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Vuelta Stage 15 *Spoilers*

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  • Riders Left if time-cut enforced
    Movistar 8
    Tinkoff 6
    Cannondale 6
    Astana 5
    Lampre 5
    Orica - GreenEdge 4
    Caja Rural 4
    AG2R 4
    Trek, Katusha, Etixx, IAM, BMC 3
    Dimension Data, Cofidis, Lotto-Soudal, Giant-Alpecin 2
    Sky, FDJ, Bora Argon, Lotto NL-Jumbo 1
    Direct Energie 0

    I can't help but think that a number of teams wouldn't mind the order of the boot, but it isn't going to happen, even though it took the race jury sooooo ling to make it's mind up.
    Quelle surprise.

    That would really mess things up a bit. In my heart I feel as though they should have been booted, rules really have to mean something don't they?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    That would really mess things up a bit. In my heart I feel as though they should have been booted, rules really have to mean something don't they?
    And the rules have been followed.

    Wanting over half the peloton thrown out the race for no real good reason (were the peloton worse today than they were on stage 13) shows a distinct lack of empathy.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • squiredsquired Posts: 1,216
    If it was a big mountain day I would feel for the guys outside the time cut. However, it wasn't and clearly a lot of riders just didn't fancy chasing. I'd kick them out, as it would make for some very interesting scenarios in the last week. However, I'm sure the likes of Sky are saying they will just quit the race if it happens.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,764
    The commissaries can increase the time limit in "exceptional circumstances". Today's exceptional circumstances were that a large group of riders couldn't be bothered on a short not especially challenging stage which didn't involve any crashes or other such racing incidents.
  • RichN95 wrote:
    That would really mess things up a bit. In my heart I feel as though they should have been booted, rules really have to mean something don't they?
    And the rules have been followed.

    Wanting over half the peloton thrown out the race for no real good reason (were the peloton worse today than they were on stage 13) shows a distinct lack of empathy.

    These guys are pros, empathy should not come into it. As Bean says they just couldn't be arsed
  • "The code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules'

    :wink:
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    The commissaries can increase the time limit in "exceptional circumstances". Today's exceptional circumstances were that a large group of riders couldn't be bothered on a short not especially challenging stage which didn't involve any crashes or other such racing incidents.

    Having watched it from the flag and after yesterday's exertions, I'd say it was a flipping especially challenging stage.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Well the stage was raced at brutal speed, right from the start, no? And being short, there were no filler miles at slower speed where the break and the peloton come to an agreement that 9 minutes is fine for now, nobody needs to push it. That makes the time cut significantly shorter than it would be on a longer stage. To me that seems like a reasonable ground to make an exception especially considering that yesterday's stage was pretty hard work as well.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    The commissaries can increase the time limit in "exceptional circumstances". Today's exceptional circumstances were that a large group of riders couldn't be bothered on a short not especially challenging stage which didn't involve any crashes or other such racing incidents.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?

    The teams losing most riders would be seething at the injustice of it. Chris Froome would seize upon this feeling to lead a rebellion. At the start line tomorrow he would deliver a rabble rousing speech that Mel Gibson's Braveheart would be proud of, but with the panache and style of Johnny Depp's Jack Sparrow. Gathering a motley crew of riders from the following:

    Orica - GreenEdge 4
    Caja Rural 4
    AG2R 4
    Trek, Katusha, Etixx, IAM, BMC 3
    Dimension Data, Cofidis, Lotto-Soudal, Giant-Alpecin 2
    Sky, FDJ, Bora Argon, Lotto NL-Jumbo 1

    he would build himself a 40 man team with which he would savagely raid the remaining stages, distributing winnings evenly to all who ride with him. The Vuelta would be won easily.


    It's obvious, really.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    "The code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules'

    :wink:
    The Vuelta rules are so badly drafted that they don't actually say that riders missing the time cut will be eliminated. So if we're going by the letter of the law...
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    The commissaries can increase the time limit in "exceptional circumstances". Today's exceptional circumstances were that a large group of riders couldn't be bothered on a short not especially challenging stage which didn't involve any crashes or other such racing incidents.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?

    The teams losing most riders would be seething at the injustice of it. Chris Froome would seize upon this feeling to lead a rebellion. At the start line tomorrow he would deliver a rabble rousing speech that Mel Gibson's Braveheart would be proud of, but with the panache and style of Johnny Depp's Jack Sparrow. Gathering a motley crew of riders from the following:

    Orica - GreenEdge 4
    Caja Rural 4
    AG2R 4
    Trek, Katusha, Etixx, IAM, BMC 3
    Dimension Data, Cofidis, Lotto-Soudal, Giant-Alpecin 2
    Sky, FDJ, Bora Argon, Lotto NL-Jumbo 1

    he would build himself a 40 man team with which he would savagely raid the remaining stages, distributing winnings evenly to all who ride with him. The Vuelta would be won easily.


    It's obvious, really.

    Now, I'd pay to see that
  • Can't believe how Sky could be so amateurish today. There's no excuse for daydreaming in any stage, but that's exactly what they did.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,764
    TheBigBean wrote:
    The commissaries can increase the time limit in "exceptional circumstances". Today's exceptional circumstances were that a large group of riders couldn't be bothered on a short not especially challenging stage which didn't involve any crashes or other such racing incidents.

    Having watched it from the flag and after yesterday's exertions, I'd say it was a flipping especially challenging stage.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?

    I also watched the whole stage. The riders that rode on the front (of each group) had a pretty rough day. The rest didn't.

    No idea, but given Movistar numbers probably not that much different. Maybe Valverde would attack. Don't think it has ever happened.

