Poo tin... Put@in...
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00159x8thegreatdivide said:K’in hell. Chap on R4 at the moment. More number crunching…Putin would need at the very least 600k troops to contain and subjugate Ukraine. He’s essentially fighting a battle he can’t win.
13 mins in. It’s an insightful analysis from one of the guys at the RUSI. It’s actually between 800k and 6 million troops required to control Ukraine once occupied.
Interesting suggestion that Ping could end up telling Putin to stop should it get to a critical point.
It’s grim listening for Ukraine though.
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Feel free to kidnap that cunt and give him a free skydiving lesson into the Russian front line.mully79 said:I do know someone who still 100% believes that Putin is fully justified to invade Ukraine and they will discover the chemical/biological weapons that the US is hiding there.
The eventual blaming of the Ukranians for the upcoming chemical/biological attack surely is the end game for a war that cant be won.
Our only hope for the truth is if someone topples Putin.0 -
Oh, I see. Well depends how you are listening I think. All I'm hearing is that it will take a long time, and be very bad. He basically seems to want to leave the whole country like Aleppo or Sarajevo. That much is clear.shirley_basso said:
Sorry I meant more about the likelihood of Russian success. I can't see ukraine lasting 1 month and with the use of phosphorus and chemical weapons life will get a lot easier for the Russians and a lot worse for the Ukrainians.First.Aspect said:
Yes, yes they should be more pro Russian.shirley_basso said:I do get the feeling that UK commentators are sometimes a bit to pro-west.
Will he attack people at border crossings? Don't know.
Will he use chemical weapons? Almost certainly.
Will he use dirty bombs? Possibly.
Will he use nuclear weapons? Probably not but we can't rule it out?
Will he "have" to shoot down a NATO plane or sink a non-Ukrainian vessel (civil or otherwise) somewhere along the line? I think it is inevitable - we have seen enough dispute over where a vessel was in the face of apparently incontestable GPS data in the past so why not now.
So I am listening to the same western biased news as the tub-thumpers, but the message I am getting is that we are in a race between sanctions biting the warm machine, and the development of the war itself. With the smart money being on the latter. I am not hearing much to make me think that Ukraine will either be the same size as it was, or have much left intact by the end of this.0 -
The British army could not control the shankill in northern Ireland. The only way Putin can control Ukraine is by essentially flattening it so there is not population to control as they don't seem to be showing much love for the Russians. If he does this there is a serious question for the we as to whether the west should ever lift sanctions or deal with Russia ever again. I would certainly vote for a foreign policy that was maximum hostility to Russia unless I saw Russians change their political and belief structure.thegreatdivide said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00159x8thegreatdivide said:K’in hell. Chap on R4 at the moment. More number crunching…Putin would need at the very least 600k troops to contain and subjugate Ukraine. He’s essentially fighting a battle he can’t win.
13 mins in. It’s an insightful analysis from one of the guys at the RUSI. It’s actually between 800k and 6 million troops required to control Ukraine once occupied.
Interesting suggestion that Ping could end up telling Putin to stop should it get to a critical point.
It’s grim listening for Ukraine though.0 -
Wait....Sergei Lavrov is your mate..?mully79 said:I do know someone who still 100% believes that Putin is fully justified to invade Ukraine and they will discover the chemical/biological weapons that the US is hiding there.
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I don’t disagree but who of an age not old enough to actually remember is aware of the Tiananmen Square massacre?john80 said:
The British army could not control the shankill in northern Ireland. The only way Putin can control Ukraine is by essentially flattening it so there is not population to control as they don't seem to be showing much love for the Russians. If he does this there is a serious question for the we as to whether the west should ever lift sanctions or deal with Russia ever again. I would certainly vote for a foreign policy that was maximum hostility to Russia unless I saw Russians change their political and belief structure.thegreatdivide said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00159x8thegreatdivide said:K’in hell. Chap on R4 at the moment. More number crunching…Putin would need at the very least 600k troops to contain and subjugate Ukraine. He’s essentially fighting a battle he can’t win.
