Vuelta Stage 15 *Spoilers*

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Brambilla won 14:30 ahead of the fastest roadbook schedule (40kph).

I think that's quite exceptional, and makes the timecut look very stingy indeed.

They also classified it as the same difficulty as stage 13 (the one when the peloton came in 35 minutes down) despite having more climbing in a shorter time.

The 'large peloton' exemption exists because of stages like this when the co-effiecients aren't really suitable.

No_Ta_Doctor

TheBigBean wrote:

Brambilla took 2 hours 54 mins to win today. The grupetto arrived 54 mins later. That's really quite a long way behind no matter how you look at.

That may well just be a case of "hung for the sheep as the lamb", given the timecut was going to be a huge fight to make.

DeVlaeminck

larkim wrote:

Just watched the highlights. Have to say (and this may seem very naive) - Froome, what a plonker. He's one of the best time trialers in there, he was 11s back on the Contador / Quintana group and he didn't attempt to bridge. I know if would have been into the red early doors, but I'll bet he could have sat at the back of that group long enough for them to give up the idea of breaking away.

It was odd wasn't it. He'd already bridged one gap when the peloton split and seemed to have made it up to the front group - I was watching but not concentrating on it and I looked up and Contador was on the front and next thing there's a group out front and Froome isn't in it. Then like you say there looked to be an opportunity for him to try and get across but he probably looked about and thought too many had missed the move to make it worth chasing himself.

Pross

The thing I'm struggling to work out is how they appeared to lose an extra 30 minutes on the final climb. Kelly and Kirby said the remainder of the Sky team were 25 minutes down when Froome was on the last climb (I accept that meant the grupetto still had 10 extra miles or so to go but losing 30 minutes in 20 miles or so is quite an achievement!

kleinstroker

Pross wrote:

The thing I'm struggling to work out is how they appeared to lose an extra 30 minutes on the final climb. Kelly and Kirby said the remainder of the Sky team were 25 minutes down when Froome was on the last climb (I accept that meant the grupetto still had 10 extra miles or so to go but losing 30 minutes in 20 miles or so is quite an achievement!

Was there a coffee shop nearby?

blazing_saddles

itboffin

looking at those times and the placing of the rest of team sky i can't help but think mutiny on the ship, has Froome finally pissed off the team?

Richmond Racer 2

itboffin wrote:

looking at those times and the placing of the rest of team sky i can't help but think mutiny on the ship, has Froome finally pissed off the team?

Oooh arr Jim lad

Michelle will be FUMING

larkim

Its an interesting conspiracy theory, but I doubt it very much.

Boulting / Millar had it right in the commentary - when that group went away, there were 2 Tinkoff and 2 Movistar riders in that group, plus Contador and Quintana - 6 men with a vested interest in riding away. Behind them, there was Froome plus two teammates. 6 beats 3, and that was that. Sky just caught napping, and Froome (in my pet theory) missed a tactical opportunity.

blazing_saddles

The other ingredient that concocted this situation being there ain't no proper sprinter's here.

bobmcstuff

itboffin wrote:

looking at those times and the placing of the rest of team sky i can't help but think mutiny on the ship, has Froome finally pissed off the team?

Isn't it more likely Sky just told them/they decided to sit up and save themselves once they realised the situation was unsalvageable?

RichN95.

itboffin wrote:

looking at those times and the placing of the rest of team sky i can't help but think mutiny on the ship, has Froome finally pissed off the team?

The problem with that little theory is that on the few times they showed the gruppetto, Sky were riding hard on the front.

dish_dash

My man Quintana... that's the way to do it! Out on my own epic ride and thrilled to get back and watch this highlights of the stage... cracking!

Robert Millar alluded to a Contador organised Spanish ambush earlier in the week...

Sky were def dozy. Though I do worry that their easy day may mean they are fresher than Movi over the next few days... and of course the autobus shouldn't be thrown out...

itboffin

I think today was sky showing its complacency after years of bossing it, it still find it hard to believe the rest of the team couldn't coordinate to bring it back, something stinks

RichN95.

itboffin wrote:

I think today was sky showing its complacency after years of bossing it, it still find it hard to believe the rest of the team couldn't coordinate to bring it back, something stinks

Maybe they aren't quite the invincible super team that some (mostly detractors) make them out to be. Their Vuelta team is fairly ordinary and suffer two or three late withdrawls (unlike Movistar who have five of their Tour team)

Richmond Racer 2

Well, well...talking of Robert Millar and the Vuelta...Dries Devenyns has tweeted - and RT'd by Brian Holm, Meersman etc - the following:

@3sdevenyns: How about the motorbike's behaviour which certainly increased the time gap between front group and bunch?


Cuddles has a story or three about racing the Vuelta...

gsk82

itboffin wrote:

I think today was sky showing its complacency after years of bossing it, it still find it hard to believe the rest of the team couldn't coordinate to bring it back, something stinks

I think today showed why this sky squad I'd at the vuelta and not the tour. Can anyone imagine the tour team making such a balls up?

jscl

gsk82 wrote:

itboffin wrote:

I think today was sky showing its complacency after years of bossing it, it still find it hard to believe the rest of the team couldn't coordinate to bring it back, something stinks

I think today showed why this sky squad I'd at the vuelta and not the tour. Can anyone imagine the tour team making such a balls up?

