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  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    So, what are the "consequences" do we think, for Finland and Sweden?
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    JimD666 said:

    Putin starting to look like he'll be up for European and NATO statesman of the year.

    No one else has done as much to foster improved relations and co-operation within both areas in years!

    He literally couldn’t have done any worse than he has done to meet his objectives, even if he spent years plotting.

    He’s also massively reduced the fear factor of his ridiculous Willy waving of air space probes etc.

    The only thing he has kept intact is the unpredictability of his actions, total disregard for human life and the threat of WMD.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First.Aspect said:

    So, what are the "consequences" do we think, for Finland and Sweden?

    nothing
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,183
    The irony is I bet they are both reconsidering nuclear power now, akin to many European countries.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    yup.

    he's done a mega pint job of totally hashing everything up.

    its like a textbook lesson in how to hash everything up.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,183
    Yeah, some legacy.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    wouldn't it be mad if he turned out to be some kind of Western sleeper agent all along and this was the final plan - destruction of Russia's military and economy, massive internal ructions, oligarchs stuffed, NATO expansion along all borders?

    so it wasn't about Trump paying girls to pissonhim after all?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,666
    MattFalle said:

    wouldn't it be mad if he turned out to be some kind of Western sleeper agent all along and this was the final plan - destruction of Russia's military and economy, massive internal ructions, oligarchs stuffed, NATO expansion along all borders?

    so it wasn't about Trump paying girls to pissonhim after all?

    Or a Ukrainian sleeper agent playing the loooong game to help them reach Eurovision victory.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    pangolin said:

    MattFalle said:

    wouldn't it be mad if he turned out to be some kind of Western sleeper agent all along and this was the final plan - destruction of Russia's military and economy, massive internal ructions, oligarchs stuffed, NATO expansion along all borders?

    so it wasn't about Trump paying girls to pissonhim after all?

    Or a Ukrainian sleeper agent playing the loooong game to help them reach Eurovision victory.
    now this i like

    utter genius 😀😀
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Scottish agent to get Russia slung out so Scotland qualify for WC?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,593
    MattFalle said:

    Scottish agent to get Russia slung out so Scotland qualify for WC?

    You'll find their qualifier is against Ukraine. I'd imagine a weaker Ukraine, but I don't know.
    I did hypothesise at the start that the Scots could throw it, and Wales do likewise to get Ukraine to the finals and wind up the Russians but I doubt it.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Noted

    tbh, I don't think tbey will need to throw it for Ukraine to qualify....
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,593
    edited May 2022
    MattFalle said:

    Noted

    tbh, I don't think tbey will need to throw it for Ukraine to qualify....

    From the 27th February. 😉
    .
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    FIFA are going to dance on the head of a pin with this. No one will play Russia in WC qualifiers.

    As I sit here now my guess is that Russia will qualify by default, because, well it's FIFA and FIFA are politically neutral and morally non-existent. And this will create a huge headache in Qatar, which is a sports washing exercise itself, because the conflict will still be going on.

    I would find it funny if as a protest nobody went to Qatar.
    Not going to happen, but it's a pleasant thought.

    PS - Anyone think Scotland are going to throw their match against Ukraine?
    Not lose as that's fairly predictable, but blatantly throw it.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    imposter2.0 said:

    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car


    Well they aren't going to struggle with computer chip shortages, at least.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,738
    I've said it before and it's far from an original thought but I'm low key amazed at how the Soviet mindset has really not faded from a large section of Russian Society...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    ddraver said:

    I've said it before and it's far from an original thought but I'm low key amazed at how the Soviet mindset has really not faded from a large section of Russian Society...

    What, in the sense of queuing for ages to buy something shjt?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,738
    In the sense of What sort of doublethink (yawn) is required to believe that the reappearance of awful cars is a sign that your country is 100% right and true...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • New_Old_Stock
    New_Old_Stock Posts: 26
    edited May 2022
    ddraver said:

    I've said it before and it's far from an original thought but I'm low key amazed at how the Soviet mindset has really not faded from a large section of Russian Society...