13 mins in. It’s an insightful analysis from one of the guys at the RUSI. It’s actually between 800k and 6 million troops required to control Ukraine once occupied.
Interesting suggestion that Ping could end up telling Putin to stop should it get to a critical point.
It’s grim listening for Ukraine though.
Other than the politically engaged or historians, very few.
China was welcomed with open arms when it mobilised its labour into producing things cheaply for us. It wont be long before the inconvenient truth of this war is forgotten.
The lure of Russian resources will only grow stronger as their extraction elsewhere becomes increasingly costly. The only way out of the trap is energy security which does mean renewables and/or nuclear. If this was has a silver lining, it may the step change on that front that we need.0 -
He sounds just like Lavrov. Doesn’t watch the news channels as they’re full of the Wests fabricated propaganda.imposter2.0 said:
Wait....Sergei Lavrov is your mate..?mully79 said:I do know someone who still 100% believes that Putin is fully justified to invade Ukraine and they will discover the chemical/biological weapons that the US is hiding there.
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Yet more efforts to paint Britain as a place that hates foreigners. Now why could that be? Obviously not occurred to a chap like Goodwin that most people can't afford a house with lots of spare rooms.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
At the risk of starting up another game of party political tennis in the cake stop.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1501112986097926145
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I seriously doubt Putin's troops will be fighting under the same rules of engagement asthe British troops were in NI.john80 said:
The British army could not control the shankill in northern Ireland. The only way Putin can control Ukraine is by essentially flattening it so there is not population to control as they don't seem to be showing much love for the Russians. If he does this there is a serious question for the we as to whether the west should ever lift sanctions or deal with Russia ever again. I would certainly vote for a foreign policy that was maximum hostility to Russia unless I saw Russians change their political and belief structure.thegreatdivide said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00159x8thegreatdivide said:K’in hell. Chap on R4 at the moment. More number crunching…Putin would need at the very least 600k troops to contain and subjugate Ukraine. He’s essentially fighting a battle he can’t win.
13 mins in. It’s an insightful analysis from one of the guys at the RUSI. It’s actually between 800k and 6 million troops required to control Ukraine once occupied.
Interesting suggestion that Ping could end up telling Putin to stop should it get to a critical point.
It’s grim listening for Ukraine though.0 -
Plus the Shankhill was predominately Loyalist. Apologies for the pedantry.Pross said:
I seriously doubt Putin's troops will be fighting under the same rules of engagement asthe British troops were in NI.john80 said:
The British army could not control the shankill in northern Ireland. The only way Putin can control Ukraine is by essentially flattening it so there is not population to control as they don't seem to be showing much love for the Russians. If he does this there is a serious question for the we as to whether the west should ever lift sanctions or deal with Russia ever again. I would certainly vote for a foreign policy that was maximum hostility to Russia unless I saw Russians change their political and belief structure.thegreatdivide said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00159x8thegreatdivide said:K’in hell. Chap on R4 at the moment. More number crunching…Putin would need at the very least 600k troops to contain and subjugate Ukraine. He’s essentially fighting a battle he can’t win.
13 mins in. It’s an insightful analysis from one of the guys at the RUSI. It’s actually between 800k and 6 million troops required to control Ukraine once occupied.
Interesting suggestion that Ping could end up telling Putin to stop should it get to a critical point.
It’s grim listening for Ukraine though.
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I've been talking about the potential red-line that might change NATO's position for a while now. This from the BBC seems to suggest that once they cross the "WMD" barrier NATO might not consider it worth splitting hairs about which WMD is used.
Chemical weapons use could prompt Nato intervention, says Polish president
The use of chemical weapons by Russia in Ukraine could prompt Nato to reconsider its decision not to intervene militarily in the conflict, the Polish president has said.
