Poo tin... Put@in...
Comments
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rick_chasey said:
I find it amusing you are quick to contextualise the British response, but when it comes to the German response it's shooting from the hip, no nuance.ballysmate said:kingstongraham said:
And I can take the hit OK, but support for the people in the UK who are already going to struggle with prices going up would need to increase massively if we're going to do that.ballysmate said:kingstongraham said:
German sanctions on oil and gas from Russia would surely increase our prices nearly as much.ballysmate said:
Quite agree. Gas sanctions will hit some more than others, eg Germany. But as Blakey says, they are the most meaningful. We have to accept whatever pain they bring as it is nothing compared to the suffering in Ukraine.kingstongraham said:That's the heart of the sanctions story, isn't it? Easy to put sanctions on that don't much affect your own people.
On the subject of Germany, for decades they have got by not paying their share for defence and apologists for them have said that it was understandable because they were bastards in the past.
Now they need to exert economic pressure as a weapon of defence and they reluctant to that as well.
And?
So when would you turn off the tap for Russian gas? When they get to Kyiv? The Polish border? German border? The Channel? Marching up The Thames?
We have to do it now.
Could it be because I am addressing a British resident?
So what is the nuanced German response? They either finance the Russian war effort or they don't.
wir stehen zur ukraine (unless we have to do without Russian gas, obviously)
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See the Tory party thread - I stuck it there.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:
I find it amusing you are quick to contextualise the British response, but when it comes to the German response it's shooting from the hip, no nuance.ballysmate said:kingstongraham said:
And I can take the hit OK, but support for the people in the UK who are already going to struggle with prices going up would need to increase massively if we're going to do that.ballysmate said:kingstongraham said:
German sanctions on oil and gas from Russia would surely increase our prices nearly as much.ballysmate said:
Quite agree. Gas sanctions will hit some more than others, eg Germany. But as Blakey says, they are the most meaningful. We have to accept whatever pain they bring as it is nothing compared to the suffering in Ukraine.kingstongraham said:That's the heart of the sanctions story, isn't it? Easy to put sanctions on that don't much affect your own people.
On the subject of Germany, for decades they have got by not paying their share for defence and apologists for them have said that it was understandable because they were bastards in the past.
Now they need to exert economic pressure as a weapon of defence and they reluctant to that as well.
And?
So when would you turn off the tap for Russian gas? When they get to Kyiv? The Polish border? German border? The Channel? Marching up The Thames?
We have to do it now.
Could it be because I am addressing a British resident?
So what is the nuanced German response? They either finance the Russian war effort or they don't.
wir stehen zur ukraine (unless we have to do without Russian gas, obviously)0 -
I'm over a thousand posts behind on that thread. Do I need to go back very far to get context?
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Only 8% of Russian exports are their gas, but that manifests itself into 37.5% of Europe's gas supplies. The impact on individual countries varies with the UK being the least reliant on Russian gas, and the likes of Germany heavily reliant on Russian gas. Overall though, the UK is the most reliant on gas for our energy supplies.
A bigger hit than the gas would be stopping oil exports which represent 37% of Russia's overall exports, but those exports will be far more global in their nature.
Our town has a Tesco and an Esso fuel station, on opposite sides of the town. The Esso garage is notorious for profiteering, and deisel this morning was 174.9 p a litre. On Friday it was 159.9 p there.
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It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.2
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surrey_commuter said:
It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.0 -
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The unfortunate truth is that the price increases are coming one way or another regardless. See the latest story on food prices. This is the price for being in a global market.surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Surely if we are in a global market, we can buy from elsewhere (oil & gas I appreciate not that straightforward)pblakeney said:
The unfortunate truth is that the price increases are coming one way or another regardless. See the latest story on food prices. This is the price for being in a global market.surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
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Oil is quite straightforward, gas not.shirley_basso said:
Surely if we are in a global market, we can buy from elsewhere (oil & gas I appreciate not that straightforward)pblakeney said:
The unfortunate truth is that the price increases are coming one way or another regardless. See the latest story on food prices. This is the price for being in a global market.surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
But there is no option at the moment, but to take the pain.0 -
Global crisis.
"The boss of one of the world's biggest fertiliser companies has said the war in Ukraine will deliver a shock to the global supply and cost of food.
Svein Tore Holsether, the boss of Yara International, said fertiliser prices, which were already high before the Russian invasion due to skyrocketing gas prices, could continue to soar.
Yara, which operates in more than 60 countries, buys considerable amounts of essential raw materials from Russia.
"We were already in a difficult situation before the war," Holsether told the BBC. "Now it's additional disruption to the supply chains and we're getting close to the most important part of this season for the Northern hemisphere, where a lot of fertiliser needs to move on and that will quite likely be impacted."
Russia produces enormous amounts of nutrients, like potash and phosphate - key ingredients in fertilisers, which enable plants and crops to grow.
"For me, it's not whether we are moving into a global food crisis - it's how large the crisis will be," Holsether added."The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
People are soft because they can't afford to both heat their homes AND eat?ballysmate said:surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.
What on earth?0 -
You'd be accepting of tax increases necessary to offset the price increases for those who will need the help then? As well as the price increases themselves.ballysmate said:surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.0 -
rick_chasey said:
People are soft because they can't afford to both heat their homes AND eat?ballysmate said:surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.
What on earth?
During warfare that is a consequence. Putin is right, we in the west don't have the belly for it.0 -
The tracker linked to before ^ up this thread currently showing 2 ex-Fairford B52s in Hungarian airspace about to enter Romanian, south of the Ukraine border. Oh happy days.
