Rio Olympic Track events *Spoilers*

Daz555

Dinyull wrote:

Dyer showed the chief commissaire, Germany’s Alex Donike, the BC footage, arguing that it was “too close to call” to disqualify Kenny.

I'd rather they just left them to it tbh.

The person who MAKES the final call is not even trackside, so completely shielded from any pressure if any was applied.

Looked to me like GB Staff were calm and professional about it all and it looks like they have helped out the German as well.

dinyull

Would they have been so "fair play" if Kenny wasn't for the chop?

Yes, they used the same camera for the German, but they wouldn't really have been able to say no after using to clear Kenny.

The correct decisions were made in the end, I just found it a bit uncomfortable. I wouldn't have been happy with the German or Malaysian coaching staff if it had been the other way round.

dinyull

It's not like hot-headed footballers crowding a ref, although I think that's how some see it.

Yeah, this is how I saw it. Just because they aren't screaming and shouting doesn't mean they aren't trying to influence the refs.

dinyull

neonriver wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Dyer showed the chief commissaire, Germany’s Alex Donike, the BC footage, arguing that it was “too close to call” to disqualify Kenny.

I'd rather they just left them to it tbh.

Leave an Olympic medal up to a camera angle that isn't showing it in the right perspective no chance.

If that was the setup for the whole meet then yes.

dinyull

Daz555 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Dyer showed the chief commissaire, Germany’s Alex Donike, the BC footage, arguing that it was “too close to call” to disqualify Kenny.

I'd rather they just left them to it tbh.

The person who MAKES the final call is not even trackside, so completely shielded from any pressure if any was applied.

Looked to me like GB Staff were calm and professional about it all and it looks like they have helped out the German as well.

So they didn't make the decision from GB's footage then?

davidof

mfin wrote:

Track all over then, another great performance overall from GB.

French not happy (read comments)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-pist ... ste/717916

Daz555

davidof wrote:

mfin wrote:

Track all over then, another great performance overall from GB.

French not happy (read comments)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-pist ... ste/717916

They moaned about our wheels being too round in London - which was superb when someone pointed out Team GB used French Mavic wheels on all its bikes.

Pross

Dinyull wrote:

Dyer showed the chief commissaire, Germany’s Alex Donike, the BC footage, arguing that it was “too close to call” to disqualify Kenny.

I'd rather they just left them to it tbh.

It's an allowable part of the process though. There's something similar in gymnastics where the coaches approach the judges to get the level of difficulty reviewed if they feel it has been marked too low.

Daz555

Dinyull wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Dyer showed the chief commissaire, Germany’s Alex Donike, the BC footage, arguing that it was “too close to call” to disqualify Kenny.

I'd rather they just left them to it tbh.

The person who MAKES the final call is not even trackside, so completely shielded from any pressure if any was applied.

Looked to me like GB Staff were calm and professional about it all and it looks like they have helped out the German as well.

So they didn't make the decision from GB's footage then?

I would make an educated guess that the additional footage reinforced the "too close to call" angle.

We also have the derny rider who seemed to me at least to be very slow to leave the track completely and as Hoy suggested - perhaps he stopped accelerating as he exited as riders normally expect.

Pross

davidof wrote:

mfin wrote:

Track all over then, another great performance overall from GB.

French not happy (read comments)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-pist ... ste/717916

French in 'angry at no longer being a cycling superpower' shock.

tangled_metal

One guy talking to one official. Team sports often have captains who communicate with referees in situations such as a potential penalty or dq. It's perfectly fair IMHO since these decisions are so.important to get right in such events.

The final, overall decision maker is kept separate. The trackside officials are listening to input from a head coach, indeed any converged head coach could also offer their input. It's fair, open and transparent in that It's being filmed, any concerned team coach can give their input and if BC has the missing footage then it's actually good information being communicated.