Speaking to the BBC’s Sophie Raworth, Andrzej Duda was asked whether he believed President Putin could be preparing to use chemical weapons.
“This is something the world has not seen on this scale since the Second World War,” he said.
“If you’re asking me whether Putin can use chemical weapons, I think Putin can use anything right now, especially when he’s in this difficult situation.
“Politically, he has already lost this war, and militarily, he’s not winning it.”
Asked whether any such use could prompt a Nato intervention, he said: “Of course, everybody hopes that he would not dare do that.
“But… if he uses weapons of mass destruction, this would be a gamechanger in the whole thing.
“For sure, [Nato]… would have to sit at the table and they will really have to think seriously what to do, because then it starts to be dangerous, not only for Europe…, but the whole world.”0 -
Can BJ be sanctioned for being complicit?blazing_saddles said:At the risk of starting up another game of party political tennis in the cake stop.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1501112986097926145The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
9% of households taking one each would be loads, surely?rjsterry said:Yet more efforts to paint Britain as a place that hates foreigners. Now why could that be? Obviously not occurred to a chap like Goodwin that most people can't afford a house with lots of spare rooms.
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That would be around 5 million households. We could take the whole lot...kingstongraham said:9% of households taking one each would be loads, surely?
Actually, no it wouldn't. But it's probably still plenty...
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I presume that the poll wasn't legally binding though!
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Spaffer has gobbled dodgy roubles for so long and in such quantity that he's in hock, big time. There was a research piece published recently in BylineTimes I think giving some details of his long term relationship with the Russian 'peer' Lebedev.pblakeney said:
Can BJ be sanctioned for being complicit?blazing_saddles said:At the risk of starting up another game of party political tennis in the cake stop.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1501112986097926145
Found it: https://bylinetimes.com/2022/03/12/boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-russia-ukraine-kgb-evening-standard/
There are other articles going back over several years on related stuff. About time MSM got on the case, now that partygate is over.
I'm sure there'll be some #toryscum fanbois along soon enough going whaddabout, look over there a unicorn, Jeremy Corbyn, blah blah.
What an effin' state this country has slumped to.0 -
Estimates of 200,000 Russians having left Russia since the war in Ukraine started. Important to remember that not all Russians are pro Putin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60697763
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Not a surprise really, I think many Russians aren't pro-Putin but keep quiet about it.kingstonian said:Estimates of 200,000 Russians having left Russia since the war in Ukraine started. Important to remember that not all Russians are pro Putin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60697763"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I see Gove has said that the government is looking at using the seized properties of Russian oligarchs to house Ukrainian refugees. Not a bad idea and top trolling even though the absolute number that can be accommodated that way is probably not that high."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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Yes, half the population of Ukraine.kingstongraham said:
9% of households taking one each would be loads, surely?rjsterry said:Yet more efforts to paint Britain as a place that hates foreigners. Now why could that be? Obviously not occurred to a chap like Goodwin that most people can't afford a house with lots of spare rooms.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Lebedev owns the Independent and Evening Standard.orraloon said:
Spaffer has gobbled dodgy roubles for so long and in such quantity that he's in hock, big time. There was a research piece published recently in BylineTimes I think giving some details of his long term relationship with the Russian 'peer' Lebedev.pblakeney said:
Can BJ be sanctioned for being complicit?blazing_saddles said:At the risk of starting up another game of party political tennis in the cake stop.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1501112986097926145
Found it: https://bylinetimes.com/2022/03/12/boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-russia-ukraine-kgb-evening-standard/
There are other articles going back over several years on related stuff. About time MSM got on the case, now that partygate is over.
I'm sure there'll be some #toryscum fanbois along soon enough going whaddabout, look over there a unicorn, Jeremy Corbyn, blah blah.
What an effin' state this country has slumped to.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Lebedev is another case where Private Eye have been on the case for ages.
