Rio Olympics *Spoilers*

salsiccia1

ddraver wrote:

Presumably any road on any hill in the area is going to have the same design so unless you literally build a road for the 2 events I'm not sure what could realistically been done unless we just had a lap of the copacabana seafront for 6 hours

It's a combination of the tortuous bends with the nasty kerbing that made it so dangerous. Riders come off on descents quite regularly but in most cases don't end up with fractured vertebrae/pelvises.

There was a climb and descent used in the other circuit that wasn't as dangerous. I suspect that they wanted to get the Vista Chinese (sp?) in for the spectacle, and that overrode the safety concerns of the difficult road.

davidof

Tangled Metal wrote:

davidof wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Correct me if.I'm wrong

You're wrong. He didn't just turn up and ride the tour prologue a couple of times but rode a lot of road events with the GAN team. He was well respected by his fellow pros back in the day. He probably knows as well as Millar what he's talking about.

Fair enough on Boardman.

Has any other old pro said anything about the route? Despite Boardman's expertise I'm still not 100% satisfied. Anyone else supporting his vocal opinion questioning the choice of the route down that road?

You're right It is just one opinion. I didn't see any complaints from any Pros I vaguely follow who test rode the course beforehand.

RichN95.

The problem with the descent was that it was unforgiving of mistakes. In European races the riders more often then not get back up or can correct themselves on a run off area. But this was narrow and had storm gutters and other obstacles down the sides. Only Thomas crashed and avoided finishing his race in an ambulance.

jscl

RichN95 wrote:

The problem with the descent was that it was unforgiving of mistakes. In European races the riders more often then not get back up or can correct themselves on a run off area. But this was narrow and had storm gutters and other obstacles down the sides. Only Thomas crashed and avoided finishing his race in an ambulance.

That's because he's 'ard as nails, from Wales.

salsiccia1

JSCL wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The problem with the descent was that it was unforgiving of mistakes. In European races the riders more often then not get back up or can correct themselves on a run off area. But this was narrow and had storm gutters and other obstacles down the sides. Only Thomas crashed and avoided finishing his race in an ambulance.

That's because he's 'ard as nails, from Wales.

Still ended up going to hospital, mind

TheBigBean

Straw bales on the gutters would have helped, but presumably because they are standard issue no one thought about it.

Nibali (and Henao?) seemed to break himself in the middle of the road though, so it wouldn't have helped him.

jscl

Salsiccia1 wrote:

JSCL wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The problem with the descent was that it was unforgiving of mistakes. In European races the riders more often then not get back up or can correct themselves on a run off area. But this was narrow and had storm gutters and other obstacles down the sides. Only Thomas crashed and avoided finishing his race in an ambulance.

That's because he's 'ard as nails, from Wales.

Still ended up going to hospital, mind

Pretty sure that was misreported and he didn't go to hospital.

ddraver

Amateur video of the crash and aftermath - goes with out saying its not an easy watch. The confusion on the marshalls faces isnt great but they do do the important thing and keep anyone else from hitting her.

http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/amateurvi ... -b6efe05f/

davidof

Found one, George Bennett said the "tight corners and slick roads" might be dangerous after test riding the course.

It is true that Boardman talked about the dangers of the gutters before the event.

DeVlaeminck

Straw bales in the gutters would have been about all they could do - wouldn't need to be all the way round just on the outside of the worst bends. Even so I don't think it was an outrageous descent to use, in hindsight yes the risk could have been mitigated but when you see some of the drop offs in the mountains or sheer rock faces this wasn't a uniquely dangerous descent. What really contributed to the number of injuries was the position on the course close to the finish - probably no coincidence that a number of those worst affected were trying to get a winning gap on the descent.

ddraver

The obvious thing after AvV is to have filled in the gutters, at least at the edge of the corner so that riders couldnt land in them so horribly. Given that there seem to have been crashes on specific corners too, some marking could have been used to make sure the riders knew they were approaching a particularly bad one - as is used in MTB. But then thats not the roadie way...

The rest, i have to agree with DeV. If Froome had stacked on the Perysourde there would have been precious little sympathy. No difference here in terms of racing and in both races we saw that taking the descent a bit slower didnt leave pure climbers enough leeway at the foot of the descent to stay away. I suspect it was an accident but in that respect it was a great bit of course design.

TheBigBean

ddraver wrote:

Amateur video of the crash and aftermath - goes with out saying its not an easy watch. The confusion on the marshalls faces isnt great but they do do the important thing and keep anyone else from hitting her.

http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/amateurvi ... -b6efe05f/

She was down for a long time without any care. It's interesting to see the reaction of the ordinary punter "Oi oi oi" (Hi hi hi). Not a criticism as I have no idea what you're supposed to do in a situation like that.

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

Only Thomas crashed and avoided finishing his race in an ambulance.

Alaphillipe hit the deck too, didn't he?

davidof

TheBigBean wrote:

She was down for a long time without any care. It's interesting to see the reaction of the ordinary punter "Oi oi oi" (Hi hi hi). Not a criticism as I have no idea what you're supposed to do in a situation like that.

Given the nature of the crash, not move them unless they are in immediate danger. They need to have a neck brace and back board which a trained medic would have to do.

The_Boy

ddraver wrote:

The obvious thing after AvV is to have filled in the gutters, at least at the edge of the corner so that riders couldnt land in them so horribly.

Straw bales wrapped in red/white tape would have been cheap and easy. That said, there was netting alongside the road on some sections so a risk-assessment had obviously been carried out.

Was the crash and/or injury count really unusually high?

TheBigBean

davidof wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

She was down for a long time without any care. It's interesting to see the reaction of the ordinary punter "Oi oi oi" (Hi hi hi). Not a criticism as I have no idea what you're supposed to do in a situation like that.

