Poo tin... Put@in...

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited March 2022
    Hey Bally, was was Manafort doing in Ukraine?

    Go look up Manafort’s aides Kilomnik and Gates
    _
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Ukrainian's repurposing all that captured equipment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYSdzUs3cQ
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I'm not convinced
    thegreatdivide said:

    Ukrainian's repurposing all that captured equipment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYSdzUs3cQ

    is it not the case that Ukraine really needs to keep up this level of Russian attrition because, proportionally, they're being worn down at roughly the same rate?

    I know it's a crazy amount of kit, but aren't the Russians a sort of "mass" army anyway, ie. big number is what they do.
    _
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    rick_chasey said:

    Hey Bally, was was Manafort doing in Ukraine?

    Go look up Manafort’s aides Kilomnik and Gates

    So you are saying that Trump's dealings with the Russians, corrupt as they were, were responsible for keeping Putin's troops out of Ukraine?
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Anyone who thinks that Trump would have taken a tougher stance on Russia is kidding themselves. Trump did not care about others and the America population does not want another foreign war so he would have done nothing. He might even have been less tough on sanctions to save a Russian hotel he owned or something stupid like that. He managed little to nothing in his time in office other than to demean that office.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited March 2022
    ballysmate said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Hey Bally, was was Manafort doing in Ukraine?

    Go look up Manafort’s aides Kilomnik and Gates

    So you are saying that Trump's dealings with the Russians, corrupt as they were, were responsible for keeping Putin's troops out of Ukraine?
    Trump's lot, and Trump himself I'd consider allies of Putin (in a state that was not), and they were quite happy to help Putin's aims in Ukraine in the shadows.

    Given until today Trump was praising Putin, well after the invasion happened (the Russians even use Trump interviews in their state media news items...!), do you really think Putin would not have invaded Ukraine with Trump in charge?

    I tell you what, Trump would not have led NATO like the Biden administration has and marshalled the rest of the members and the EU to step up the sanctions. That is not in his, nor his administration's, capabilities.

    I get that you hate Biden and Kamila, a lot of right wingers seem to, and I think it's fair to say Biden has made a number of errors, both tactical and strategic, but when it comes to Ukraine and the response, the US has absolutely led the non-tyrannical world from the front and has made the invasion extra costly.

    No way would Trump do anything other than high five Putin for being a strong man. Trump loathes democracies.

    Trump is in a different league of bad. He's currently campaigning for a law to allow the US president to remove anyone in any administration at their will.

    He regularly praised Putin and is widely considered to be an ally of his.

    He and his aides helped Putin try to achieve his aims in Ukraine.

    Trump staged an attempted coup in the US to overturn an election result.

    Trump regularly praises tyrants who subjegate, abuse and steal from their own people and regularly hits out at leaders of democracies.

    Trump is a wannabe despot and desperately sought Putin's approval.

    Trump is two orders of magnitude worse than Biden.

    You are being wilfully blind if you can't see that.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,137
    He said on fox yesterday that although it was wrong, Putin did this out of love for his country.

    Lepoards and spots.

    Truth is the timing has little to do with the US or anywhere else, and more to do with covid. Firstly, it has isolated Putin from the world and from common sense and secondly he has probably advised the world, and the west, is preoccupied and weakened by it.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    rick_chasey said:

    I'm not convinced

    thegreatdivide said:

    Ukrainian's repurposing all that captured equipment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYSdzUs3cQ

    is it not the case that Ukraine really needs to keep up this level of Russian attrition because, proportionally, they're being worn down at roughly the same rate?

    I know it's a crazy amount of kit, but aren't the Russians a sort of "mass" army anyway, ie. big number is what they do.
    Not sure what you mean by 'not convinced'. You're not convinced about Ukrainians repurposing lost Russian weapons? Or that Russia is losing lots of kit?

    From looking at something like Oryx's tally, it's clear to see that materiel losses are massive on the Russian side, be it from destruction or from Russia just being pants. That entire column of mud stuck and abandoned (and very expensive) T-80 tanks I posted above for example. The Ukrainian John Deer Brigade will have those out in no time.

