Poo tin... Put@in...
Comments
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Rick's actually ready to state his opinion on the military performance and stoic attitude if the fine hardy women and men in the Forces, although I do have an inkling he's likely to leave a pub if he ses 5 people together with short hair, so lets see what he says.TheBigBean said:
Failure to read the history books.MattFalle said:
wtaf are you on about Rick?rick_chasey said:
Brits really are an island mentality and I think they often forget how much being an island affects the collective psyche, not least in this context as the threat of invasion is always a long long way away.First.Aspect said:
People are people, but they've had a bit more to put up with over the years so are more tempered, perhaps.rick_chasey said:
What makes you say that? I'm all for dumping on Brits, but I really don't think this is deserved.First.Aspect said:
Me too, but I don't have enough understanding of the country or its history. As a whole they seem a lot more stoic than us lot, I know that much.
But in that context I think the Brits militarily anyway are fairly stoic. It's a professional army and we can slate it till the cows come home (and I certainly have, especially their performance in Afghanistan), but I think the actual men (and women) themselves are a pretty hardy lot, even if the support, kit and leadership is lacking.
Brits are a warrior nation.
And pray, tell me your opinion on the performance Afghan. I'm intrigued to read your insights..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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i'd say failure to read history books combined with a massively corrupt Afghani ruling sect and pisspoor future planning against a constantly evolving ideogically opposite enemy.TheBigBean said:
Failure to read the history books.MattFalle said:
wtaf are you on about Rick?rick_chasey said:
Brits really are an island mentality and I think they often forget how much being an island affects the collective psyche, not least in this context as the threat of invasion is always a long long way away.First.Aspect said:
People are people, but they've had a bit more to put up with over the years so are more tempered, perhaps.rick_chasey said:
What makes you say that? I'm all for dumping on Brits, but I really don't think this is deserved.First.Aspect said:
Me too, but I don't have enough understanding of the country or its history. As a whole they seem a lot more stoic than us lot, I know that much.
But in that context I think the Brits militarily anyway are fairly stoic. It's a professional army and we can slate it till the cows come home (and I certainly have, especially their performance in Afghanistan), but I think the actual men (and women) themselves are a pretty hardy lot, even if the support, kit and leadership is lacking.
Brits are a warrior nation.
And pray, tell me your opinion on the performance Afghan. I'm intrigued to read your insights..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Very much covered in the history books.MattFalle said:
i'd say failure to read history books combined with a massively corrupt Afghani ruling sect and pisspoor future planning against a constantly evolving ideogically opposite enemy.TheBigBean said:
Failure to read the history books.MattFalle said:
wtaf are you on about Rick?rick_chasey said:
Brits really are an island mentality and I think they often forget how much being an island affects the collective psyche, not least in this context as the threat of invasion is always a long long way away.First.Aspect said:
People are people, but they've had a bit more to put up with over the years so are more tempered, perhaps.rick_chasey said:
What makes you say that? I'm all for dumping on Brits, but I really don't think this is deserved.First.Aspect said:
Me too, but I don't have enough understanding of the country or its history. As a whole they seem a lot more stoic than us lot, I know that much.
But in that context I think the Brits militarily anyway are fairly stoic. It's a professional army and we can slate it till the cows come home (and I certainly have, especially their performance in Afghanistan), but I think the actual men (and women) themselves are a pretty hardy lot, even if the support, kit and leadership is lacking.
Brits are a warrior nation.
And pray, tell me your opinion on the performance Afghan. I'm intrigued to read your insights.0 -
...1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Orban. Bolsonaro.john80 said:
Of SC's 4 options I don't see why any restrictions would be lifted unless the fourth option is the way out for Russia. They are flailing about in Ukraine and quite frankly nothing other than a complete capitulation for Putin should be acceptable to the West. For example how can he even leave Russia now to engage with the world with clamours for trying him as a war criminal. Which Western leaders would want to stand on a stage and shake hands with that.johngti said:The last two won't be part of any discussions, pretty certain about that. My money would be on the second option (eventually, I hope). The key point will be when we start seeing western leaders begin to moderate their language to a less "macho" tone to ease the transition to non-war (peace might be a bit of a stretch for now).