Given the nature of the crash, not move them unless they are in immediate danger. They need to have a neck brace and back board which a trained medic would have to do.

I'm not sure that is true for someone who is unconscious.

craigus89

TheBigBean wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Amateur video of the crash and aftermath - goes with out saying its not an easy watch. The confusion on the marshalls faces isnt great but they do do the important thing and keep anyone else from hitting her.

http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/amateurvi ... -b6efe05f/

She was down for a long time without any care. It's interesting to see the reaction of the ordinary punter "Oi oi oi" (Hi hi hi). Not a criticism as I have no idea what you're supposed to do in a situation like that.

Yeah, the conventional wisdom is not to move them in case they have spinal or neck injuries. I need to do some googling as to why that is recommended.

jscl

Back to the Men's RR for a second..

I've just been reminded of this and I'm bet the Belgians are glad nothing ever happened now...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/belgian ... -avermaet/

Garry H

Craigus89 wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Amateur video of the crash and aftermath - goes with out saying its not an easy watch. The confusion on the marshalls faces isnt great but they do do the important thing and keep anyone else from hitting her.

http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/amateurvi ... -b6efe05f/

She was down for a long time without any care. It's interesting to see the reaction of the ordinary punter "Oi oi oi" (Hi hi hi). Not a criticism as I have no idea what you're supposed to do in a situation like that.

Yeah, the conventional wisdom is not to move them in case they have spinal or neck injuries. I need to do some googling as to why that is recommended.

First priority is to make sure that the are breathing and that the air passage is unhindered. If this means moving them, then move them.

Dorset_Boy

I was surprise from that video that no one checked to see if she had swallowed her tongue.
Not at all nice seeing her lying completely still for so long - guess she was unconscious.

awavey

ddraver wrote:

Cillian Kelly was pointing out to all that would listen that there had been a test event on that course and no one had complained. He went rather quiet after AvV's crash but he has a point...

That would be the men's test event...glad AvV is ok enough to be communicating from hospital after that, I thought I saw on some of the bends padding/foam so someone id'd the risk,yes it's next to impossible to guard against every possible crash point, but it looked risky & dangerous,it doesn't bear thinking what could have happened in a rain affected race

FocusZing

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/rac ... ium=Social

Some countries are down for two people in TT, so Geraint Thomas should be in.

rich_e

After watching that video from the spectator, I honestly think that they should have just neutralized or stopped the race at that stage and allowed the medics to get through as quickly as possible. There was also a real danger that somebody could have hit her, which was kind of silly that the marshal was asking the guy not to stand in the road near her. I suppose though that holding the race would have to be a commissionaire or medical call, and neither of them got there for a few minutes during which she was still unconscious.

Putting myself in the guy's shoes, I'm also not sure what I would do. You obviously want to try and make sure they are breathing and to try and talk to her, but I'd be so worried that moving her would be the wrong thing to do.

jscl

Rich_E wrote:

After watching that video from the spectator, I honestly think that they should have just neutralized or stopped the race at that stage and allowed the medics to get through as quickly as possible. There was also a real danger that somebody could have hit her, which was kind of silly that the marshal was asking the guy not to stand in the road near her. I suppose though that holding the race would have to be a commissionaire or medical call, and neither of them got there for a few minutes during which she was still unconscious.

Putting myself in the guy's shoes, I'm also not sure what I would do. You obviously want to try and make sure they are breathing and to try and talk to her, but I'd be so worried that moving her would be the wrong thing to do.

The quickest way to allow the medics to get through, is to allow the racing to continue, especially as they were already on to the descent.

It's very easy to criticise watching the videos that are out there, but the moto marshall did the right job with his whistle and pushing the riders over to advise of a caution. It's also right that a race official/moto advised a member of the public to step away, because he was actually blocking the view of the rider coming from down the hill.

A tough shout for everyone really, but I think the right calls were made. It's really hard to move service and medical around when it comes to those kind of descents. But keeping your cool goes a long way.

kingstongraham

FocusZing wrote:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/olympics/rio-2016-olympic-games-mens-time-trial-start-list-272682?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

Some countries are down for two people in TT, so Geraint Thomas should be in.

The rules say "In the event of force majeure (fall, illness, etc.), a reserve athlete from other Cycling disciplines may be entered for the Individual Time Trial, to fill a quota place obtained by the NOC."

Doesn't sound like it can go to another country, but we'll see.

tailwindhome

Just wondering would a painted line marking were the road edge drops to gutter have helped safety

jscl

TailWindHome wrote:

Just wondering would a painted line marking were the road edge drops to gutter have helped safety

I think rewatching yesterday's big accident, her line wasn't too bad going in to the corner, she just took it too fast and maybe even an application of brakes at the wrong time.

I think it would have been 'helpful' in general, but wouldn't have any bearing on yesterday.

dinyull

Lines, although a visual aid, could have cause more spills especially with the rain that started to fall yesterday. Would have certainly took away another foot or so of road they would have been able to use.

DeVlaeminck

JSCL wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Just wondering would a painted line marking were the road edge drops to gutter have helped safety

I think rewatching yesterday's big accident, her line wasn't too bad going in to the corner, she just took it too fast and maybe even an application of brakes at the wrong time.

I think it would have been 'helpful' in general, but wouldn't have any bearing on yesterday.

She's way too tight coming in, the brakes throw her over the bars and maybe made it worse but she's hitting the deck by then it's just a matter of how.

germcevoy

I got alarmed after the Nibali crash at the number of vehicles that stopped on the bend. I was expecting a mass pile up as the rest of the race barrelled round the corner to meet a load of stationary traffic.

Undoubtedly a dangerous descent but if riders are wishing to push the risk envelope on those types of descents then bad accidents are going to happen.

Definitely the most dangerous event at these Olympics.