    Russia have to resupply themselves - and they are having a mare trying to do that - but Ukraine has tens of thousands of hand held rockets streaming in from the West and that doesn't look like it's going to stop any time soon.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Forget the "not convinced" it was a post to a different post - this bloody new feature is so annoying.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,137
    rick_chasey said:

    Forget the "not convinced" it was a post to a different post - this bloody new feature is so annoying.

    It really is. Imagine if emails worked this way?
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Forget the "not convinced" it was a post to a different post - this bloody new feature is so annoying.

    It really is. Imagine if emails worked this way?
    It has the potential for a Bike Radar version of the Two Ronnie's Mastermind sketch where every answer is to the previous question.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,529
    ballysmate said:

    rjsterry said:

    ..

    ballysmate said:

    kingstongraham said:

    ballysmate said:

    briantrumpet said:

    ballysmate said:

    .

    briantrumpet said:

    Haha. Nice tweet. Can't think why Trump wasn't sanctioned too 🤔

    'tis a strange one, yep.
    Wonder why Putin didn't invade when he allegedly had POTUS in his pocket?
    Unless of course he felt that an inept Biden presented a better opportunity than a compromised Trump?

    My uninformed hunch is he was hoping for more fracturing of western alliances (NATO, EU), especially had Trump got a second term, but that not having played out, he gave up waiting, and crossed his fingers.
    You could be right, who knows?
    Or he could have thought that all of his stars had aligned when Biden got elected and KH was 'his' choice as VP.
    You did hear trump talk about nato?


    Which makes it all the more remarkable that Putin didn't go for it when The Donald was POTUS but saw a better opportunity with Biden don't you think?

    The evidence of the lack of preparation and the absurd expectations that Ukrainians would welcome their invaders make it clear Putin is getting lots of bad advice. In that context trying to read the invasion as a comparative assessment of Trump and Biden feels a little ridiculous.
    Tbh it was just a tongue in cheek reply to Brian's joke that Trump hadn't been sanctioned. But my, aren't people keen to quash any suggestion that any facet of Biden's presidency could be inferior to Trump.

    The lack of preparation is just Russian incompetence. Putin didn't just decide on a whim to invade. Something made him think the time was right.
    After he invaded Crimea in 2014, he would have had eyes on Ukraine. That is why countries like Canada and the UK set up the likes of Ops Unifier and Orbital respectively to train Ukrainian forces.
    But something stopped him invading between 2016 and 2020 didn't it, I wonder what it was. (Don't worry, tongue is still firmly in cheek)

    But the messages coming from America have not been good have they? From the clusterfuck that was the withdrawal from Afghanistan to Sleepy Joe telling the world that a limited incursion into Ukraine would be acceptable and stating publicly that there are no red lines for the Russians. eg chemical weapons.


    Then we have Kamala being sent to Poland to smooth things over after their Mig proposal rejected.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJbuFMpnio&ab_channel=TheTelegraph

    Hope she had her Tena Lady pull up pants on.
    Starting to think you have a crush on her or something. Go and throw darts at a picture of Biden and Harris. Whatever it takes to get it out of your system.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    rick_chasey said:

    ballysmate said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Hey Bally, was was Manafort doing in Ukraine?

    Go look up Manafort’s aides Kilomnik and Gates

    So you are saying that Trump's dealings with the Russians, corrupt as they were, were responsible for keeping Putin's troops out of Ukraine?
    A lot.
    No blinkers in regards to Trump at all. He is everything people say he is.

    Biden was a place man, chosen with the sole purpose to beat Trump. Even Obama didn't rate him. Harris was chosen to tick boxes.

    Would Ukraine have been better off with a corrupt POTUS rather than an inept one? Who knows.



  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,529
    ballysmate said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Hey Bally, was was Manafort doing in Ukraine?

    Go look up Manafort’s aides Kilomnik and Gates

    So you are saying that Trump's dealings with the Russians, corrupt as they were, were responsible for keeping Putin's troops out of Ukraine?
    He was already in Ukraine before Trump was elected ffs.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    rjsterry said:

    ..

    ballysmate said:

    kingstongraham said:

    ballysmate said:

    briantrumpet said:

    ballysmate said:

    .

    briantrumpet said:

    Haha. Nice tweet. Can't think why Trump wasn't sanctioned too 🤔

    'tis a strange one, yep.
    Wonder why Putin didn't invade when he allegedly had POTUS in his pocket?
    Unless of course he felt that an inept Biden presented a better opportunity than a compromised Trump?

