I'm Shunning discs.

bendertherobot

Veronese68 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

5-4?

Did I mention I love my discs and wouldn't go back to rim for every day use?

I've lost count of the score now but, Juin Tech on way home in rain, fab. Noisy today though (braking, not clicking). R685 better, clearly, but no guards on that bike.

itboffin

apreading wrote:

Is everyone shunning disk brakes on cars and going back to drums too?

yes

itboffin

homers double wrote:

I rode to Blackpool on Sunday in the wet, I might as well have scraped my cleats on the tarmac for all the good the rim brakes did.

but you still had an ice-cream when you got there right?

cookeeemonster

LETS PUT SOME RULES DOWN FOR FUTURE DISC 'DISCUSSIONS':

1. People with non-hydraulic disc brakes are NEVER, EVER ALLOWED TO GIVE THEIR OPINION, unless it's to say don't buy non hydraulic disc brakes (the trp partially hydro things may be an exception)

That's it.

rubertoe

itboffin wrote:

homers double wrote:

I rode to Blackpool on Sunday in the wet, I might as well have scraped my cleats on the tarmac for all the good the rim brakes did.

but you still had an ice-cream when you got there right?

and/or fish and chips.

apreading

CookeeeMonster wrote:

LETS PUT SOME RULES DOWN FOR FUTURE DISC 'DISCUSSIONS':

1. People with non-hydraulic disc brakes are NEVER, EVER ALLOWED TO GIVE THEIR OPINION, unless it's to say don't buy non hydraulic disc brakes (the trp partially hydro things may be an exception)

That's it.

This ^^^ +1million

veronese68

apreading wrote:

Is everyone shunning disk brakes on cars and going back to drums too?

Drums can be very powerful. Mate that is an MOT tester said easily the highest reading he'd ever seen on his brake tester was from a '56 Chevy with drums. So the drums are more than capable of locking the wheels, but they have other disadvantages. So drums are more than strong enough, that's not why people use discs. Sound familiar?

keef66

If I was buying a new road bike now I'd probably go for hydraulic discs if I could afford it and I wasn't having to compromise on some other aspect of the spec to get them.

I don't need them. I'm fairly light, don't do a lot of stop-start riding, rarely encounter long or steep descents, but I do ride in all weathers. I hate the sound of wheel rims being abraded when I brake in the wet, and occasionally those first few milliseconds of ineffective braking as the blocks clear the film of water scare me half to death, especially if I suddenly have to brake without warning.

I think the only thing that might put me off is the possibility of them squealing when wet. My wife's car does that if the weather is just damp, and it drives me potty when I drive it.
And I was scarred for life when doing the emergency stop in the playground during my cycling proficiency test; I was going at a fair old lick on my gas pipe half ton bike when I jammed the brakes on. The cheap rubber blocks on steel rims produced a protracted, glass-shattering scream that had the rest of the kids either doubled up laughing or cowering in fear.

bompington

CookeeeMonster wrote:

LETS PUT SOME RULES DOWN FOR FUTURE DISC 'DISCUSSIONS':

1. People with non-hydraulic disc brakes are NEVER, EVER ALLOWED TO GIVE THEIR OPINION, unless it's to say don't buy non hydraulic disc brakes (the trp partially hydro things may be an exception)

That's it.

I have non-hydraulic disc brakes.
1. They work.
2. I'll let you know how often I have to adjust/service them when I have to adjust/service them - which hasn't happened yet, the bike's only had a year and a half of abuse so far.

fat daddy

I have

(1) V-brakes
(2) non-hydraulic discs
(3) Rim calipers
(4) Hydraulic discs

as far as braking goes, I love Hydraulic discs, they are just better in all respects in my opinion ... the wheels weigh more though and are sluggish compared to a pair of light weight rim ready wheels

so If the day is all about acceleration it has to be the rim brakes. If it looks like rain, or I fancy cutting across the fields or am commuting, then its one of the disc brakes ... naturally hydro is in a different league to the mech discs .... in the same way the mech discs are in a different league to the rim brakes in adverse conditions.

now my single speed CX bike has v's at the back and a mech disc at the front .... the v- brakes are great until you hit the first bit of mud, then you might as well not bother, how the hell people race with rim brakes in CX I never know .. I guess when you race, not braking makes you quicker

The Rookie

bompington wrote:

I have non-hydraulic disc brakes.
1. They work.
2. I'll let you know how often I have to adjust/service them when I have to adjust/service them - which hasn't happened yet, the bike's only had a year and a half of abuse so far.

My commuter was on the same cable disc brakes for circa 6 years and 6000miles, yes they needed a 30 second adjustment about once a month to keep the pad clearance tight for best performance. They would lift the back wheel under braking so I'm not sure I needed any more power.