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That's all pretty well covered in the history books.MattFalle said:
i'd say failure to read history books combined with a massively corrupt Afghani ruling sect and pisspoor future planning against a constantly evolving ideogically opposite enemy.TheBigBean said:
Failure to read the history books.MattFalle said:
wtaf are you on about Rick?rick_chasey said:
Brits really are an island mentality and I think they often forget how much being an island affects the collective psyche, not least in this context as the threat of invasion is always a long long way away.First.Aspect said:
People are people, but they've had a bit more to put up with over the years so are more tempered, perhaps.rick_chasey said:
What makes you say that? I'm all for dumping on Brits, but I really don't think this is deserved.First.Aspect said:
Me too, but I don't have enough understanding of the country or its history. As a whole they seem a lot more stoic than us lot, I know that much.
But in that context I think the Brits militarily anyway are fairly stoic. It's a professional army and we can slate it till the cows come home (and I certainly have, especially their performance in Afghanistan), but I think the actual men (and women) themselves are a pretty hardy lot, even if the support, kit and leadership is lacking.
Brits are a warrior nation.
And pray, tell me your opinion on the performance Afghan. I'm intrigued to read your insights.0 -
In an interesting 'crossing of the streams' MPs have been told that P&O had planned to replace sacked workers with Ukrainian & Russian crews, but that strategy has got somewhat derailed“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Is that a serious option? I mean,pinno said:
Option 5:surrey_commuter said:
Not being obtuse but what is that direction?shirley_basso said:A constant reminder that this is only going in one direction and it's a good way for NATO to 'show up' without showing up (for understandable reasons)
I still 4 options;
Ceasefire with Ukraine losing lots of land
Ukraine lose all land east of Dnieper
Borders return to last year
Borders return to pre 2014
Japan lobs a few missiles at Vladivostok.
Also, tell the Taliban that there's women being educated in Southern Russia.
So from what I've read it sounds like the top brass didn't really understand the situation, and the very fast rotation of troops and units, including leaders, in and out led to a lot of discontinuity - something the yanks didn't do, for example.MattFalle said:
Rick's actually ready to state his opinion on the military performance and stoic attitude if the fine hardy women and men in the Forces, although I do have an inkling he's likely to leave a pub if he ses 5 people together with short hair, so lets see what he says.TheBigBean said:
Failure to read the history books.MattFalle said:
wtaf are you on about Rick?rick_chasey said:
Brits really are an island mentality and I think they often forget how much being an island affects the collective psyche, not least in this context as the threat of invasion is always a long long way away.First.Aspect said:
People are people, but they've had a bit more to put up with over the years so are more tempered, perhaps.rick_chasey said:
What makes you say that? I'm all for dumping on Brits, but I really don't think this is deserved.First.Aspect said:
Me too, but I don't have enough understanding of the country or its history. As a whole they seem a lot more stoic than us lot, I know that much.
But in that context I think the Brits militarily anyway are fairly stoic. It's a professional army and we can slate it till the cows come home (and I certainly have, especially their performance in Afghanistan), but I think the actual men (and women) themselves are a pretty hardy lot, even if the support, kit and leadership is lacking.
Brits are a warrior nation.
And pray, tell me your opinion on the performance Afghan. I'm intrigued to read your insights.
There seems to have been a high amount of hubris going into the war about the UK's capability for 'hearts and minds' and other counter-insurgency which turned out to be so misplaced the Americans had to bail them out on multiple occasions
There is issues around kit and Brits getting a rep for begging and borrowing all sorts of yank equipment.
There is also an issue that reports of small groups of units going rogue re doctrine and basically committing war crimes which were *then* not followed up on by leadership, all the way to the top, hence you ended up with situations like that "shuffle off this mortal coil" video, more often that was even close to being necessary.
I think generally the Brits went in under prepared, under-provided, over-confident and didn't have the right procedures or kit in place to adjust to the situation and it sounds like the Yanks lost a lot of respect for the quality of the overall fighting force.
