few fines for people no longer involved.

lostboysaint

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I think TM, whatever you think of her , actually believes in the rights of the people..especially re BREXIT, whether she voted stay or go, she does seem determined to see through what we voted for...so, power to her in that respect.

Oh yeah, she believes in the rights of the people. Let's have a look at her voting record........ which should also have been amended to say "2016 - says that we need a period of stability so there'll be no election until 2020 at the earliest" "2017 - calls for general election"

She's the British Erdogan, she's a fucking swivel-eyed christian fundamentalist madwoman who sees the opportunity to create the biggest majority she's ever likely to see in order to force her unpalatable policies onto anyone who isn't a party donor or a member of the Elite. The rest of the country can eat shit like it normally has to.

Jez mon

Lookyhere wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

I didn't realise you had to quit if you held the govt to serve a full fixed term.

Surely if you're a labour MP and you're worried Corbyn will lose you your seat you won't vote this through?

If labour don't vote this through they'll have been seen to bottle it, Corbyn will struggle through until 2020 and they'll get defeated then. Possibly an even heavier defeat.

If you're a centrist labour MP and you want to get rid of Corbyn ASAP, then the snap election gives you that chance.

Stupid move by Labour to support this, suicide in fact, realities of Brexit and downward changes in the economy will mean things wont always be so bad for Labour or the Libdems.

Ok all this will still happen and they ll have to be another GE in 2023 but should Labour be crushed, they wont have the local support or the funds to contest a national poll again, look at the Libdems for that.

The investigation into MPs funding is another reason not to support this GE move, now it will all be swept under the carpet, with at most a few fines for people no longer involved.

OK, so say labour vote down the election...

Now as well as having a leader who is not exactly wildly popular, they are accused of running scared.

So far labour haven't come up with a clear message on the EU, they didn't manage to get their message across well during the referendum either, so any economic pain down the line which gets pined on Brexit doesn't necessarily lead to extra labour votes.

bianchimoon

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I think TM, whatever you think of her , actually believes in the rights of the people..especially re BREXIT, whether she voted stay or go, she does seem determined to see through what we voted for...so, power to her in that respect.
She clearly wants her own mandate to be PM, the job as it stands was given to her by Dodgy Dave, and being realistic, she wants it to be her job, won on her ticket, can't blame her for that.We have had enough "back door" PMs in the last 30yrs, we inherited Gordon Brown, who it would now appear was handed the job by Blair once Blair realised he had made a complete dogs breakfast of it, so winning in your own name has to be part of the reason TM has called it.
Personally, I can't see past a landslide Tory victory..not because it's the best thing all round....but in all truthfulness, would you entrust the no doubt very stormy waters of the Brexit negotiations to Labour? I wouldn't even like to consider that as an option, even as a joke!!

more likely she realises that the final brexit deal will be damaging for Britain in the short/med/long term. Hence making the party that concluded it unpopular and have no chance of a majority in what should have been the 2020 election.

Lookyhere

Jez mon wrote:

OK, so say labour vote down the election...

Now as well as having a leader who is not exactly wildly popular, they are accused of running scared.

So far labour haven't come up with a clear message on the EU, they didn't manage to get their message across well during the referendum either, so any economic pain down the line which gets pined on Brexit doesn't necessarily lead to extra labour votes.

Yes i do see where you are coming from BUT the opposition, should (now and again) oppose, esp when its in their best interests to do so.
Agree their msg on Brexit is terrible at best.
Opinion polls might not be 100% but Labour are heading for a pasting from which they may never recover. how is that helping them?

by going along with the Tories, they are ensuring May will have absolutely zero problems getting her vision of Brexit through, the voting record above shows where she sits on social reform and she is clearly a hardened but clever right winger.

Sure they ll be accused of "running scared" but can then quote back the numerous speeches May has given on why she would never call a GE, she happy to have her trust called into question, such is her confidence in how incapable Labour are ..... also once the realities of Brexit start hitting home, who knows what the british might think of the Tories?

surrey_commuter

Jez mon wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Shouldn't be voting through the snap election then.

Don't you get better severance terms if you lose rather than quitting?

I didn't realise you had to quit if you held the govt to serve a full fixed term.

Surely if you're a labour MP and you're worried Corbyn will lose you your seat you won't vote this through?

If labour don't vote this through they'll have been seen to bottle it, Corbyn will struggle through until 2020 and they'll get defeated then. Possibly an even heavier defeat.

If you're a centrist labour MP and you want to get rid of Corbyn ASAP, then the snap election gives you that chance.

Stupid move by Labour to support this, suicide in fact, realities of Brexit and downward changes in the economy will mean things wont always be so bad for Labour or the Libdems.

Ok all this will still happen and they ll have to be another GE in 2023 but should Labour be crushed, they wont have the local support or the funds to contest a national poll again, look at the Libdems for that.

The investigation into MPs funding is another reason not to support this GE move, now it will all be swept under the carpet, with at most a few fines for people no longer involved.

OK, so say labour vote down the election...

Now as well as having a leader who is not exactly wildly popular, they are accused of running scared.

So far labour haven't come up with a clear message on the EU, they didn't manage to get their message across well during the referendum either, so any economic pain down the line which gets pined on Brexit doesn't necessarily lead to extra labour votes.

Labour should have made it a point of principle not to vote for reversing legislation for political expediency. It is highly unlikely things will look as bad for them in 2020 as they do now (certainly no worse) as everybody is likely to be p1ssed off with the Brexit outcome. Also doing what your opponent least wants you to do is rarely a bad idea.

rolf_f

Well that whole fixed term thing lasted a long time didn't it?!

Interesting that it requires a 2/3 majority of a presumably knowledgeable subgroup of voters to over-rule the triviality of changing the election date but leaving the EU only needs a 50-50 of people whose knowledge of the issues ranges from excellent to completely ignorant.

lostboysaint

Please remember that "other people" includes your children, parents, grandparents etc.

bompington

lostboysaint wrote:

Please remember that "other people" includes your children, parents, grandparents etc.

You know, one of the things I used to like about this forum was that most posters didn't just think in simplistic clichés :roll:

kingstongraham

Mr Goo wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

yep, would nt normally agree with you but to me, TM is a hard line brexitier, she wants a bigger majority to pursue her vision of the UK (totally) out of Europe.
there is no solace in a TM government, only more sidelining and exclusion.

May was a remain supporter.

really?

Really. Although not that vocal on the subject.

http://www.conservativehome.com/parliam ... -text.html

"The reality is that we do not know on what terms we would win access to the single market. We do know that in a negotiation we would need to make concessions in order to access it, and those concessions could well be about accepting EU regulations, over which we would have no say, making financial contributions, just as we do now, accepting free movement rules, just as we do now, or quite possibly all three combined. It is not clear why other EU member states would give Britain a better deal than they themselves enjoy."

But I think we've done that already.

kingstongraham

lostboysaint wrote:

Please remember that "other people" includes your children, parents, grandparents etc.

Thanks - have you got one for Corbyn?

I assume the first question would be "Are you deranged?".

lostboysaint

bompington wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

Please remember that "other people" includes your children, parents, grandparents etc.

You know, one of the things I used to like about this forum was that most posters didn't just think in simplistic clichés :roll:

Unfortunately this election is all about simplistic cliches and it's going to be as divisive as it gets. Let's hope we'll all be on the right side of it then shall we rather than caring about what the result is likely to bring?