I've now swapped them off as that much salty water and crud has finally wrecked the internals (noting they were bought used in the first instance) to the point where they were no longer salvageable. My daughter has the exact same calipers on her MTB. I've gone hydraulic as the ones I got were cheaper than new decent cable discs (the advantage of flat bars).

meanredspider

Rhodrich wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

If you are
a. The weight of an anorexic schoolgirl or
b. Ride exclusively on the flat or
c. Only ride in the dry or
d. A total mechanical numpty
(Preferably 2 of the above) then rim brakes are adequate.

My Foil had rim brakes and 53/39 crank 12-23 cassette. I rode in N Holland. I'm a huge fan of disc brakes - they ARE the future - but in those circumstances (i.e. Almost no need to brake) then I was fine with the Foil. Tried using it to commute in the Cotswolds - bought the Jamis.

I think you must be doing something wrong. Given that the vast majority of cyclists in the world use rim brakes of some description, and stop perfectly adequately, in the wet or the dry, then then there can be no question as to their adequacy. Even the rim brakes on my tandem do a perfectly good job, and that's with chrome rims.

Nope - not doing anything wrong - just applying physics. Sure people have been using rim brakes forever but "stopping perfectly adequately, in the wet" I would challenge. Let's face it - why would anybody bother with discs or suggest that the wet braking was loads better if rim brakes were "perfectly adequate". I know my moment of epiphany came as I was descending a rainy steep twisty hill on a single track road and I came face-to-face with a tractor armed with myriad spiky bits. Applied the brakes and nothing much happened for a couple of revolutions. I was at the point of deciding which ditch looked more "comfortable". That's not "adequate".

The point with good braking is that you want to maximise the grip that the (front) tyre has. That grip isn't a constant but varies with load. As you apply more brake you get more load and you get more grip - it's a virtuous circle. But you can only effectively do that if the braking force is predictable. Rim brakes in the wet are only predictable insofar as they aren't predictable.

Now it's at this point rim brakists just say you should go slower. If I go slow enough, I can brake with the soles of my shoes. Does that make shoe soles "adequate"?

cookeeemonster

bompington wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

LETS PUT SOME RULES DOWN FOR FUTURE DISC 'DISCUSSIONS':

1. People with non-hydraulic disc brakes are NEVER, EVER ALLOWED TO GIVE THEIR OPINION, unless it's to say don't buy non hydraulic disc brakes (the trp partially hydro things may be an exception)

That's it.

I have non-hydraulic disc brakes.
1. They work.
2. I'll let you know how often I have to adjust/service them when I have to adjust/service them - which hasn't happened yet, the bike's only had a year and a half of abuse so far.

Fair play. I put the above because 99.9% of all the negative comments from people who have tried discs seem to come from mechanical disc brake users.

The only other real world disadvantage I can see for hydro discs is the extra weight and price. I expect this to be solved at some point in the coming years

kingpinsam

meanredspider wrote:

Rhodrich wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

If you are
a. The weight of an anorexic schoolgirl or
b. Ride exclusively on the flat or
c. Only ride in the dry or
d. A total mechanical numpty
(Preferably 2 of the above) then rim brakes are adequate.

My Foil had rim brakes and 53/39 crank 12-23 cassette. I rode in N Holland. I'm a huge fan of disc brakes - they ARE the future - but in those circumstances (i.e. Almost no need to brake) then I was fine with the Foil. Tried using it to commute in the Cotswolds - bought the Jamis.

I think you must be doing something wrong. Given that the vast majority of cyclists in the world use rim brakes of some description, and stop perfectly adequately, in the wet or the dry, then then there can be no question as to their adequacy. Even the rim brakes on my tandem do a perfectly good job, and that's with chrome rims.

Nope - not doing anything wrong - just applying physics. Sure people have been using rim brakes forever but "stopping perfectly adequately, in the wet" I would challenge. Let's face it - why would anybody bother with discs or suggest that the wet braking was loads better if rim brakes were "perfectly adequate". I know my moment of epiphany came as I was descending a rainy steep twisty hill on a single track road and I came face-to-face with a tractor armed with myriad spiky bits. Applied the brakes and nothing much happened for a couple of revolutions. I was at the point of deciding which ditch looked more "comfortable". That's not "adequate".

The point with good braking is that you want to maximise the grip that the (front) tyre has. That grip isn't a constant but varies with load. As you apply more brake you get more load and you get more grip - it's a virtuous circle. But you can only effectively do that if the braking force is predictable. Rim brakes in the wet are only predictable insofar as they aren't predictable.

Now it's at this point rim brakists just say you should go slower. If I go slow enough, I can brake with the soles of my shoes. Does that make shoe soles "adequate"?

