Rio Olympics *Spoilers*
Comments
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TheBigBean wrote:Can't Cavendish just ride one of the early easy rounds and pick up a cheap medal later?
I guess the answer is no. Presumably due to the risk of something going wrong. The Aussie women's TP took a mighty tumble yesterday and I suppose the thinking is that the TP team is working so well together they don't want to disrupt it.
Didn't the same thing happen in 2012 with the women's squad? Wendy Houvenaghel didn't ride so missed out on the medals.0 -
Slowbike wrote:Flasher wrote:PuttyKnees wrote:What upset me was the fact that the guy just stood there filming her. Jesus Christ, put the phone down and apply some first aid. How can someone stand there like that? Just unbelievable.
Yeah right just what you need some random administering roadside diy first aid, you realise that could do way more harm than good :roll:
Hmm - checking breathing and pulse is a nescesity - 1 minute of no oxygen to the brain and braincells start to die. After 3 minutes it's likely for the patient to have serious brain damage - after 10 minutes of no oxygen to the brain they are unlikely to recover - there are exceptions - this is general guidance.
I think I could see that she was breathing in the rather grainy video - if someone's breathing you can expect them to have a pulse - but it's not obvious that that check was done - either by the spectator or by the moto rider.
It was 2 minutes from the crash to the time of medical attention - you could see her hand moving which was a bit of a relief. However, had she not been in that position (breathing and heart rate) then it would've been significantly more serious than it was.
So yes - some random checking breathing and pulse is preferable to doing nothing.
it's a hard lesson I ve had to learn but learn it I have recently, If you don't know what you re doing (and a cub scout first aid badge is not knowing what you re doing) then it's best to wait until the Cavalry arrives - especially as in that case it really will be quick). That said he could have put the phone down and comforted her a bit. Just soothing noises and a bit of human contact.
However the bystander filming on a phone phenomenom is becoming a genuine psychological curiosity so we must be careful how we judge people. I can't be the only one whose frozen at those sorts of times and just stood there like a lemon (then felt like a total moron afterwards...)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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ddraver wrote:
it's a hard lesson I ve had to learn but learn it I have recently, If you don't know what you re doing (and a cub scout first aid badge is not knowing what you re doing) then it's best to wait until the Cavalry arrives - especially as in that case it really will be quick). That said he could have put the phone down and comforted her a bit. Just soothing noises and a bit of human contact.
All of the above.
However the bystander filming on a phone phenomenom is becoming a genuine psychological curiosity so we must be careful how we judge people. I can't be the only one whose frozen at those sorts of times and just stood there like a lemon (then felt like a total moron afterwards...)
Dissociative, innit. See something horrible? Looking at it through a screen means it isn't real.
/amateurpoppsychologyTeam My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Cav isn't one of the 4 guys breaking the WR in training. No amount of Cav love will change that. Cav has made a lot of improvements but it's still Clancy, Wiggins, Doull, Burke - and then Cav some way after that.
On another note, Dibben couldn't be considered for selection - I know that as of the time of the selection announcement he was still getting a lot of pain in his arm that made his TT position really painful. Tennant had been struggling a bit for form in training for a while, I believe.
You don't go chancing a round by replacing one of your best with someone whose posting times not in the same ballpark, in the Olympic event. You just don't. Unless one of your 4 are crocked.
I suspect Cav is having a last minute wobble about his Omnium chances. Just get back to focusung on that cos that's why you were picked, Cav0 -
Delete - dupe post0
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dish_dash wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Can't Cavendish just ride one of the early easy rounds and pick up a cheap medal later?
I guess the answer is no. Presumably due to the risk of something going wrong. The Aussie women's TP took a mighty tumble yesterday and I suppose the thinking is that the TP team is working so well together they don't want to disrupt it.
Didn't the same thing happen in 2012 with the women's squad? Wendy Houvenaghel didn't ride so missed out on the medals.
And Tennant in 20120 -
ddraver wrote:[
it's a hard lesson I ve had to learn but learn it I have recently, If you don't know what you re doing (and a cub scout first aid badge is not knowing what you re doing) then it's best to wait until the Cavalry arrives - especially as in that case it really will be quick). That said he could have put the phone down and comforted her a bit. Just soothing noises and a bit of human contact.
.)
If anyone has done first aid and know enough to check breathing then I'd say do it, if they aren't breathing then it's simple enough to move the head into a position so the tongue wont obstruct the airway and do chest compressions to keep the blood flowing to the brain. In fact do you really need to know first aid to do those three things? I'd want a cubscout to do what they had been taught rather than leave me on the ground not breathing.
I've done a few first aid courses, I wouldn't really say I knew what I was doing beyond those few simple things but on all the courses the instructor has said doing something is usually better than nothing.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:dish_dash wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Can't Cavendish just ride one of the early easy rounds and pick up a cheap medal later?