I think people believe they made the right and fair decision in both cases. The second one was potentially more likely to result in a dq than the first without the BC footage. So overall, what is the problem? You don't like the look of what is accepted, permitted and fair process? One senior coach not the whole coaching staff were involved afterall.

mfin

davidof wrote:

mfin wrote:

Track all over then, another great performance overall from GB.

French not happy (read comments)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-pist ... ste/717916

I'm not sure I'd conclude a whole nation isn't happy just from comments on an article, although some responses are expected.

That said, this forum being primarily UK posters is not very balanced sometimes either. A lot of people will always be blinkered by being patriotic towards the UK just like the French will on a website for a French publication like that. It's just what people a lot of people are like.

DeVlaeminck

Dinyull wrote:

It's not like hot-headed footballers crowding a ref, although I think that's how some see it.

Yeah, this is how I saw it. Just because they aren't screaming and shouting doesn't mean they aren't trying to influence the refs.

Why wouldn't you try and influence the refs though - you've spent 4 years and a few million quid on it you are going to try and keep your rider in the contest or you aren't doing your job.

In any case the German had over lapped the derny in qualification at least as much as Kenny did in the final as he did again in the restart so the final decision was consistent with what went before and after.

dinyull

Would you get your U15 girls team to try and influence the ref or do it yourself?

I've said a few times now, the correct decision(s) were made. I might be totally wrong, but my initial thoughts on seeing the GB coach talking with the comms was "I wish he wasn't doing that".

davidof

mfin wrote:

davidof wrote:

mfin wrote:

Track all over then, another great performance overall from GB.

French not happy (read comments)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-pist ... ste/717916

I'm not sure I'd conclude a whole nation isn't happy just from comments on an article, although some responses are expected.

It is obviously people who are engaged with l'equippe who are commenting. I notice some of the more knowledgeable cyclists are more moderate with their comments.

Certainly the UK position is totally dominant. The French situation can be explained somewhat: lack of investment, poor management but what of other teams? Same issues as the French?

Anonymous

They used to have great coaching but the French said they were too harsh so the coach quit to join GB I heard

Richmond Racer 2

I've posted this before re Australia but I hear tell of soft coaching staff and egos allowed to shake things too much

They also have Worlds and Workd Cups as part & parcel of their targets to secure funding.

Whereas UK Sport's approach is 'here's the funding for the next full 4 year cycle'

Richmond Racer 2

coriordan wrote:

They used to have great coaching but the French said they were too harsh so the coach quit to join GB I heard

Justin Grace, sprint coach

The GB sprinters won 3 golds and 3 silvers

The French sprinters win 0



Bauge and his ego allowed to run unchecked by the French team management

Anonymous

Cheers RR. I think I was probably just paraphrasing something you had written previously.

Ridiculous.

It's a shame that our funding is Olympic based and other nations are WC based which means it's unlikely that the nations are aligned at any one time, but as has been said, it allows a 4 year cycle to properly try and test improvements.

neonriver

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

coriordan wrote:

They used to have great coaching but the French said they were too harsh so the coach quit to join GB I heard

Justin Grace, sprint coach

The GB sprinters won 3 golds and 3 silvers

The French sprinters win 0



Bauge and his ego allowed to run unchecked by the French team management

They did manage to sneak a team sprint bronze

Team sprint is a good place to look at differences between teams. Bauge is man 1 and knocking out 17.3's and has done for years. He also is there main match sprinter this means he can't to the specific training required for man 1. GB NZ and Germany have guys knocking out 16.9s and 17.0s, based on specific training for the role. You can't give away 3 tenths and expect to win now. For comparison GB were 6th at the world and everyone was disappointed but knock 3 tenths off of there time and there suddenly in gold medal match!

neonriver

Another thing is GB were not as poor at WC's during this cycle as people think.

In the 4 world champs between Olympic GB won 26 medals 12 of them gold. They also led the medal table at 2 World Champs and were 4th in another. Yes Paris last year was awful with only 3 silvers but the rest hasn't been that bad!