Yep agreed, anyone who thinks rims are adequate in all conditions clearly isn't riding in all conditions!

N0bodyOfTheGoat

This morning, in the dry, I randomly decided to give my Felt F5C a once over and use it for the first time in almost 12 months. Just a quick ride around the block and a trip to the shops, as every carbon drop bar bike is meant for.

The Bontrager Speed Limit rim brakes worked a treat, but then they've only done ~300 miles since being fitted in ~2010, loads better than the default Shimanos they replaced!

What did feel odd and quite unnerving was the very stretched out feel to reach the hoods, despite the 100(?)mm 35 degree stem to shorten reach and raise the bars up to help my lower back. Must have been a good ~15cm reach beyond my Wazoo setup, very conscious of leading with my head, bringing back memories of my Tricross rim brake failure RTA on 23/12/2013.

Fractured maxilla; two broken metacarpals; two teeth knocked out (including one of the front upper incisors); countless chipped teeth; split upper lip (from the exit path of my front tooth that came out in pieces). Wearing a denture most of the day and the annoyance of that missing front tooth with the bulging upper lip stitches repair is a constant reminder of how vulnerable I am on a bike.

If I was buying a new road/adventure drop bar speed demon bike, it would have to come with "proper" hydraulics, or be at such a bargain price that upgrading to hydraulics kept the overall price good.

I've been window shopping recently, but as much as I suspect my Felt is really one size too small for me (54cm frame, for 5'10" with short ~31.5" legs and a long torso typical of someone ~6'1" or so), this morning's random ride made me realise I still have demons to slay from that ride over three years ago on a drop bar bike.

homers_double

itboffin wrote:

homers double wrote:

I rode to Blackpool on Sunday in the wet, I might as well have scraped my cleats on the tarmac for all the good the rim brakes did.

but you still had an ice-cream when you got there right?

Cold pastie and a coffee I'm afraid. A very prro effort.

fenix

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

meanredspider

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Nothing - because, if this was marketing, and it's taken 6 years to get this far, they'll all have been fired.

bendertherobot

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Electro magnetic braking and shifting.

keef66

bendertherobot wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Electro magnetic braking and shifting.

Now you're talking! harvesting the energy from braking to feed back in to the propulsion system on the next climb.

meanredspider

keef66 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Electro magnetic braking and shifting.

Now you're talking! harvesting the energy from braking to feed back in to the propulsion system on the next climb.

Doesn't that already exist?

secretsam

I'm fat. Therefore slow everywhere except downhill.

Set a PB on Strava on a descent on new hydro-disc bike. Love them, control and braking superb. Seriously considering discs should I replace the best bike

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

keef66 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Electro magnetic braking and shifting.

Now you're talking! harvesting the energy from braking to feed back in to the propulsion system on the next climb.

Doesn't that already exist?

On pedal bikes?

There's this: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/pro ... kph-211660

Though that seems to be all about the propulsion rather than an energy collection system. Shouldn't be too hard, I guess?

veronese68

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Exactly, that's why I still ride a bike with solid tyres, wood rims, cork brake blocks and no gears. :roll:

hopkinb

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Quantum braking and shifting. You can be slowing down and accelerating at the same time. Or in both the big and little rings simultaneously.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

keef66 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Its all marketing I think. What are the marketeers planning NEXT once we've all bought disc bikes ?

Electro magnetic braking and shifting.

Now you're talking! harvesting the energy from braking to feed back in to the propulsion system on the next climb.

Doesn't that already exist?

On pedal bikes?

There's this: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/pro ... kph-211660

Though that seems to be all about the propulsion rather than an energy collection system. Shouldn't be too hard, I guess?

Yes - on a push bike. I think it might be a Dutch invention - "solid" white wheel that could be retrofitted. I'll see if I can find a link.

ETA - its like the "Copenhagen wheel" which also has regenerative braking. Can't find it just now.

NeXXus

Ok, good for you, pat on the back etc etc etc

bendertherobot

1200 dollars for rim brakes on the Copenhagen. Not bad mind. It'll come down.

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

1200 dollars for rim brakes on the Copenhagen. Not bad mind. It'll come down.

I thought the Copenhagen used back-pedal braking? After all, what was wrong with that? Perfectly adequate for most of 700,000 Amsterdammers

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

1200 dollars for rim brakes on the Copenhagen. Not bad mind. It'll come down.

I thought the Copenhagen used back-pedal braking? After all, what was wrong with that? Perfectly adequate for most of 700,000 Amsterdammers

Had that on my Raleigh Strika. (I don't think it's about using rim brakes, just that they've not got a disc hub solution yet)