    To be fair, we have Brexiteers like WRM who wish they were still living in the 1950s. Who in their right mind would want to return to the 50s, unless it was warn them that Suez wasn't really a good idea and they ought to stop calling the Egyptians 'w0gs'.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    ddraver said:

    In the sense of What sort of doublethink (yawn) is required to believe that the reappearance of awful cars is a sign that your country is 100% right and true...

    Tbf, the article only says that they are going to use the name again, not build the actual cars.

    All they will do is continue with the same machinery and put a different badge on the front.

    Retooling a whole car factory and retraining a whole workforce is quite tricky.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,738
    ^ Fair

    ^^ Fair
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,623
    Presumably this is the car plant situation you are referring to?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61463874
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,844
    Turkey causing trouble for the Finland/Sweden NATO bids.
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    MattFalle said:

    ddraver said:

    In the sense of What sort of doublethink (yawn) is required to believe that the reappearance of awful cars is a sign that your country is 100% right and true...

    Tbf, the article only says that they are going to use the name again, not build the actual cars.

    All they will do is continue with the same machinery and put a different badge on the front.

    Retooling a whole car factory and retraining a whole workforce is quite tricky.
    They’ll be fine until they start needing replacement parts for the machinery in the plant, and find none of it is made in Russia and can’t easily be reproduced.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    kingstonian said:

    MattFalle said:

    ddraver said:

    In the sense of What sort of doublethink (yawn) is required to believe that the reappearance of awful cars is a sign that your country is 100% right and true...

    Tbf, the article only says that they are going to use the name again, not build the actual cars.

    All they will do is continue with the same machinery and put a different badge on the front.

    Retooling a whole car factory and retraining a whole workforce is quite tricky.
    They’ll be fine until they start needing replacement parts for the machinery in the plant, and find none of it is made in Russia and can’t easily be reproduced.
    I also saw a comment from the CEO of Renault that they would be maintaining trade marks in Russia. Clearly this is to prevent cars being sold as Renaults that aren't, but it also makes me wonder what other IP they are maintaining. I imagine there are registered designs on all sorts of parts of the cars. Are they leaving a factory but not the right to make anything it is set up to make?
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,127
    First.Aspect said:

    imposter2.0 said:

    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car


    Well they aren't going to struggle with computer chip shortages, at least.
    ah so it is a #fakenews
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    davidof said:

    First.Aspect said:

    imposter2.0 said:

    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car


    Well they aren't going to struggle with computer chip shortages, at least.
    ah so it is a #fakenews
    No, not at all. Renault sold factory, Russians building cars there under separate badge.

    Its just that people don't read articles properly.

    Didn't Rover and MG do this?

    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    davidof said:

    First.Aspect said:

    imposter2.0 said:

    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car


    Well they aren't going to struggle with computer chip shortages, at least.
    ah so it is a #fakenews
    It was a reference to how rudimentary a Moskovitch was, that's all.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    MattFalle said:

    davidof said:

    First.Aspect said:

    imposter2.0 said:

    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car


    Well they aren't going to struggle with computer chip shortages, at least.
    ah so it is a #fakenews
    No, not at all. Renault sold factory, Russians building cars there under separate badge.

    Its just that people don't read articles properly.

    Didn't Rover and MG do this?

    Yes, it happens.

    What I'm not clear about is whether Renault have accepted that there will be dreadful Renault-shaped things driving about for the next 40 years, or whether they will be restricting use of the designs, as well as trademarks. And then there's all the software and wotnot for the satnav and ecu. All proprietary to the Reggie.

    Probably Renault will just consider reputational damage within a pariah state to be acceptable and allow Mosko-naults to be built.

    But I tend not to think that a one line quote reproduced in multiple articles necessarily conveys all of the subtleties.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Depends on the S&P agreement I suppose

    Renault have reserved the
    First.Aspect said:

    davidof said:

    First.Aspect said:

    imposter2.0 said:

    You're all wrong. The real reason was so that Russia could start making the Moskvich again. Soviet nostalgia personified..

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/russia-renault-moscow-factory-revive-soviet-era-moskvitch-car


    Well they aren't going to struggle with computer chip shortages, at least.
    ah so it is a #fakenews
    It was a reference to how rudimentary a Moskovitch was, that's all.
    No more rudimentary that the large turnip that sits inside Nadine Dorres' ears inside her skull
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.

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