I guess the answer is no. Presumably due to the risk of something going wrong. The Aussie women's TP took a mighty tumble yesterday and I suppose the thinking is that the TP team is working so well together they don't want to disrupt it.
Didn't the same thing happen in 2012 with the women's squad? Wendy Houvenaghel didn't ride so missed out on the medals.
And Tennant in 2012
Remind me, did he throw his toys as well?
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Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Cav isn't one of the 4 guys breaking the WR in training. No amount of Cav love will change that. Cav has made a lot of improvements but it's still Clancy, Wiggins, Doull, Burke - and then Cav some way after that.
On another note, Dibben couldn't be considered for selection - I know that as of the time of the selection announcement he was still getting a lot of pain in his arm that made his TT position really painful. Tennant had been struggling a bit for form in training for a while, I believe.
You don't go chancing a round by replacing one of your best with someone whose posting times not in the same ballpark, in the Olympic event. You just don't. Unless one of your 4 are crocked.
I suspect Cav is having a last minute wobble about his Omnium chances. Just get back to focusung on that cos that's why you were picked, Cav
I'm struggling to believe Cav really thought he'd get a ride in the TP? The only chance (other than illness/injury) would have been in the semi if they thought they could beat their opponents easily. And then it would have been a pretty soft medal. Tennant wasn't used in 2012 when he was as strong as other members of the team (wasn't Geraint Thomas struggling a bit going into London or am I mis-remembering?) so I never thought Cav would be used except in an emergency.0 -
dish_dash wrote:Richmond Racer 2 wrote:dish_dash wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Can't Cavendish just ride one of the early easy rounds and pick up a cheap medal later?
I guess the answer is no. Presumably due to the risk of something going wrong. The Aussie women's TP took a mighty tumble yesterday and I suppose the thinking is that the TP team is working so well together they don't want to disrupt it.
Didn't the same thing happen in 2012 with the women's squad? Wendy Houvenaghel didn't ride so missed out on the medals.
And Tennant in 2012
Remind me, did he throw his toys as well?
Not at the time :-)
Did an Owen Slot interview for the Times just ahead of the World's the following year, went into a lot of stuff about his disappointment over not getting a ride in any of the rounds, and how it was handled. And then unfortunately kind of undermined it by delivering a not-great performance at the World's.0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:ddraver wrote:[
it's a hard lesson I ve had to learn but learn it I have recently, If you don't know what you re doing (and a cub scout first aid badge is not knowing what you re doing) then it's best to wait until the Cavalry arrives - especially as in that case it really will be quick). That said he could have put the phone down and comforted her a bit. Just soothing noises and a bit of human contact.
.)
If anyone has done first aid and know enough to check breathing then I'd say do it, if they aren't breathing then it's simple enough to move the head into a position so the tongue wont obstruct the airway and do chest compressions to keep the blood flowing to the brain. In fact do you really need to know first aid to do those three things? I'd want a cubscout to do what they had been taught rather than leave me on the ground not breathing.
I've done a few first aid courses, I wouldn't really say I knew what I was doing beyond those few simple things but on all the courses the instructor has said doing something is usually better than nothing.
@DDraver - I see what you're saying - but checking for breathing and a pulse is the second thing you do on arrival at a casualty (first checking that there's no further danger) - if they are breathing and there is a pulse then yes - wait for the cavalry especially if it will be there quickly - but otherwise, no - no point waiting 2 minutes for the cavalry when they're not getting oxygen to their brain.
btw - I don't have cub scout first aid - I've done a couple of sport instructor first aid courses and I'd limit my ability to the bear minimum - it wouldn't have taken much to check her pulse & breathing (which they may well have done - just not on camera) - you can't rely on the cavalry being there in a sensible time as you don't know what may occur up to that point.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:dish_dash wrote:Richmond Racer 2 wrote:dish_dash wrote:TheBigBean wrote:Can't Cavendish just ride one of the early easy rounds and pick up a cheap medal later?
I guess the answer is no. Presumably due to the risk of something going wrong. The Aussie women's TP took a mighty tumble yesterday and I suppose the thinking is that the TP team is working so well together they don't want to disrupt it.
Didn't the same thing happen in 2012 with the women's squad? Wendy Houvenaghel didn't ride so missed out on the medals.
And Tennant in 2012
Remind me, did he throw his toys as well?
Not at the time :-)
Did an Owen Slot interview for the Times just ahead of the World's the following year, went into a lot of stuff about his disappointment over not getting a ride in any of the rounds, and how it was handled. And then unfortunately kind of undermined it by delivering a not-great performance at the World's.