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and there i am nit even having read the history booksshirley_basso said:
That's all pretty well covered in the history books.MattFalle said:
i'd say failure to read history books combined with a massively corrupt Afghani ruling sect and pisspoor future planning against a constantly evolving ideogically opposite enemy.TheBigBean said:
Failure to read the history books.MattFalle said:
wtaf are you on about Rick?rick_chasey said:
Brits really are an island mentality and I think they often forget how much being an island affects the collective psyche, not least in this context as the threat of invasion is always a long long way away.First.Aspect said:
People are people, but they've had a bit more to put up with over the years so are more tempered, perhaps.rick_chasey said:
What makes you say that? I'm all for dumping on Brits, but I really don't think this is deserved.First.Aspect said:
Me too, but I don't have enough understanding of the country or its history. As a whole they seem a lot more stoic than us lot, I know that much.
But in that context I think the Brits militarily anyway are fairly stoic. It's a professional army and we can slate it till the cows come home (and I certainly have, especially their performance in Afghanistan), but I think the actual men (and women) themselves are a pretty hardy lot, even if the support, kit and leadership is lacking.
Brits are a warrior nation.
And pray, tell me your opinion on the performance Afghan. I'm intrigued to read your insights.
plus ca change.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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The sad thing is it is such a clusterfcuk that it will be the beginning of the end for everyone.tailwindhome said:In an interesting 'crossing of the streams' MPs have been told that P&O had planned to replace sacked workers with Ukrainian & Russian crews, but that strategy has got somewhat derailed
Why they got to this stage before the normal forewarning, requests for vol redundancy etc. smacks of a blend of incompetence and deliberate ambushing.
Can't see the company recovering now.0 -
The problem I see is that for Russia 1 or 2 are needed to come out saving some kind of face (possibly 3 if they are able to get formal recognition of Crimea and Donetsk as their land) whereas Ukraine probably sees 4 as ideal and 3 as the absolute bare minimum. They probably also feel, if the reports can be believed, that they could potentially push the Russians back to somewhere between 3 and 4 so be unprepared to compromise.surrey_commuter said:
Not being obtuse but what is that direction?shirley_basso said:A constant reminder that this is only going in one direction and it's a good way for NATO to 'show up' without showing up (for understandable reasons)
I still 4 options;
Ceasefire with Ukraine losing lots of land
Ukraine lose all land east of Dnieper
Borders return to last year
Borders return to pre 20140 -
Ouch. Looks like Odessa will be safe for a while. That’s one total write off, one on fire and probably doomed, and another smoking from the forward cargo loader. Top job UF.
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Spot the odd one out...
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Clothes a few sizes too big... tie down below the belt... terrible looking hair... he's going all in on the presidential look.0
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The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Until the UK does something about the City and its ties to various Kleptocracies I think the UK is marginalised in its struggle against authoritarianism, regardless of what else it does.Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/
We (rightly) criticise Switzerland for its hoards of Nazi gold. This is no different, just a bit more sophisticated and more service orientated.0 -
Are you saying it has not done anything?rick_chasey said:
Until the UK does something about the City and its ties to various Kleptocracies I think the UK is marginalised in its struggle against authoritarianism, regardless of what else it does.Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/
We (rightly) criticise Switzerland for its hoards of Nazi gold. This is no different, just a bit more sophisticated and more service orientated."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Depends on your perspective.Stevo_666 said:
Are you saying it has not done anything?rick_chasey said:
Until the UK does something about the City and its ties to various Kleptocracies I think the UK is marginalised in its struggle against authoritarianism, regardless of what else it does.Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/
We (rightly) criticise Switzerland for its hoards of Nazi gold. This is no different, just a bit more sophisticated and more service orientated.
Helping arm and train some of the Ukrainian Army is great.
Being a key player in helping prop up the gangsters and kleptocrats, including Putin himself, not so much.
It can be both, right?
But if we're of the view that Putin and the gov't he runs are the biggest problem here, and without him and his klepto supporters we wouldn't have a war to begin with, then I'd be hesitant to say the Brits are coming out of this smelling of roses.