Indeed. I'm sure there's a certain riders off of Froomey's tour list for the future too.

Konig is hardly a loyal lieutenant either at the moment, he's got his own plans and off at the end of the season too.

awavey

Pross wrote:

The thing I'm struggling to work out is how they appeared to lose an extra 30 minutes on the final climb. Kelly and Kirby said the remainder of the Sky team were 25 minutes down when Froome was on the last climb (I accept that meant the grupetto still had 10 extra miles or so to go but losing 30 minutes in 20 miles or so is quite an achievement!

Kirby did say he thought that group were so far back their transponders werent being picked up properly anymore, and the "25mins" was simply the biggest measurable time gap, given they were out of range, so they were expecting a much bigger gap by the finish, but obviously couldnt measure it or report it any differently

RichN95.

awavey wrote:

Pross wrote:

The thing I'm struggling to work out is how they appeared to lose an extra 30 minutes on the final climb. Kelly and Kirby said the remainder of the Sky team were 25 minutes down when Froome was on the last climb (I accept that meant the grupetto still had 10 extra miles or so to go but losing 30 minutes in 20 miles or so is quite an achievement!

Kirby did say he thought that group were so far back their transponders werent being picked up properly anymore, and the "25mins" was simply the biggest measurable time gap, given they were out of range, so they were expecting a much bigger gap by the finish, but obviously couldnt measure it or report it any differently

I think the transponders used for the timings on TV are actually mounted on the TV camera bikes, so if they stop filming them there's no more information. They usually get timings to the grupetto somehow. But due to the nature of the race and a wrong categorisation of the stage (IMO), meeting the time limit became impossible and they rode at the pace of the slowest up the climbs. Koen de Kort said it was the first time cut he's missed, but this Vuelta has been brutal and riders are really struggling.

Shadowrider

Sky really going to all lengths to try and prove they aren't doping.

DeVlaeminck

It was surprising how Sky were caught napping at the start. Once the gaps opened I just don't think they had the firepower but it was very sloppy to get caught out like that for the gaps to open. I thought that after yesterday they'd be keen to monitor the break and try and make sure as far as they could that a standard sized break with no GC threats got away but they were nowhere near the front.

Froome didn't look on it either - first off he had to bridge across when the bunch split in two and then missed the second break when that formed - maybe he was looking for his team and didn't want to take numbers with him and leave his team further back or maybe he was just trying to avoid using energy up early in the stage and thought there was no chance of that break staying away but you'd have thought that he would have been keeping Quintana in sight even if he didn't feel the need to follow Contador. Then of course while it has been pointed out that Contador was beaten up that last climb by several riders in his group the same could be said of Froome.

ddraver

Is it really so hard for people to accept that Sky cocked up?

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

Is it really so hard for people to accept that Sky cocked up?

Haven't most people accepted that? Froome more than his team to be fair.

ddraver

Well, there are sizable parts of cyclo-twitter that are calling all sorts...

We ve got a few here too it seems...

TheBigBean

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Then of course while it has been pointed out that Contador was beaten up that last climb by several riders in his group the same could be said of Froome.

Indeed, Contador and Froome climbed at about the same speed. Presumably Chavez was the quickest up the climb out of all the riders. It all largely reflected the amount of work done to that point.

TheBigBean

From Contador and Cycling News. My emphasis which I thought deserved to be highlighted in the absence of a former poster.

"I'm happy because the result on [Saturday's stage 14] did not really correspond with my form, I felt better than that," Contador said.

"Today I wasn't feeling so optimistic because the climbs weren't so hard, but I went out from the gun without knowing who I had on my wheel. I knew it was a dangerous gamble, but we got a great result. I had no idea, though, who was following me when I attacked.

"I got cramps in the last kilometre, but it was a nice spectacle. These sorts of stages are the kind that create a fanbase in the sport. I'll sleep a lot better tonight than I did yesterday."

He explained that he would have liked to have fought for the stage win when Quintana and eventual winner Gianluca Brambilla (Etixx-QuickStep) broke away, but he explained that he had used up too much energy in the first hour and a half, where the gap between the break and chasing group rose to nearly three minutes at one point.

"Looking at the overall, I have to be realistic, this year my two big objectives [the Tour and Vuelta] are not working out as I'd like. I lost Paris-Nice and Catalunya by just a few seconds. But I'm already thinking about next year.

"The nice thing is we tore up the script. We [Tinkoff] don't have many climbers, we don't have the power of Sky or Movistar, but they gave it everything and they did a spectacular job."

TheBigBean

ddraver wrote:

Is it really so hard for people to accept that Sky cocked up?

Why is it always about Sky though? Froome messed up. He had one wheel to follow and didn't.

OBE messed up too though. As apparently did Astana.

r0bh

Sky DS Dario Cioni talked about some sort of crash which held up Froome or some other Sky riders at the time of the initial split - anyone know anything about this?

But yeah, if Froome had glued himself to Quintana's back wheel none of this would have happened, regardless of the rest of his team.

larkim

So, can Froome find 3:37 in the TT or find some bonus time somewhere else on a flat stage? He's found time on flat stages on the TdF in the past when he's taken advantage of something odd happening (cross winds etc etc). Is that possible now he's on the back foot, or will he be ruthlessly marked out of it by Quintana's team? If Quintana loses this now....