He was very disappointed again this time. Was it not mentioned on here that it was he that leaked the Yates positive story? I've no idea if the events are connected, if true.2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
I think he is behind some of the leaks - as JSDL has posted here. Not sure about the Yates leak specifically. Whether maliciously intended or not, shooting your mouth off to a journo mate isn't likely to win him friends.0
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First aid has changed since i did it with st John's ambulance 20 odd years ago. For example back then the theory was to give them air (mouth to mouth) then chest compressions in a certain ratio of breaths to compressions. Now they say chest compressions first because there's enough oxygen in the blood it just needs to get where it's needed. That means compressions first.
In light of that I'd seriously worry about being first to administer first aid in such a situation. I've got no liability cover. I think I'd still consider it if she had no breathing signs.
Surely you'd keep a team together if it's working well. No soft rides/medals for a celebrity cyclist no matter how popular or well known he was. Surely it's important to keep the dynamics of the team going. Any break from the same 4 riders might result in a lack of communication with the stand in and worse with the returning first choice rider. I'm guessing it's not like track relays such as 4x100m where they practice with the main choice but also with second choice. With that discipline they can be and do rest runners if they have enough breadth of talent.0 -
Watching the actual Cav interview... those tweets a bit out of context / sensationalized.0
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Richmond Racer 2 wrote:I think he is behind some of the leaks - as JSDL has posted here. Not sure about the Yates leak specifically. Whether maliciously intended or not, shooting your mouth off to a journo mate isn't likely to win him friends.
Indeed.
He tries to play all things to all men and always out to make a quick buck.Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/scalesjason - All posts are strictly my personal view.0 -
She's one of the least prone to that. Unlike most sports media she used to be a proper journalist.Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Twitter: @RichN950 -
yup - they tweak the details from time to time - I'm no medic - but I don't think the specifics of breaths to chest compression ratio matters enormously providing it's started asap (where needed!) - then the medics can take over when they get there.Tangled Metal wrote:First aid has changed since i did it with st John's ambulance 20 odd years ago. For example back then the theory was to give them air (mouth to mouth) then chest compressions in a certain ratio of breaths to compressions. Now they say chest compressions first because there's enough oxygen in the blood it just needs to get where it's needed. That means compressions first.
In light of that I'd seriously worry about being first to administer first aid in such a situation. I've got no liability cover. I think I'd still consider it if she had no breathing signs.
I'd worry about having to do it - only in case of a misdiagnosis (ie can't get a pulse but there is one) and the fact that you could have someones life in your hands. Liability cover? difficult one - too flippin American for my liking.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
Feed out a few juicy quotes, then release the full interview and everyone is gagging to see it. Feign surprise and indignation when called out on Twitter. Sit back on enjoy the clicks.
2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
I did the emergency one recently and they said if there are no breaths then just get going on CPR. Checking for pulse is too hard, can be done wrongly and hard to do if erratic/slow pulses and unlikely to be easy in the heat of the moment.0
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RichN95 wrote:
She's one of the least prone to that. Unlike most sports media she used to be a proper journalist.Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
Ach, give over. Irrespective of her previous assignments, this has been standard clickbait play0 -
Daniel Friebe @friebos · 1h1 hour ago
The headlines/soundbites widely culled from this today much more sensationalistic than what he actually says.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:If anyone has done first aid and know enough to check breathing then I'd say do it, if they aren't breathing then it's simple enough to move the head into a position so the tongue wont obstruct the airway and do chest compressions to keep the blood flowing to the brain. In fact do you really need to know first aid to do those three things? I'd want a cubscout to do what they had been taught rather than leave me on the ground not breathing.
I've done a few first aid courses, I wouldn't really say I knew what I was doing beyond those few simple things but on all the courses the instructor has said doing something is usually better than nothing.
Seriously, I wouldn't want you anywhere near me after a big accident, even if she's not breathing you don't move the head as it could be enough to paralyse someone with a neck injury and the way Van Vleuten went down that would be a massive consideration. You leave the head in position and pull the jaw down to fish the tongue out, however if the person's breathing you leave well alone, till the experts arrive.0 -
The British people have had enough of experts.0
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Flasher wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:If anyone has done first aid and know enough to check breathing then I'd say do it, if they aren't breathing then it's simple enough to move the head into a position so the tongue wont obstruct the airway and do chest compressions to keep the blood flowing to the brain. In fact do you really need to know first aid to do those three things? I'd want a cubscout to do what they had been taught rather than leave me on the ground not breathing.
I've done a few first aid courses, I wouldn't really say I knew what I was doing beyond those few simple things but on all the courses the instructor has said doing something is usually better than nothing.
Seriously, I wouldn't want you anywhere near me after a big accident, even if she's not breathing you don't move the head as it could be enough to paralyse someone with a neck injury and the way Van Vleuten went down that would be a massive consideration. You leave the head in position and pull the jaw down to fish the tongue out, however if the person's breathing you leave well alone, till the experts arrive.
This makes no sense to me, if your not breathing then your in real trouble, dead or brain dead vs possible paralysis, I think I'd want someone to try and keep me alive first of all.0 -
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