Poo tin... Put@in...

briantrumpet

ballysmate said:

Jezyboy said:

rick_chasey said:

Jezyboy said:

rick_chasey said:

Jezyboy said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Isn't the solution likely to be that Russia gets Crimea, Ukraine promises not to join NATO for a period of time and Russia pays reparations in some form e.g. high rent on nord stream. Putin then celebrates his greatness whilst knowing he lost.

I read he wants a ground route to Crimea.
i.e. Dnipro, Maruipol, Donetsk, Krasnadar.

Oh, and disarmament and neutrality.

No doubt he wants an apology and compensation from Biden also.

Yea, I assume we're some way off a deal that is agreeable to both parties.

Is it possible that Putin just gets delt with by some Russians who feel they are better served by not being a pariah state.

All the Kremlinologists (fwiw) seem to think if it’s a coup it’ll only be more hardline.

It would have to be revolutionary which seems a long way off and the wargamaing analysis suggests he’d use nukes before then (unless he wins of course)

Do the Kremlinologists have a good record on predictions?

They have a much better understanding of the power structures than we do.

The summary is he’s surrounded himself with hardliners and they are hooked to the ship.

The rest he is very isolated from, so they have little chance of getting at him, or building a power base.

So if it’s gonna be one it’s gonna be a hardliners who’s worried he’s gonna go down with the ship.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/08/sanctions-vladimir-putin-kremlin-russian-oligarchy

So the TLDR is the rich oligarchs we see have surprisingly little power.

But it makes us feel good about ourselves when we seize their yachts, houses and football clubs doesn't it?

If they wanted to do some proper trolling, they should offer to return the money to poor Russians, once the war is over.

First.Aspect

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

shirley_basso

ddraver

Can see one or two issues with "well informed" but otherwise...

Mind you, me mate Dave says there's no shortage of russian nudeyness on the internet so maybe not...

thegreatdivide

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

First.Aspect

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

thegreatdivide

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

pangolin

ballysmate said:

pangolin said:

ballysmate said:

Not watched Question Time for years, but here's a clip of Konstantin Kisin (Russian born comedian and writer apparently) giving his insight. Perhaps not what people want to hear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXwlqoSF70&ab_channel=Triggernometry

Not going to be able to watch it until this evening. However it's hard to take your points seriously when you post stuff from channels called "Trigger nometry" or "Meme the left".

Relax, you'll be fine. It's only a montage of Kisin speaking on QT. I hadn't heard of him nor Triggernometry either but came across the clip whilst down the YT rabbit hole.
Take a look, you may think it bollox, but don't ignore it because you don't like the look of the source.
I've posted links on here from the Guardian in the past, as I feel that even they can not be wrong 100% of the time. I assume they get the Pango seal of approval?

The Guardian produces plenty of utter drivel and I don't think you'll find anyone here who disagrees with that, it's an easy strawman but it's not a meme channel. The youtube algorithm certainly knows you well

I haven't said I'll ignore it, I'll give it a watch later on.

Hi @shortfall

surrey_commuter

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

MattFalle

surrey_commuter said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

maybe not.


https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-scottish-golf-resorts-lose-nearly-9-million-2021-12?amp

imposter2.0

AndyG785 said:

Not been on here for about 3 or 4 years, no idea who "Nick" is but i do vaguely remember MM but what is very noticeable is that there are no new posters..... just the same old.. even Coopster has gone!

Glad to hear you are not MM (Nick), so I'll happily withdraw my accusation. There are no new posters here, because there are far better cycling forums available, and this one is now probably the worst in terms of cycling content. But the debates here are as good as anywhere. It's like an old, failing pub, where the only ones left are the locals. Doesn't mean everyone will agree with you though...

thegreatdivide

surrey_commuter said:

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

LOL. Well done.

surrey_commuter

thegreatdivide said:

surrey_commuter said:

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

LOL. Well done.

TY

briantrumpet

MattFalle said:

surrey_commuter said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

maybe not.


https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-scottish-golf-resorts-lose-nearly-9-million-2021-12?amp

It's not impossible that they always were there not to turn a profit, but for other financial reasons (as well as bolstering Trump's ego).

First.Aspect

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

We are talking at crossed purposes. And irrelevant to this thread so as exercised as I get about the SNP's fairy tales, let's nor bore everyone else.

MattFalle

briantrumpet said:

MattFalle said:

surrey_commuter said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

maybe not.


https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-scottish-golf-resorts-lose-nearly-9-million-2021-12?amp

It's not impossible that they always were there not to turn a profit, but for other financial reasons (as well as bolstering Trump's ego).

what - as loss making businesses to lower his overall tax levels?

