Lizzie
Comments
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Paul 8v wrote:
Haha, I love looking on there, it's insane.RichN95 wrote:
He'a not only aware of it, I think he used to be a moderator. (Suggesting a rider might be clean gets you a ban for trolling)Paul 8v wrote:
You should check out this place then: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewforum.php?f=20Wallace and Gromit wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Yet it's the topic you post about the most.Wallace and Gromit wrote:I should emphasise that I'm not particularly bothered about doping.
Sorry for not being clear - I'm not bothered whether folk dope or not. The subject of doping (procedures, excuses, reactions etc.) clearly fascinates me.
They basically state in one thread, as an absolute fact that Froome, Evans, Nibali and Lemond are all dopers and they can't understand why people worship them and not Floyd Landis
Wiggo is definitely not legit as he has a "high cadence"
Is it all some tongue in cheek joke or are they actually lunatics?
It's funny since Lemond as near as said Froome was doping and using a motor in the Tour. You'd think they'd be on his side...0 -
Logic finds no breathing space in the Asylum
Landis is the One True God
Which is HILARIOUS0 -
RichN95 wrote:
He'a not only aware of it, I think he used to be a moderator. (Suggesting a rider might be clean gets you a ban for trolling)Paul 8v wrote:
You should check out this place then: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewforum.php?f=20Wallace and Gromit wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Yet it's the topic you post about the most.Wallace and Gromit wrote:I should emphasise that I'm not particularly bothered about doping.
Sorry for not being clear - I'm not bothered whether folk dope or not. The subject of doping (procedures, excuses, reactions etc.) clearly fascinates me.
Oh yes. Now that was fun. Not! What got posted was not even half the story. The reported post messages and PMs whinging that so and so had been mean were where the real action was! Some of the folk who passed themselves of as "insiders", apparently above the rough and tumble of forum life used to complain like schoolchildren.
Very few folk got banned. You either had to let everything bar the most outrageous stuff go or ban pretty much everyone as pretty much everyone violated one rule or another. I stepped aside after playing a prominent role in getting a well-known nutcase a lengthy ban. I felt my work was done at that point. I then got myself perma-banned for apparently repeatedly trying to log in with the wrong details. It was actually a cookie issue, but the irony was sweet!0 -
There can be no logic applied it seems. Apart from British = Doper Russian = OK
I missed all the Lemond comments on the tour, seems a bit of a silly thing to say considering it's even easier to check for a motor than it is to detect a PED?0 -
Paul 8v wrote:Is it all some tongue in cheek joke or are they actually lunatics?
Based on my experience as a moderator, neither. They were mainly just angry children - possibly living in adult bodies - given too much internet access.0 -
Paul 8v wrote:There can be no logic applied it seems. Apart from British = Doper Russian = OK
I missed all the Lemond comments on the tour, seems a bit of a silly thing to say considering it's even easier to check for a motor than it is to detect a PED?
The Lemonds seem to give a lot of ear time to the PE teacher. That explains a lot.0 -
The tour organisers looking for evidence tried to break into Froome's bike on Ventoux while he was still riding it.0
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Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Logic finds no breathing space in the Asylum
Landis is the One True God
Which is HILARIOUS
Well... he is the only one that is actually providing drugs...0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:Hmm, he'd put in some reasonable performances before then, but admittedly with wild inconsistency (and lots of crashing). http://inrng.com/2011/08/chris-froome-vuelta-leader/
Maybe I'm being harsh, but decent/reasonable performances in your early/mid 20s are quite hard to convert to GT winning efforts in your mid/late 20s unless you've really been training badly.
If you've got the basic physiological material, you can get very close to your maximum potential off relatively unsophisticated training. Froome was racing as a pro from 2007 IIRC, and would have done a lot of high quality miles between 2007-2011. (I know some teams were a bit unsophisticated, but riding 30k kilometers per year including racing is going to tap into at least the mid 90s percent of what you're capable of.) So some prominent showings in one week stage races should surely have resulted from three or four years of even unsophisticated training of what must be - if he is legit - phenomenal physiology.
To achieve what Froome did pre 2011 based on such physiology would require actively going out of your way to train badly (or to be constantly slightly ill).
I can accept that it might take Sky's attention to detail to convert such performances into winning short stage races and to being competitive at longer stage races.
Cycling has a much larger skill element than athletics. I don't think Froome could ride no-hands until about 2012, I very much doubt his bunch skills were very good. That's going to have held him back from achieving his athletic potential.
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
Ref. Froome - he may have changed training, upped the volume under Sky's coaches etc, he's also significantly lighter.
It's also easier to win GTs when you have some of the best guys in the world looking after you for 90% of the race.