In the same time frame

Australia won 32 medals 11 of them gold.

Germany won 31 medals 13 of them gold.

France won 19 medals 11 of them gold.

ContrelaMontre

neonriver wrote:

Another thing is GB were not as poor at WC's during this cycle as people think.

In the 4 world champs between Olympic GB won 26 medals 12 of them gold. They also led the medal table at 2 World Champs and were 4th in another. Yes Paris last year was awful with only 3 silvers but the rest hasn't been that bad!

In the same time frame Australia won 32 medals 11 of them gold.

You're on dangerous ground bringing 'facts' to an internet forum

Daz555

Yep you can prove anything with "facts" as you call them and they are not welcome here. What we require is speculation and jumping to conclusions.

If we all rocked up with "facts" this forum would last 5 minutes.... ;-)

neonriver

ContrelaMontre wrote:

neonriver wrote:

Another thing is GB were not as poor at WC's during this cycle as people think.

In the 4 world champs between Olympic GB won 26 medals 12 of them gold. They also led the medal table at 2 World Champs and were 4th in another. Yes Paris last year was awful with only 3 silvers but the rest hasn't been that bad!

In the same time frame Australia won 32 medals 11 of them gold.

You're on dangerous ground bringing 'facts' to an internet forum

I know I did the same on Twitter last night and the shit storm that came next was a sight to see!

daniel_b

neonriver wrote:

Another thing is GB were not as poor at WC's during this cycle as people think.

In the 4 world champs between Olympic GB won 26 medals 12 of them gold. They also led the medal table at 2 World Champs and were 4th in another. Yes Paris last year was awful with only 3 silvers but the rest hasn't been that bad!

In the same time frame

Australia won 32 medals 11 of them gold.

Germany won 31 medals 13 of them gold.

France won 19 medals 11 of them gold.

Fine work Sir, that just goes to prove what a load of sour grapes this is, and how some people are talking nonsense.

Right, I'm off for a ride in the sunshine! 8)

DeVlaeminck

Dinyull wrote:

Would you get your U15 girls team to try and influence the ref or do it yourself?

I've said a few times now, the correct decision(s) were made. I might be totally wrong, but my initial thoughts on seeing the GB coach talking with the comms was "I wish he wasn't doing that".

I get the players to try and influence the ref in as much as if they think they should get a free kick or throw in (for example) they should appeal for that. I wouldn't do it myself because I consider it inappropriate to start shouting at the ref from the sideline in youth football for a number of reasons which are probably not relevant here unless you wish me to elucidate.

I don't see what your problem is with the GB coaches having an input. It's adult to adult making their case - so long as it stays within the accepted boundaries of the sport (such as appealing for a throw or free kick in football) then it isn't unsportsmanlike. My guess is that if GB hadn't presented that camera footage that at least one of Kenny and Awang would have been DQed. Why take the risk of that happening - can you imagine if Kenny is DQed and then afterwards the coaches say yes we had camera evidence that you didn't infringe the rules but we didn't want to appear to be breaching track etiquette !

andcp

Is it too early to start a "Trotty for SPOTY" campaign?

Richmond Racer 2

:oops: I managed to blank out the French TS bronze medal

dav1d1

Bit of hate going on the typical media outlets for Laura trotts sister for what she said in her interview with good morning Britain today!

Daz555

Dav1d1 wrote:

Bit of hate going on the typical media outlets for Laura trotts sister for what she said in her interview with good morning Britain today!

...and of course she said nowt wrong. She was honest and sincere and said some very appropriate things....twitterati simply upset that she was not in a state of giddy worship for her almighty younger sister.

Of course being honest is what did her. Being a former athlete and being told or asked about Trott's work rate she was honest to say that Trott works no more or less had than any other elite cyclist. Joe Twitter does not want to hear that of course.