I need to get off the internet to reduce brain ache.0 -
OK. I'm gonna say as someone who regularly advocates policies and ideologies which serve to worsen inequality and hurt the poor materially more than the rich, you're not really in a position to accuse said poor of being soft and not having the "belly for it", and to do so is quite shocking.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:
People are soft because they can't afford to both heat their homes AND eat?ballysmate said:surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.
What on earth?
During warfare that is a consequence. Putin is right, we in the west don't have the belly for it.
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Poor? Who mentioned wealth? I said the west, rich and poor.
Poor? Who mentioned wealth? I said the west, rich and poor.rick_chasey said:
OK. I'm gonna say as someone who regularly advocates policies and ideologies which serve to worsen inequality and hurt the poor materially more than the rich, you're not really in a position to accuse said poor of being soft and not having the "belly for it", and to do so is quite shocking.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:
People are soft because they can't afford to both heat their homes AND eat?ballysmate said:surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.
What on earth?
During warfare that is a consequence. Putin is right, we in the west don't have the belly for it.0 -
The poor in the Uk can literally not afford the incoming inflation.
It’s not about the belly for it. Quite the opposite, their bellies will be very empty without support.0 -
Bally's exact words
"Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high."
I don't know how you read 'poor' into that. If anything, he's talking about the middle classes.0 -
Rick regards people who go to Benidorm as poor.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Because Britain has a large working poor who literally cannot afford the incoming prices.shirley_basso said:Bally's exact words
"Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high."
I don't know how you read 'poor' into that. If anything, he's talking about the middle classes.
The people who can't afford it almost certainly won't support them and you can't blame them.
And it was in response to an SC comment on "people living hand to mouth" >0 -
Pre pandemic people thought that the UK population would only be locked down successfully for 2 weeks in March 2020 and that there was some intrinsic difference between Asians and Brits.ballysmate said:surrey_commuter said:It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin.
You may be right. As I mentioned in the Tory thread, Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high.
The talk of hard and soft just sounds broadly like Russian propaganda really.
Rather than seeing Russians as particularly hard, it's more that they just have the misfortune to live under a really shiitty regime that treats its people like dirt.0 -
That is a statement of fact.rick_chasey said:
Because Britain has a large working poor who literally cannot afford the incoming prices.shirley_basso said:Bally's exact words
"Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high."
I don't know how you read 'poor' into that. If anything, he's talking about the middle classes.
The people who can't afford it almost certainly won't support them and you can't blame them.
What are we going to do about this inevitability?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The British public collectively?pblakeney said:
That is a statement of fact.rick_chasey said:
Because Britain has a large working poor who literally cannot afford the incoming prices.shirley_basso said:Bally's exact words
"Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high."
I don't know how you read 'poor' into that. If anything, he's talking about the middle classes.
The people who can't afford it almost certainly won't support them and you can't blame them.
What are we going to do about this inevitability?
No doubt vote for something that sounds sensible but is f*cking moronic and only serves to worsen the problem because a decent proportion of Brits think the state of your finances reflect who you are as a person and are deserving of it.
What do you think the gov't is going to do about it? Create another loan scheme for energy prices?
No doubt they will loosen the laws around fracking and say to hell with the environmental consequences that will live with us well after the war is over.1 -
OK. SC refers to people who life "hand to mouth" and Bally responds to that.pblakeney said:Rick regards people who go to Benidorm as poor.
It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin
You don't think people who live hand-to-mouth are poor?0 -
Yes, the British public collectively.rick_chasey said:
The British public collectively?pblakeney said:
That is a statement of fact.rick_chasey said:
Because Britain has a large working poor who literally cannot afford the incoming prices.shirley_basso said:Bally's exact words
"Putin is right, people in the west are soft.
During covid for instance, some people viewed the fact that they couldn't get a week drinking and fighting in Benidorm as being a price too high."
I don't know how you read 'poor' into that. If anything, he's talking about the middle classes.
The people who can't afford it almost certainly won't support them and you can't blame them.
What are we going to do about this inevitability?
This is going to impact us all and it is up to us* to get through it.
*I'd like to think the government would do it but we know that is not the case so we all have to muck in. Alternative being standing aside thinking I'm all right. This will be a time for action not debating. Unless someone gets Putin quick.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Just maybe Bally is making the point that enthusiasm is irrelevant as we are all soft.rick_chasey said:
OK. SC refers to people who life "hand to mouth" and Bally responds to that.pblakeney said:Rick regards people who go to Benidorm as poor.
It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin
You don't think people who live hand-to-mouth are poor?
Obviously people living hand-to-mouth are poor. Have I indicated otherwise?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That was who I was referring to, not people who go to benidorm, ffs.pblakeney said:
Just maybe Bally is making the point that enthusiasm is irrelevant as we are all soft.rick_chasey said:
OK. SC refers to people who life "hand to mouth" and Bally responds to that.pblakeney said:Rick regards people who go to Benidorm as poor.
It has been mentioned on here before that we are not representative of the general population but it does need saying that the majority of people live hand to mouth. In a months time they could find their unavoidable costs (power, NI, Council Tax, travel) increasing by £1-200 a month. I am not convinced these people will share the enthusiasm for paying the price of punishing Putin
You don't think people who live hand-to-mouth are poor?
Obviously people living hand-to-mouth are poor. Have I indicated otherwise?0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk3eMMIW1QI&ab_channel=MEMETHELEFT
