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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,298
    ddraver said:

    As discussed,

    All the time. The man most picture as a "raving lefty" by this forums standards is actually a card carrying centrist dad.

    That figures.
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/03/23/britains-centrist-dads-doomed-wrong/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,691
    Oh, and how did we miss this hilarity - Surely this is something that our mythical far left AND right wingers can laugh about together...



    Some of the replies are 👌
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Please expand :)
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,282
    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    Well done them is that I say.
    Sacrificing life for a career is a mug's game.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,126
    Why can't everybody just get together, have a nice cup of tea and work things out?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    Well done them is that I say.
    Sacrificing life for a career is a mug's game.
    They're in the wrong job then, in all seriousness.

    It's a sales job. We take home a portion of what we sell as our personal income. You can't grow the business (and so employ more people like them) unless we all sell more.

    To get to the point where you're taking the sales money home and not being paid to do the work the guys are selling, you have to pull your finger out to prove you can do it on your own.

    If ya want a boring 9-5 job without the chance to make loads, that's great, go for it, I'm all for it, just don't do it here.

    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,282
    It is possible to get a challenging, interesting and rewarding (in all aspects) 9-5 job.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited April 2022
    pblakeney said:

    It is possible to get a challenging, interesting and rewarding (in all aspects) 9-5 job.

    Yup. That’s not the business model we operate with, alas (though I slightly think we have different ideas of what rewarding means - there's not an immaterial proportion of people here making 7 figures)
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,115
    Different people go to work for different reasons. Priorities also change with time for different people. If your company is set up on the expectation that people sacrifice their life and work lots of hours they aren't getting paid for, then there's something wrong with the business model. Those demands also act as a filter both to the sort of people willing to do it (gender, personality type, etc) and can induce unintended effects in terms of trying to game the system.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Rick is starting to sound like a middle class live right vote left kind of guy.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    If it were true, why would that matter?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I've always been pro-making money.

    No shame in that.
    _
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    john80 said:

    Rick is starting to sound like a middle class live right vote left kind of guy.


    and that's bad, because....
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,115
    edited April 2022
    ..
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,298
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Surely this is Gen Z - millenials are getting a bit old now - some are in their 40's.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,492
    edited April 2022
    First.Aspect said:

    Different people go to work for different reasons. Priorities also change with time for different people. If your company is set up on the expectation that people sacrifice their life and work lots of hours they aren't getting paid for, then there's something wrong with the business model. Those demands also act as a filter both to the sort of people willing to do it (gender, personality type, etc) and can induce unintended effects in terms of trying to game the system.

    This. I'm sure my field isn't unique in having a culture of big name practices employing new graduates at pretty meagre salaries and expecting them to work late every night and weekends in return for having the name on their CV.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,298
    rjsterry said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Different people go to work for different reasons. Priorities also change with time for different people. If your company is set up on the expectation that people sacrifice their life and work lots of hours they aren't getting paid for, then there's something wrong with the business model. Those demands also act as a filter both to the sort of people willing to do it (gender, personality type, etc) and can induce unintended effects in terms of trying to game the system.

    This.
    I suspect that what Rick is referring to is quite common in professional services and FS - where people are expected to do this when they are 'climbing the greasy pole' with the possibility of high rewards in future if/when they make partner/senior management. Clearly not all will make it, but that's life in the Big City.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,115
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Different people go to work for different reasons. Priorities also change with time for different people. If your company is set up on the expectation that people sacrifice their life and work lots of hours they aren't getting paid for, then there's something wrong with the business model. Those demands also act as a filter both to the sort of people willing to do it (gender, personality type, etc) and can induce unintended effects in terms of trying to game the system.

    This.
    I suspect that what Rick is referring to is quite common in professional services and FS - where people are expected to do this when they are 'climbing the greasy pole' with the possibility of high rewards in future if/when they make partner/senior management. Clearly not all will make it, but that's life in the Big City.
    This as well. Defo the case in my line of work.

    But I tell you what, fewer graduates are willing to do it. By the same token they still expect the gravy train.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,492
    edited April 2022
    First.Aspect said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Different people go to work for different reasons. Priorities also change with time for different people. If your company is set up on the expectation that people sacrifice their life and work lots of hours they aren't getting paid for, then there's something wrong with the business model. Those demands also act as a filter both to the sort of people willing to do it (gender, personality type, etc) and can induce unintended effects in terms of trying to game the system.

    This.
    I suspect that what Rick is referring to is quite common in professional services and FS - where people are expected to do this when they are 'climbing the greasy pole' with the possibility of high rewards in future if/when they make partner/senior management. Clearly not all will make it, but that's life in the Big City.
    This as well. Defo the case in my line of work.

    But I tell you what, fewer graduates are willing to do it. By the same token they still expect the gravy train.
    As you said, the business model needs reviewing if it relies on hundreds of hours of unpaid overtime.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Please expand :)
    Call them what you want but the yoof entering the workforce were and always be workshy know it alls.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited April 2022
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Please expand :)
    Call them what you want but the yoof entering the workforce were and always be workshy know it alls.
    They're not know-it-alls.

