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  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,116
    edited March 2022
    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    It's interesting that Russia has allegedly asked China for help with military equipment. Whether or not China helps out remains to be seen (I'm swaying towards not helping) . However this reaffirms the consensus that Russia is militarily f*cked now. It has enough dumb weapons for the time being to pound down more buildings and create misery, but as a fighting force it's hurting a lot.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,314
    thegreatdivide said:

    It's interesting that Russia has allegedly asked China for help with military equipment. Whether or not China helps out remains to be seen (I'm swaying towards not helping) . However this reaffirms the consensus that Russia is militarily f*cked now. It has enough dumb weapons for the time being to pound down more buildings and create misery, but as a fighting force it's hurting a lot.

    China have responded by saying these claims are disinformation.
    I have no idea where the sliding scale is but both sides use propaganda.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,133
    Could always try looking at a map.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    kingstonian said:

    Really is horrendous to see the images of residential districts across Ukraine having been shelled to bits. Incredible to remember how at the beginning of Russia’s invasion they had the gall to say they were only targeting military installations. We all knew it was garbage, but to stand up in front of the world and say it just shows how little respect they have for general decency.

    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    There does seem to be a disconnect between laughing at Russian military incompetence and on the other hand an expectation that they can and should be targeting individual buildings in urban areas.

    I am not victim blaming but if you arm the civilian population and turn cities into fortresses then this is the outcome. In fact this is just the beginning and as the power, water, medical supplies and food runs out it will get a lot worse.

    The history books concentrate on the military outcome of the heroic defence of Stalingrad and Leningrad but the suffering of the civilian population was horrendous
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,145
    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,145
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Fear is also human nature. Fear of anyone different.

    The west has been bombarded with negative connotations of anything Islam related for at least 20 years now, by its media.


  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    They are now suggesting that we pull together as a road to house as many refugees as possible. I guess it is possible that I was left out of the similar planning that they did for previous refugee crises
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Ukraine was a country trying to remove itself from gangster politics and corruption through democracy. Syria and Afghanistan are essentially religiously motivated dictatorships. You can't help the later. So yes the response is just a mirror as to how most view Arabs and what they stand for against a more Western philosophy that is a Ukrainian. The West cannot help the middle east as they don't share any of the same values.

  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Ukraine was a country trying to remove itself from gangster politics and corruption through democracy. Syria and Afghanistan are essentially religiously motivated dictatorships. You can't help the later. So yes the response is just a mirror as to how most view Arabs and what they stand for against a more Western philosophy that is a Ukrainian. The West cannot help the middle east as they don't share any of the same values.

    So you are saying my neighbours are offering sanctiary and aid to Ukrainians because they are fleeing political thuggery rather than religious thuggery.

    Honestly I have more understanding of your dislike of all refugees/immigrants.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Ukraine was a country trying to remove itself from gangster politics and corruption through democracy. Syria and Afghanistan are essentially religiously motivated dictatorships. You can't help the later. So yes the response is just a mirror as to how most view Arabs and what they stand for against a more Western philosophy that is a Ukrainian. The West cannot help the middle east as they don't share any of the same values.

    Afghanistan looked like this in the 60s and 70s.





    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#12

    The Soviets invaded in 1979 and the Taliban took over after that (vastly simplified I know)
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    Disturbing for sure, but I'm not sure it's puzzling.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,145
    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Ukraine was a country trying to remove itself from gangster politics and corruption through democracy. Syria and Afghanistan are essentially religiously motivated dictatorships. You can't help the later. So yes the response is just a mirror as to how most view Arabs and what they stand for against a more Western philosophy that is a Ukrainian. The West cannot help the middle east as they don't share any of the same values.

    Afghanistan looked like this in the 60s and 70s.





    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#12

    The Soviets invaded in 1979 and the Taliban took over after that (vastly simplified I know)
    Oh come, on those are publicity shots. It is about as realistic as beautiful 1960s high rise living in the Gorbals.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,537
    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Ukraine was a country trying to remove itself from gangster politics and corruption through democracy. Syria and Afghanistan are essentially religiously motivated dictatorships. You can't help the later. So yes the response is just a mirror as to how most view Arabs and what they stand for against a more Western philosophy that is a Ukrainian. The West cannot help the middle east as they don't share any of the same values.