Also there are other more obvious reasons why mid-pack guys from that period might now be among the best, given a more legit playing field. He may well be at it, who knows.
On Farah:
- he was clearly way ahead of his peers as a kid / junior
- he was able to do well enough on the training levels he was doing in his early 20s - supported in £ terms from UKA etc.
- if you speak to those who trained with him then, he wasn't the most dedicated at the time, diet was a mess (loved a McDs apparently) but was still the best(ish) in the UK most of the time, so hadn't necessarily had the lightbulb moment that told him he could be world class if he upped his game (and he is not known as the brightest spark)
- there were flashes of the speed he now shows - ran a 1:48 800 when he was about 20 - pretty good for a non-specialist.
- Like our other now world beating endurance champ, he is a lot leaner than he was - I saw Mo run a 5000m in Solihull (we were watching right from the side of the track) back in '05, dragged along by some Kenyans to just about run 13:30. Frankly, at that time he looked fat compared to the Kenyan boys pacing him - clearly not the case now.
- the move from being coached in the UK by Alan Storey to going to Salazar is all mixed up in UKA politics, Nike, Ian Stewart etc. (allegedly....)
- Salazar has taken him on a level, no doubt, and we may never know if that is all through legit means or not. There is still an ongoing USADA investigation into NOP & Salazar I think?
- As has been highlighted above, Mo is not beating 26:30 or 12:40 guys in the champs. And almost every WC or OG race they let him turn into a mile race - somewhat silly when he is a 3:28 1500 guy and they aren't.
- Again, Farah may or may not be at it, and some of his associations don't help.0 -
ContrelaMontre wrote:Cycling has a much larger skill element than athletics. I don't think Froome could ride no-hands until about 2012, I very much doubt his bunch skills were very good. That's going to have held him back from achieving his athletic potential.
But he still lost lots of time uphill "in the old days" where skills are much less important.0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:Cycling has a much larger skill element than athletics. I don't think Froome could ride no-hands until about 2012, I very much doubt his bunch skills were very good. That's going to have held him back from achieving his athletic potential.
But he still lost lots of time uphill "in the old days" where skills are much less important.
He's a good few kilos (5-10?) lighter than the Barloworld years though, which will make a difference (as I know from bitter personal experience).
Barloworld doesn't sound like it was a particularly well organised or supported setup either.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:Wallace and Gromit wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:Cycling has a much larger skill element than athletics. I don't think Froome could ride no-hands until about 2012, I very much doubt his bunch skills were very good. That's going to have held him back from achieving his athletic potential.
But he still lost lots of time uphill "in the old days" where skills are much less important.
He's a good few kilos (5-10?) lighter than the Barloworld years though, which will make a difference (as I know from bitter personal experience).
Barloworld doesn't sound like it was a particularly well organised or supported setup either.
And considering there are still teams still trying to catch up to Sky's method's you'd have to imagine they were light years behind.0 -
YorkshireRaw wrote:Ref. Froome - he may have changed training, upped the volume under Sky's coaches etc, he's also significantly lighter.
It's also easier to win GTs when you have some of the best guys in the world looking after you for 90% of the race.
Also there are other more obvious reasons why mid-pack guys from that period might now be among the best, given a more legit playing field. He may well be at it, who knows.
On Farah:
- he was clearly way ahead of his peers as a kid / junior
- he was able to do well enough on the training levels he was doing in his early 20s - supported in £ terms from UKA etc.
- if you speak to those who trained with him then, he wasn't the most dedicated at the time, diet was a mess (loved a McDs apparently) but was still the best(ish) in the UK most of the time, so hadn't necessarily had the lightbulb moment that told him he could be world class if he upped his game (and he is not known as the brightest spark)
- there were flashes of the speed he now shows - ran a 1:48 800 when he was about 20 - pretty good for a non-specialist.
- Like our other now world beating endurance champ, he is a lot leaner than he was - I saw Mo run a 5000m in Solihull (we were watching right from the side of the track) back in '05, dragged along by some Kenyans to just about run 13:30. Frankly, at that time he looked fat compared to the Kenyan boys pacing him - clearly not the case now.
- the move from being coached in the UK by Alan Storey to going to Salazar is all mixed up in UKA politics, Nike, Ian Stewart etc. (allegedly....)
- Salazar has taken him on a level, no doubt, and we may never know if that is all through legit means or not. There is still an ongoing USADA investigation into NOP & Salazar I think?
- As has been highlighted above, Mo is not beating 26:30 or 12:40 guys in the champs. And almost every WC or OG race they let him turn into a mile race - somewhat silly when he is a 3:28 1500 guy and they aren't.
- Again, Farah may or may not be at it, and some of his associations don't help.