    My uninformed hunch is he was hoping for more fracturing of western alliances (NATO, EU), especially had Trump got a second term, but that not having played out, he gave up waiting, and crossed his fingers.
    You could be right, who knows?
    Or he could have thought that all of his stars had aligned when Biden got elected and KH was 'his' choice as VP.
    You did hear trump talk about nato?


    Which makes it all the more remarkable that Putin didn't go for it when The Donald was POTUS but saw a better opportunity with Biden don't you think?

    The evidence of the lack of preparation and the absurd expectations that Ukrainians would welcome their invaders make it clear Putin is getting lots of bad advice. In that context trying to read the invasion as a comparative assessment of Trump and Biden feels a little ridiculous.
    Tbh it was just a tongue in cheek reply to Brian's joke that Trump hadn't been sanctioned. But my, aren't people keen to quash any suggestion that any facet of Biden's presidency could be inferior to Trump.

    The lack of preparation is just Russian incompetence. Putin didn't just decide on a whim to invade. Something made him think the time was right.
    After he invaded Crimea in 2014, he would have had eyes on Ukraine. That is why countries like Canada and the UK set up the likes of Ops Unifier and Orbital respectively to train Ukrainian forces.
    But something stopped him invading between 2016 and 2020 didn't it, I wonder what it was. (Don't worry, tongue is still firmly in cheek)

    But the messages coming from America have not been good have they? From the clusterfuck that was the withdrawal from Afghanistan to Sleepy Joe telling the world that a limited incursion into Ukraine would be acceptable and stating publicly that there are no red lines for the Russians. eg chemical weapons.


    Then we have Kamala being sent to Poland to smooth things over after their Mig proposal rejected.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJbuFMpnio&ab_channel=TheTelegraph

    Hope she had her Tena Lady pull up pants on.
    Starting to think you have a crush on her or something. Go and throw darts at a picture of Biden and Harris. Whatever it takes to get it out of your system.
    Imagine the reaction on here if Liz Truss has peed her pants laughing when asked about refugees. ;)
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,529
    First.Aspect said:

    He said on fox yesterday that although it was wrong, Putin did this out of love for his country.

    Lepoards and spots.

    Truth is the timing has little to do with the US or anywhere else, and more to do with covid. Firstly, it has isolated Putin from the world and from common sense and secondly he has probably advised the world, and the west, is preoccupied and weakened by it.

    You could convincingly argue that the farce of the US and UK withdrawal from Afghanistan made it look unlikely that the West would get involved.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    rjsterry said:

    First.Aspect said:

    He said on fox yesterday that although it was wrong, Putin did this out of love for his country.

    Lepoards and spots.

    Truth is the timing has little to do with the US or anywhere else, and more to do with covid. Firstly, it has isolated Putin from the world and from common sense and secondly he has probably advised the world, and the west, is preoccupied and weakened by it.

    You could convincingly argue that the farce of the US and UK withdrawal from Afghanistan made it look unlikely that the West would get involved.
    I thought Trump set that in motion anyway?
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,115
    ballysmate said:



    Would Ukraine have been better off with a corrupt POTUS rather than an inept one? Who knows.



    It wasn't an either/or.

    I think the answer is no, but it remains to be seen what happens from here on. They would probably have been left to fend for themselves to a larger extent without someone in the white house who wants international cooperation.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,115
    For all the talking, America's priority is not the people of Ukraine.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    ballysmate said:

    rjsterry said:

    ballysmate said:

    rjsterry said:

    ..

    ballysmate said:

    kingstongraham said:

    ballysmate said:

    briantrumpet said:

    ballysmate said:

    .

    briantrumpet said:

    Haha. Nice tweet. Can't think why Trump wasn't sanctioned too 🤔

    'tis a strange one, yep.
    Wonder why Putin didn't invade when he allegedly had POTUS in his pocket?
    Unless of course he felt that an inept Biden presented a better opportunity than a compromised Trump?

    My uninformed hunch is he was hoping for more fracturing of western alliances (NATO, EU), especially had Trump got a second term, but that not having played out, he gave up waiting, and crossed his fingers.
    You could be right, who knows?
    Or he could have thought that all of his stars had aligned when Biden got elected and KH was 'his' choice as VP.
    You did hear trump talk about nato?