    Syria is not a theocracy. The only values Assad has are self preservation: he's seen what happens to dictators that fall. He's quite happy to set one sect against another when it suits him, though.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    .
    First.Aspect said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    It is human nature though isn't it? The middle east feels further away, whereas you could do a city break to Kyiv and they are in UEFA. I don't think this is a race thing so much as a European thing. And it also feels quite a lot like the early stages of the last couple of world wars than anything in our lifetimes.
    I totally agree that it is human nature but it is still shocking and brilliant that my road who did nothing collectively for Syria/Afghanistan managed to collect so much stuff for Ukraine that they had to borrow a mini-bus to take it to a a collection centre
    Ukraine was a country trying to remove itself from gangster politics and corruption through democracy. Syria and Afghanistan are essentially religiously motivated dictatorships. You can't help the later. So yes the response is just a mirror as to how most view Arabs and what they stand for against a more Western philosophy that is a Ukrainian. The West cannot help the middle east as they don't share any of the same values.

    Afghanistan looked like this in the 60s and 70s.





    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#12

    The Soviets invaded in 1979 and the Taliban took over after that (vastly simplified I know)
    Oh come, on those are publicity shots. It is about as realistic as beautiful 1960s high rise living in the Gorbals.
    I'm sure everyone didn't spend their days swanning around fanning themselves in parks. Look through the gallery.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,891
    surrey_commuter said:

    davidof said:

    kingstonian said:


    I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.

    You mean only bombing the cr@p out of third world countries?
    Rather than 3rd world it can only be people who do not look, dress and live like us.

    I find the difference in response in my local community to this disaster compared to Afghanistan, Syria or Iraq both puzzling and disturbing.
    Don't you think that favouritism potentially should be given to Afghan and Iraqi refugees on the basis the UK helped to create them?
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    'We are lucky that they are so f**king stupid!'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIknv0eMQA
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    The Ukrainian sense of humour is still alive and well...

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Another wish this is true moment...

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    .
    thegreatdivide said:

    'We are lucky that they are so f**king stupid!'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIknv0eMQA

    pixellated man with pixellated kit is well cool. i reckon he's a hit with the ladies.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    MattFalle said:

    .

    thegreatdivide said:

    'We are lucky that they are so f**king stupid!'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIknv0eMQA

    pixellated man with pixellated kit is well cool. i reckon he's a hit with the ladies.
    I guess we will have to take his word for it that he destroyed the artillery position
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,376
    ddraver said:

    Another wish this is true moment...

    Credit to Michael Gove where its due :smile:
    https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-oligarchs-mansions-ukraine-refugees-b2034756.html
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,133
    Stevo_666 said:


    ddraver said:

    Another wish this is true moment...

    Credit to Michael Gove where its due :smile:
    https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-oligarchs-mansions-ukraine-refugees-b2034756.html
    When he does it, maybe.

    For now...
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,376
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:


    ddraver said:

    Another wish this is true moment...

    Credit to Michael Gove where its due :smile:
    https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-oligarchs-mansions-ukraine-refugees-b2034756.html
    When he does it, maybe.

    For now...
    Top trolling in any event.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    thegreatdivide said:

    The Ukrainian sense of humour is still alive and well...


    I’m liking the inventiveness on display.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    MattFalle said:

    .

    thegreatdivide said:

    'We are lucky that they are so f**king stupid!'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIknv0eMQA

    pixellated man with pixellated kit is well cool. i reckon he's a hit with the ladies.
    Is the way they were firing those mortars standard? The guy was more or less looking down the tube when he dropped one of them in, felt like he was lucky not to blow his own head off!
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,328
    Mud, mud, glorious mud, nothing quite like it for pïssing off Vlad.

    You'd have thought they'd have known by now.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Pross said:

    MattFalle said:

    .

    thegreatdivide said:

    'We are lucky that they are so f**king stupid!'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIknv0eMQA

    pixellated man with pixellated kit is well cool. i reckon he's a hit with the ladies.
    Is the way they were firing those mortars standard? The guy was more or less looking down the tube when he dropped one of them in, felt like he was lucky not to blow his own head off!
    oh no. no no no. completely non textbook. about as non textbook as you can get.

    but hey, did the job quite well 😂😂😂😂
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.

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