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They're hardly going to out him as 'our man in Westminster' are they?Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/1 -
Stevo doesn't see that he's a sucker for propoganda...both from this and the Russian Gov't.0
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I'm just relatpyimg what has been written in the press. I think you're reading in between the lines here, Shirley.shirley_basso said:Stevo doesn't see that he's a sucker for propoganda...both from this and the Russian Gov't.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So you've missed all the anti Russian measures that have been put in place? Or just ignoring them because it doesn't suit your predetermined view?rick_chasey said:
Depends on your perspective.Stevo_666 said:
Are you saying it has not done anything?rick_chasey said:
Until the UK does something about the City and its ties to various Kleptocracies I think the UK is marginalised in its struggle against authoritarianism, regardless of what else it does.Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/
We (rightly) criticise Switzerland for its hoards of Nazi gold. This is no different, just a bit more sophisticated and more service orientated.
Helping arm and train some of the Ukrainian Army is great.
Being a key player in helping prop up the gangsters and kleptocrats, including Putin himself, not so much.
It can be both, right?
But if we're of the view that Putin and the gov't he runs are the biggest problem here, and without him and his klepto supporters we wouldn't have a war to begin with, then I'd be hesitant to say the Brits are coming out of this smelling of roses."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You're saying that Boris is a Russian agent and the Kremlin is slagging him off so as not to blow his cover?Pross said:
They're hardly going to out him as 'our man in Westminster' are they?Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Reference my point above.
It plays well into their hands that they can get the UK press to say how awful the UK's sanctions are, when it turns out all the oligarchs put their assets into blind trusts / sold them / moved them prior to the sanctions being enforced.
Nice smoke and mirrors to defend the Tories (who are financed to the tune of c.£2m by russian oligarchs and have Lord in the HoL)0 -
Bought and paid for.Stevo_666 said:
You're saying that Boris is a Russian agent and the Kremlin is slagging him off so as not to blow his cover?Pross said:
They're hardly going to out him as 'our man in Westminster' are they?Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/1 -
Precisely.surrey_commuter said:
building up offensive capability on Russia's borders would stop him from reallocating troops to Ukraine.pinno said:
Option 5:surrey_commuter said:
Not being obtuse but what is that direction?shirley_basso said:A constant reminder that this is only going in one direction and it's a good way for NATO to 'show up' without showing up (for understandable reasons)
I still 4 options;
Ceasefire with Ukraine losing lots of land
Ukraine lose all land east of Dnieper
Borders return to last year
Borders return to pre 2014
Japan lobs a few missiles at Vladivostok.
Also, tell the Taliban that there's women being educated in Southern Russia.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Oh, well if that's what the Kremlin says...Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition4 -
...0
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I mean Putin has been denouncing the decadent West for decades while being quite happy to indulge in as much decadent Western luxury as he can grab. So no, I don't think he'd have any trouble privately taking advantage of what the UK has to offer including one of his boys in the actual Holy, while publicly slagging us off. SOP as Matthew would say.Stevo_666 said:
You're saying that Boris is a Russian agent and the Kremlin is slagging him off so as not to blow his cover?Pross said:
They're hardly going to out him as 'our man in Westminster' are they?Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm of the view that they barely scratch the surface.Stevo_666 said:
So you've missed all the anti Russian measures that have been put in place? Or just ignoring them because it doesn't suit your predetermined view?rick_chasey said:
Depends on your perspective.Stevo_666 said:
Are you saying it has not done anything?rick_chasey said:
Until the UK does something about the City and its ties to various Kleptocracies I think the UK is marginalised in its struggle against authoritarianism, regardless of what else it does.Stevo_666 said:
The one named by the Kremlin as the most active anti-Russian leader?mrb123 said:
Spot the odd one out...
https://telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/24/ukraine-war-latest-russia-news-putin-peace-nato-zelensky/
We (rightly) criticise Switzerland for its hoards of Nazi gold. This is no different, just a bit more sophisticated and more service orientated.
Helping arm and train some of the Ukrainian Army is great.
Being a key player in helping prop up the gangsters and kleptocrats, including Putin himself, not so much.
It can be both, right?
But if we're of the view that Putin and the gov't he runs are the biggest problem here, and without him and his klepto supporters we wouldn't have a war to begin with, then I'd be hesitant to say the Brits are coming out of this smelling of roses.
As per this letter to the FT
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