    It's just a lack of ambition. There's a sort of pervasive "there's no way I'll get to their level" which is just not true. I guess a decade plus after the crash the "loadsa money" city vibe has dissipated.

    We work with some stupid bosses who earn a lot of money. I see that as an opportunity - it's not about how bright you are, it's just about doing the job well and properly and not taking short cuts.

    That's all there is to it. They seemed to have been a bit resigned to that being not far off, so I had to point them to the 28 year old who moved to the states and exclusively off his own work he's built nothing to earning himself $1-2m a year because he does the job properly and works hard. It's a sales formula and once you get onto it (not easy) it's the same formula for everyone - either you make it or you don't.

    There are plenty more intellectually challenging jobs around, and plenty that are less stressful, plus they won't get the ire of everyone you ever meet.

    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,115
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Please expand :)
    Call them what you want but the yoof entering the workforce were and always be workshy know it alls.
    They're not know-it-alls.

    It's just a lack of ambition. There's a sort of pervasive "there's no way I'll get to their level" which is just not true. I guess a decade plus after the crash the "loadsa money" city vibe has dissipated.

    We work with some stupid bosses who earn a lot of money. I see that as an opportunity - it's not about how bright you are, it's just about doing the job well and properly and not taking short cuts.

    That's all there is to it. They seemed to have been a bit resigned to that being not far off, so I had to point them to the 28 year old who moved to the states and exclusively off his own work he's built nothing to earning himself $1-2m a year because he does the job properly and works hard. It's a sales formula and once you get onto it (not easy) it's the same formula for everyone - either you make it or you don't.

    There are plenty more intellectually challenging jobs around, and plenty that are less stressful, plus they won't get the ire of everyone you ever meet.

    No one who has ever dealt with a recruitment consultant feels sorry for the ire.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    If ya have had a bad experience, you're not earning enough to get the good ones :)
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,115
    rick_chasey said:

    If ya have had a bad experience, you're not earning enough to get the good ones :)

    Probably right. What's enough?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited April 2022
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    If ya have had a bad experience, you're not earning enough to get the good ones :)

    Probably right. What's enough?
    Bottom end starts at £150k total and even then.. - ideally £200-250k plus.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,115
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    If ya have had a bad experience, you're not earning enough to get the good ones :)

    Probably right. What's enough?
    Bottom end starts at £150k total - ideally £200k plus.
    Close but no banana.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Please expand :)
    Call them what you want but the yoof entering the workforce were and always be workshy know it alls.
    They're not know-it-alls.

    It's just a lack of ambition. There's a sort of pervasive "there's no way I'll get to their level" which is just not true. I guess a decade plus after the crash the "loadsa money" city vibe has dissipated.

    We work with some stupid bosses who earn a lot of money. I see that as an opportunity - it's not about how bright you are, it's just about doing the job well and properly and not taking short cuts.

    That's all there is to it. They seemed to have been a bit resigned to that being not far off, so I had to point them to the 28 year old who moved to the states and exclusively off his own work he's built nothing to earning himself $1-2m a year because he does the job properly and works hard. It's a sales formula and once you get onto it (not easy) it's the same formula for everyone - either you make it or you don't.

    There are plenty more intellectually challenging jobs around, and plenty that are less stressful, plus they won't get the ire of everyone you ever meet.

    Surely the traditional route to riches is to set up on your own taking your clients with you?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited April 2022
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I literally gave a talk to the grads that it’s ok to want to make lots of money and that was the whole point of doing all this boring work the other day.

    They’re so good at all the “it’s about my career and working with great colleagues chat” and going home at 5:25 I got a bit worried they were missing the point.

    do you see why we hate millenials now?
    Please expand :)
    Call them what you want but the yoof entering the workforce were and always be workshy know it alls.
    They're not know-it-alls.

    It's just a lack of ambition. There's a sort of pervasive "there's no way I'll get to their level" which is just not true. I guess a decade plus after the crash the "loadsa money" city vibe has dissipated.

    We work with some stupid bosses who earn a lot of money. I see that as an opportunity - it's not about how bright you are, it's just about doing the job well and properly and not taking short cuts.

    That's all there is to it. They seemed to have been a bit resigned to that being not far off, so I had to point them to the 28 year old who moved to the states and exclusively off his own work he's built nothing to earning himself $1-2m a year because he does the job properly and works hard. It's a sales formula and once you get onto it (not easy) it's the same formula for everyone - either you make it or you don't.

    There are plenty more intellectually challenging jobs around, and plenty that are less stressful, plus they won't get the ire of everyone you ever meet.

    Surely the traditional route to riches is to set up on your own taking your clients with you?
    You can do, depends on the formula on offer, right?

    Tough market out there and it's hard to get the big big roles if you're not an established name with all that comes with that.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,492
    Anyway...

    Turns out the Russian drones are lashed together with a basic DSLR velcro-ed into position. More Japanese parts in the engine.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition

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