It's stuff like this which is one of the reasons I subscribe to PE - they keep plugging away at stuff the MSM seem to overlook or forget.0 -
I got an annual sub to PE as a Christmas pressie. Quite often find it depressing to read their reports on what is deemed appropriate behaviour by rascals in all walks of life in this dUK.0
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I personally think the visa scheme should stay. However what I would like to see is a simple website that allowed people to offer accomodation and let the home office then match the people with visas up with accomodation. Whilst they have done some of this with the scheme on Monday it is still too restrictive on visa requirements.0
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orraloon said:
I got an annual sub to PE as a Christmas pressie. Quite often find it depressing to read their reports on what is deemed appropriate behaviour by rascals in all walks of life in this dUK.
Yes, often very depressing - especially Rotten Boroughs, and how both incompetence and continually stain local government in certain places. But it's good that PE keeps looking at these sorts of stories that are too often overlooked.
Also depressing is that it was trying to read PE in bed that made me realise that my arms weren't long enough and the print was too small, and that I needed glasses at last.0 -
Population of Ukraine = 44 millionrjsterry said:
Yes, half the population of Ukraine.kingstongraham said:
9% of households taking one each would be loads, surely?rjsterry said:Yet more efforts to paint Britain as a place that hates foreigners. Now why could that be? Obviously not occurred to a chap like Goodwin that most people can't afford a house with lots of spare rooms.
Households in UK = 28 million0 -
Think of NATO as the USA, and then ask what would be bad enough for the people of USA to get behind Biden in going to war with Russia.First.Aspect said:I've been talking about the potential red-line that might change NATO's position for a while now. This from the BBC seems to suggest that once they cross the "WMD" barrier NATO might not consider it worth splitting hairs about which WMD is used.
Chemical weapons use could prompt Nato intervention, says Polish president
The use of chemical weapons by Russia in Ukraine could prompt Nato to reconsider its decision not to intervene militarily in the conflict, the Polish president has said.
Speaking to the BBC’s Sophie Raworth, Andrzej Duda was asked whether he believed President Putin could be preparing to use chemical weapons.
“This is something the world has not seen on this scale since the Second World War,” he said.
“If you’re asking me whether Putin can use chemical weapons, I think Putin can use anything right now, especially when he’s in this difficult situation.
“Politically, he has already lost this war, and militarily, he’s not winning it.”
Asked whether any such use could prompt a Nato intervention, he said: “Of course, everybody hopes that he would not dare do that.
“But… if he uses weapons of mass destruction, this would be a gamechanger in the whole thing.
“For sure, [Nato]… would have to sit at the table and they will really have to think seriously what to do, because then it starts to be dangerous, not only for Europe…, but the whole world.”
I am going to say no to 10 million Ukrainian civilian deaths and yes to one US helicopter with 6 deaths in Polish airspace0 -
Half of 44 million is 22 million. Let's say that's three people to a family and you are looking at just over 7 million family units to house. 9% of 67 million is 6 million. Divide that by 2.39 and we get 2.5 million households. So no, not half of the total population, but a decent chunk of the refugee population.surrey_commuter said:
Population of Ukraine = 44 millionrjsterry said:
Yes, half the population of Ukraine.kingstongraham said:
9% of households taking one each would be loads, surely?rjsterry said:Yet more efforts to paint Britain as a place that hates foreigners. Now why could that be? Obviously not occurred to a chap like Goodwin that most people can't afford a house with lots of spare rooms.
Households in UK = 28 million1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Really is horrendous to see the images of residential districts across Ukraine having been shelled to bits. Incredible to remember how at the beginning of Russia’s invasion they had the gall to say they were only targeting military installations. We all knew it was garbage, but to stand up in front of the world and say it just shows how little respect they have for general decency.
I’m not particularly hardline by nature, but for me the only outcome from this is the Western world has to fully turn its back on Russia and only consider reversing the sanctions if and when Russia abides with how the Western world operates.0