MattFalle

Soz geezer, wrong thread.

briantrumpet

MattFalle said:

briantrumpet said:

MattFalle said:

surrey_commuter said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

It is a debate, but not relevant here. I was just saying I would hope that in tines of uncertainty, the status quo would be maintained.

Now does not appear to be a good time to be a small non-nato and non-EU northern European county with some remote territorial waters and islands. Particularly if you don't budget for a navy or Air force.

There's been a lot of military infrastructure investment in Scotland lately. RAF Lossiemouth is a HUGE base now - one of the biggest in the UK. Leuchars, which is just down the road from me is now a major Army base after the RAF moved to Lossie, but all the RAF infrastructure is in place and the runway is used almost daily by NATO aircraft. I strongly suspect it'll be fully reactivated into some kind of Joint Force thing when military spending is ramped up due to this war. The SNP will have to grudgingly accept it - even though it'll be a big boost to local economy.

If they wanted to boost the local economy they should get Trump to turn it into a golf course as there is nowhere to play round there.

maybe not.


https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-scottish-golf-resorts-lose-nearly-9-million-2021-12?amp

It's not impossible that they always were there not to turn a profit, but for other financial reasons (as well as bolstering Trump's ego).

what - as loss making businesses to lower his overall tax levels?

More complicated than that, I think - I think he's been valuing them at different levels depending on whether he's paying tax or asking for loans.

But this is the wrong thread...

masjer

imposter2.0 said:

AndyG785 said:

Not been on here for about 3 or 4 years, no idea who "Nick" is but i do vaguely remember MM but what is very noticeable is that there are no new posters..... just the same old.. even Coopster has gone!

There are no new posters here, because there are far better cycling forums available, and this one is now probably the worst in terms of cycling content. But the debates here are as good as anywhere. It's like an old, failing pub, where the only ones left are the locals. Doesn't mean everyone will agree with you though...

I'll drink to that.

ballysmate

ddraver said:

Can see one or two issues with "well informed" but otherwise...

Mind you, me mate Dave says there's no shortage of russian nudeyness on the internet so maybe not...

Got any links?
Askin' for a friend, like.

ballysmate

thegreatdivide said:

First.Aspect said:

john80 said:

I often think those in Scotland that argue they don't need a Nuclear deterrent or a decent Army are really just trying to save a few bob whilst thinking the English will come to their defence if anything happened. For sure its a strategy but if they can't agree fundamental things like this with the UK then good luck to them and this is me saying this as a Scot.

Hopefully geopolitical upheaval will not increase popularity of the yes muppets.

It's the basing of the weapons in Scotland that's not liked. It's a fair point.

Not particularly wanting to go off at a tangent but why is it a fair point?
Do they think that any nuclear fallout from an attack would stop at Berwick?
Perhaps they feel they are solely carrying the risk of any accident. In which case they should look at the proximity to London of Burghfield and Aldermaston.

ddraver

I'm wondering how long the unanswered/unanswerable pleas for a no fly zone can last before Ukranian feelings start to harden... 🤔😔

kingstonian

NATO can’t and won’t change their stance on that point. And it doesn’t appear to be attacks from the air which are causing the majority of the problem for Ukrainian forces, it is artillery fire.

ballysmate

ddraver said:

I'm wondering how long the unanswered/unanswerable pleas for a no fly zone can last before Ukranian feelings start to harden... 🤔😔

From what I see, it's not the Russian Air force that's inflicting casualties and destruction but more the tanks and artillery.
A no fly zone would have no effect on this would it?

Just seen Kg make same point.

ddraver

Understood, but it's what the Ukranians keep asking for. I assume they have some reason.

Perhaps they're worried about what might come next..?

pblakeney

I thought Ukraine was being fairly effective at enforcing a no fly zone.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

I thought Ukraine was being fairly effective at enforcing a no fly zone.

They're not that able to give air support to their own troops in the east and south apparently.

First.Aspect

Does Ukraine just want to draw NATO in initially, so they end up with help on the ground later?

ballysmate

ddraver said:

Understood, but it's what the Ukranians keep asking for. I assume they have some reason.

Perhaps they're worried about what might come next..?

Ukraine also asks for Europe to stop importing Russian gas as it benefits Russia to the tune of over 250m dollars a day.
Europe has put that in the "Too Difficult" tray.

rick_chasey

ballysmate said:

ddraver said:

Understood, but it's what the Ukranians keep asking for. I assume they have some reason.

Perhaps they're worried about what might come next..?

Ukraine also asks for Europe to stop importing Russian gas as it benefits Russia to the tune of over 250m dollars a day.
Europe has put that in the "Too Difficult" tray.

NATO needs to examine its own interest first and it may well be that not getting into a war with Russia is a preferable option