    Which makes it all the more remarkable that Putin didn't go for it when The Donald was POTUS but saw a better opportunity with Biden don't you think?

    The evidence of the lack of preparation and the absurd expectations that Ukrainians would welcome their invaders make it clear Putin is getting lots of bad advice. In that context trying to read the invasion as a comparative assessment of Trump and Biden feels a little ridiculous.
    Tbh it was just a tongue in cheek reply to Brian's joke that Trump hadn't been sanctioned. But my, aren't people keen to quash any suggestion that any facet of Biden's presidency could be inferior to Trump.

    The lack of preparation is just Russian incompetence. Putin didn't just decide on a whim to invade. Something made him think the time was right.
    After he invaded Crimea in 2014, he would have had eyes on Ukraine. That is why countries like Canada and the UK set up the likes of Ops Unifier and Orbital respectively to train Ukrainian forces.
    But something stopped him invading between 2016 and 2020 didn't it, I wonder what it was. (Don't worry, tongue is still firmly in cheek)

    But the messages coming from America have not been good have they? From the clusterfuck that was the withdrawal from Afghanistan to Sleepy Joe telling the world that a limited incursion into Ukraine would be acceptable and stating publicly that there are no red lines for the Russians. eg chemical weapons.


    Then we have Kamala being sent to Poland to smooth things over after their Mig proposal rejected.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJbuFMpnio&ab_channel=TheTelegraph

    Hope she had her Tena Lady pull up pants on.
    Starting to think you have a crush on her or something. Go and throw darts at a picture of Biden and Harris. Whatever it takes to get it out of your system.
    Imagine the reaction on here if Liz Truss has peed her pants laughing when asked about refugees. ;)
    I have no axe to grind in an American politcal debate so this is meant as well meaning advice.

    Rather than reading the dealines around the video you should watch it as it does not relate to what you think it does
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,137
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    First.Aspect said:

    He said on fox yesterday that although it was wrong, Putin did this out of love for his country.

    Lepoards and spots.

    Truth is the timing has little to do with the US or anywhere else, and more to do with covid. Firstly, it has isolated Putin from the world and from common sense and secondly he has probably advised the world, and the west, is preoccupied and weakened by it.

    You could convincingly argue that the farce of the US and UK withdrawal from Afghanistan made it look unlikely that the West would get involved.
    I thought Trump set that in motion anyway?
    Was regarded as an indication that the west was divided, so yes did contribute to the timing.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    kingstongraham said:

    For all the talking, America's priority is not the people of Ukraine.

    I am amazed how little understanding there is and discussion in our media. There is no will amongst the US electorate to put boots on the ground in Ukraine
  • johngti
    johngti Posts: 2,508
    There’s a kid missing from my class who’s family is Ukrainian and who still has close relatives in the east of the country. They can’t get out. Poor kid is in pieces. War is fuckingshit, which I know is an obvious thing to say but there you are.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    .
    johngti said:

    There’s a kid missing from my class who’s family is Ukrainian and who still has close relatives in the east of the country. They can’t get out. Poor kid is in pieces. War is fuckingshit, which I know is an obvious thing to say but there you are.

    this 100%

    this is the fuckingpriority, not bickering over that scum Trump or Biden.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,299
    At least Biden isn't a gun slinging egoist, eager to flex American muscle and he has to be measured in his approach so as not to elevate the conflict.
    Trump would have been in way over his head and apathetic (he was anyway as POTUS) or reacting in a way that could have been potentially provocative.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,307
    pinno said:

    At least Biden isn't a gun slinging egoist, eager to flex American muscle and he has to be measured in his approach so as not to elevate the conflict.
    Trump would have been in way over his head and apathetic (he was anyway as POTUS) or reacting in a way that could have been potentially provocative.

    Agreed. He'd be at one end of the spectrum.
    Not one U.S. dollar/life. Or, I'm the biggest baddest mofo.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
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  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2022
    Once upon a time, when Boris was foreign secretary, in a town called Salisbury…..

    https://mobile.twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1503797346580238336
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644

    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    thegreatdivide said:


    The losses are racking up.

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