Re the USADA investigation, interestingly Tygart's team seem to be struggling to pull together a robust case to bring against Salazar for anti-doping violations - be they supply, administering, trafficking, whatever...0 -
Of course, if you believe in Omerta etc etc, USADA are "powerless" to intervene in the NOP / Nike / Salazar world. Easy to believe if you like wearing your tinfoil hat.
Salazar has made enough enemies for malicious rumour to spread easily and readily in fertile grounds. Unfortunately pros are just as liable to read message boards or hear rumour / innuendo, but then also have the platform from which to seemingly authoritatively announce "I've heard stories about athletes from XYZ camp", when in reality all they are doing is spreading the same rumours they read which have no substance.
Same is true for cycling I guess. Froome will never be able to prove he is clean in a way that will convince keyboard warriors across the world. And if you think that cyclingnews forum is bad, try letsrun.com - a whole message board dedicated to absurd rumours and nonsense "intelligence" about athletics!2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
Oh letsrun.com message boards are hilarious0
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Great fun isn't it.Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Oh letsrun.com message boards are hilarious
The obvious question is, if EPO is apparently so cheap now, and seems to be more or less harmless (unless you go mental and end up with jam for blood) - where do I get some? Be nice to not getting dropped on the club run climbs 0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:
Great fun isn't it.Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Oh letsrun.com message boards are hilarious
The obvious question is, if EPO is apparently so cheap now, and seems to be more or less harmless (unless you go mental and end up with jam for blood) - where do I get some? Be nice to not getting dropped on the club run climbs
Internet, Bobbus. Pays yer money, takes yer chance
Or according to a doctor acquaintance, hang around the back of Meadowhall where scallies flog their cancer treatment-prescribed EPO :-(0 -
Back OT this is interesting: https://rouleur.cc/journal/performance/ ... ts-and-why
"You have to tell people why you are there, but the athlete mustn’t know. You can’t ring their mobile – that would be advanced notice"
Supports Lizzie's statement that ringing her mobile is not an approved means of making contact. Which makes some sense - you ring them and they potentially have 5-10 minutes to do something devious ("I'm just in the shower" etc.)0 -
Re Mo...
Isn't it the case that his prime attribute is a very quick finish, but that if the race is faster it's blunted? It's certainly been suggested that he's susceptible to race tactics, but has got a little lucky with how the major championships have been raced recently. I seem to remember several races where the Kenyans in particular seemed to be racing each other, instead of ensuring a quick pace, and Mo took advantage.
That could also account for perceived improvement reasonably late in his career - both if there was a change in how races were run and if he changed his own tactics and training to suit (e.g. not going out too fast or going to the front).Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:
He's a good few kilos (5-10?) lighter than the Barloworld years though, which will make a difference (as I know from bitter personal experience).
Barloworld doesn't sound like it was a particularly well organised or supported setup either.
It's quite interesting to look at Froome's results around 2009. He came 34'th in the Giro. That's not winning it, but it shows you do have something. And there were a few good stage results.
Or the final TT in the 08 TdF - 14'th.
And in 11, he learnt a lot from Wiggins in how to ride in the bunch etc during the Vuelta.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:Isn't it the case that his prime attribute is a very quick finish, but that if the race is faster it's blunted? It's certainly been suggested that he's susceptible to race tactics, but has got a little lucky with how the major championships have been raced recently. I seem to remember several races where the Kenyans in particular seemed to be racing each other, instead of ensuring a quick pace, and Mo took advantage.
"A little lucky" might stack up for one medal but winning the six biggest 5000/10000 races in the last four years? I think that has to be put down to a bit more than luck don't you. As they say "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
And to previous posters who inferred his range from 1500m to 10000m was suspicious, his relatively poor showing at the marathon was conveniently forgotten of course :roll:0 -
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Jeez. She's all over the place. Not a surprise but hard to watchNapoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0
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2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0
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Ach get yourself out of there, lady0
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Germcevoy wrote:
Why would she not race - this is a huge event for her and sure she's under even more pressure than she would have been but this is what she devotes her life to.
It may be that the situation - not just her state of mind on the day but the loss of race prep and the pressure of the preceding weeks - means she under performs but there is only one way to find out and that is to race.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Germcevoy wrote:
Why would she not race - this is a huge event for her and sure she's under even more pressure than she would have been but this is what she devotes her life to.
It may be that the situation - not just her state of mind on the day but the loss of race prep and the pressure of the preceding weeks - means she under performs but there is only one way to find out and that is to race.
She just isn't in the right frame of mind. Maybe it will all disappear when she gets on the bike but she can feel what's hanging over her and she knows any medal she wins is going to be a curse.
She has made the trip so I'm sure she'll race but equally, I wouldn't be surprised to see her take a back seat.0 -
She looks like she hasn't slept for the last few days, she's cracked with emotion and strain0