    I'm just saying that letting them off without any meaningful sanction makes a mockery of it though. I'm normally very sympathetic to the time limits.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458

    Having watched it from the flag and after yesterday's exertions, I'd say it was a flipping especially challenging stage.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?
    I expect that all the teams with three riders or less would walk out en masse. And then send rubbish teams to Univega races (if at all).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBean wrote:
    The commissaries can increase the time limit in "exceptional circumstances". Today's exceptional circumstances were that a large group of riders couldn't be bothered on a short not especially challenging stage which didn't involve any crashes or other such racing incidents.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?

    The teams losing most riders would be seething at the injustice of it. Chris Froome would seize upon this feeling to lead a rebellion. At the start line tomorrow he would deliver a rabble rousing speech that Mel Gibson's Braveheart would be proud of, but with the panache and style of Johnny Depp's Jack Sparrow. Gathering a motley crew of riders from the following:

    Orica - GreenEdge 4
    Caja Rural 4
    AG2R 4
    Trek, Katusha, Etixx, IAM, BMC 3
    Dimension Data, Cofidis, Lotto-Soudal, Giant-Alpecin 2
    Sky, FDJ, Bora Argon, Lotto NL-Jumbo 1

    he would build himself a 40 man team with which he would savagely raid the remaining stages, distributing winnings evenly to all who ride with him. The Vuelta would be won easily.


    It's obvious, really.

    Now, I'd pay to see that



    Me too! Here's my wallet!
  • RichN95 wrote:
    "The code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules'

    :wink:
    The Vuelta rules are so badly drafted that they don't actually say that riders missing the time cut will be eliminated. So if we're going by the letter of the law...


    Is that so? Jaja ha, Ole!
  • jawoogajawooga Posts: 530
    Does the cut apply to TT also? And thus, is it easier or more difficult to sit up and have a day off? I guess any domestique without a stake in the GC will take it easy and slow the average speed down.
  • Mad_MalxMad_Malx Posts: 4,348
    jawooga wrote:
    Does the cut apply to TT also? And thus, is it easier or more difficult to sit up and have a day off? I guess any domestique without a stake in the GC will take it easy and slow the average speed down.

    +25% I think. Bernie Eisel was about 15 secs from elimination in the short mountain tt stage 18 of the tour this year.
  • jawooga wrote:
    Does the cut apply to TT also? And thus, is it easier or more difficult to sit up and have a day off? I guess any domestique without a stake in the GC will take it easy and slow the average speed down.


    Yes. Margin usually more generous for TTs
  • Mad_MalxMad_Malx Posts: 4,348
    Itv4 highlights did good job of showing how the initial gap happened.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Funny stage. It was like reverse of usual - All excitement near the start, then just settled into status quo.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,380
    Just watched the highlights. Have to say (and this may seem very naive) - Froome, what a plonker. He's one of the best time trialers in there, he was 11s back on the Contador / Quintana group and he didn't attempt to bridge. I know if would have been into the red early doors, but I'll bet he could have sat at the back of that group long enough for them to give up the idea of breaking away.
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  • ProssPross Posts: 29,076
    RichN95 wrote:
    That would really mess things up a bit. In my heart I feel as though they should have been booted, rules really have to mean something don't they?
    And the rules have been followed.

    Wanting over half the peloton thrown out the race for no real good reason (were the peloton worse today than they were on stage 13) shows a distinct lack of empathy.

    These guys are pros, empathy should not come into it. As Bean says they just couldn't be arsed

    So you would have had pretty much the whole race including all the top riders eliminated on Friday? That was a far more obvious case of riders not being arsed and saving themselves for the days ahead. Also, whoever it was saying the stage was short seems to be missing the point, that's when the percentage rule is most likely to be exceeded as it equates to less time whilst the pace is generally harder.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Contador beaten by Felline, De La Cruz and Elissonde today, uphill.
  • Brambilla won 14:30 ahead of the fastest roadbook schedule (40kph).

    I think that's quite exceptional, and makes the timecut look very stingy indeed.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,960
    edited September 2016
    my guess is the early attack was pre planned by Contador and Nario but they lucked out with team sky taking a nap at the start
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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,764
    Joelsim wrote:
    Contador beaten by Felline, De La Cruz and Elissonde today, uphill.

    You do sometimes completely miss the point.
  • Pross wrote:
    Also, whoever it was saying the stage was short seems to be missing the point, that's when the percentage rule is most likely to be exceeded as it equates to less time whilst the pace is generally harder.

    I said the stage was short, and I was making that exact point. No filler kms that everyone rides the same pace but that add minutes to the cut.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • RichN95 wrote:

    Having watched it from the flag and after yesterday's exertions, I'd say it was a flipping especially challenging stage.

    Hypothetically, lets say they'd thrown them off the race: how do we think the third week would pan out for this Vuelta?

    Any offers?
    I expect that all the teams with three riders or less would walk out en masse. And then send rubbish teams to Univega races (if at all).

    I think those with 2 or less, certainly. Not really viable to function within a race, never mind a GT, solo.

    Interesting point you make about the stage 13 rest up. Who was leading that? Movistar. What followed? A weekend of carnage, caused in the most part by them.
    What follows today? A mainly downhill stage followed by.............a rest day.
    So, which stage really had a duplicitous motive?
    Go figure.

    Anyhow, none of that has owt to do with whether they given them the boot or not.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,764
    Brambilla took 2 hours 54 mins to win today. The grupetto arrived 54 mins later. That's really quite a long way behind no matter how you look at.
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