Lizzie

daniel_b

Pinno wrote:

I hold her up in such high regard as one of the UK's best sport people but more importantly, one of the best female road cyclists in the world. Why can't the past be in the past and she can move onwards and upwards?
I hope she keeps winning just so she p1sses off the detractors as they jump up and down and chuck the toys put of their holier-than-thou prams.

Could not agree more. Lot of people just love to see people brought down sadly.

inseine

RonB wrote:

But in each of those 2nd place results, teammate van der Breggen won. I know that the races have been notoriously difficult to follow, but part of me does wonder if Lizzie was riding within herself to a degree and following an agreed Boes-Dolmans plan.

I think yesterday (tour de Yorkshire) showed that the team have divided up the season, and Deignan has different goals.

awavey

inseine wrote:

RonB wrote:

But in each of those 2nd place results, teammate van der Breggen won. I know that the races have been notoriously difficult to follow, but part of me does wonder if Lizzie was riding within herself to a degree and following an agreed Boes-Dolmans plan.

I think yesterday (tour de Yorkshire) showed that the team have divided up the season, and Deignan has different goals.

but you see the way the press twist things, she wins TdY and the Telegraph headlines it "Lizzie Deignan defies team orders before soloing away to Tour de Yorkshire victory".

and you think huh, she defied team orders to win the race ? so read the article get past the inevitable paragraph about whereabout failures, and their story is it all hinged on the fact Danny Stam had just told her to wait for the sprint 15km out, but its hardly defying team orders to say no I think I can solo this, she knew the condition she was in, and has solo'd to victory before at the Nationals in Lincoln, slightly different class of field admittedly, but Im sure none of the team thought it was "defying" orders to do that.

I actually think early season shes been recovering from illness which knocked alot of the team out at various parts,they had to withdraw from Dwars Door Vlaanderen as they hadnt got enough fit riders and Boels have been using Amalie Dideriksen as lead rider in some races Lizzie might have been expected to be involved with otherwise, and Megan Guarnier has only just got back from the concussion she had from various crashes in the early races.

so yeah I think her season goals were probably focussed to TdY and then its Womens Tour, nationals, support at Giro etc etc which arent necessarily the same goals for the other riders on the team.

pinno

awavey wrote:

inseine wrote:

RonB wrote:

Bu...plan.

I think yesterday (tour de Yorkshire) showed that the team have divided up the season, and Deignan has different goals.

but'''...I actually think early season shes been recovering from illness...team.

She did mention illness and injury in that radio interview.

Do we make the assumption that she has shifted her attention to tours and mini tours instead of one day races? Is that on the back of not having quite the start she intended to the season or is this simply a shift in focus?
I don't know what the team make up consists of TBH.

thegibdog

I wonder if those who were insinuating things from her lack of wins will now insinuate things from the manner of her win yesterday...

pinno

thegibdog wrote:

I wonder if those who were insinuating things from her lack of wins will now insinuate things from the manner of her win yesterday...

Of course they will.

If she had carried on like last year prior to the Olympics and carried on into this year in the same vein, they would be calling her 'superhuman' with all the suggestions inherent in that. If she won very little, the insinuations would be about Lizzie - 'post doping'.
It's a no win scenario.

rick_chasey

Pinno wrote:

awavey wrote:

inseine wrote:

RonB wrote:

Bu...plan.

I think yesterday (tour de Yorkshire) showed that the team have divided up the season, and Deignan has different goals.

but'''...I actually think early season shes been recovering from illness...team.

She did mention illness and injury in that radio interview.

Do we make the assumption that she has shifted her attention to tours and mini tours instead of one day races? Is that on the back of not having quite the start she intended to the season or is this simply a shift in focus?
I don't know what the team make up consists of TBH.

Didn't she finish 2nd in Flèche & Liege?

thegibdog

The only one day race in which you could say that she has performed below expectations this year is Strade Bianche. And she came third in that.

pinno

Why are people still arguing the point? Look at the results from last year in comparison to this year. No one's saying that she isn't doing well this year but it still doesn't compare. Consider that all of the results (bar the Olympics were in the first half of the year, it's dominant. No bloke in history in the first 6/7 months of the year bar Merckx could boast this set of results, let alone any female:

Pinno wrote:

1st Jersey yellow Overall The Women's Tour
1st Jersey light blue Best British rider classification
1st Stage 3
1st Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
1st Strade Bianche
1st Trofeo Alfredo Binda
1st Tour of Flanders
1st Boels Rental Hills Classic
5th Road race, Olympic Games, 1st Gold medal Team time trial.
4th UCI Road World Championships

So far this year:

2nd Amstel Gold Race
2nd La Flèche Wallonne Féminine
2nd Liège–Bastogne–Liège
3rd Strade Bianche
Overall TdY

rick_chasey

Pinno wrote:

Why are people still arguing the point?

Cos we think you're wrong.

I don't think her results being weaker this year over last year is a sign she is focusing on stage races over one dayers.

I think it says her form isn't quite what it was last year.

Richmond Racer 2

Agreed

Worth adding to add to this discussion:

Off season 2015-16, she was caning the climbing in training. Everything was geared towards being able to compete on the Rio course. In contrast, this past off-season was a different story: she got married, she was crook at some point which disrupted training, and she's taken a different approach to the start of the season - different goals, different motivators

Also... van den Breggen moved over to Boels-Dolman from Rabo-Liv. She's the best women's rider in the world this year

Put these things together....and yeah, her form isn't what it was last year - but it was unstoppable first half of last year

pinno

Which is roughly the point I made. Is this contradiction for contradiction''s sake?

Pinno wrote:

awavey wrote:

inseine wrote:

RonB wrote:

Bu...plan.

I think yesterday (tour de Yorkshire) showed that the team have divided up the season, and Deignan has different goals.

but'''...I actually think early season shes been recovering from illness...team.

She did mention illness and injury in that radio interview.

Do we make the assumption that she has shifted her attention to tours and mini tours instead of one day races? Is that on the back of not having quite the start she intended to the season or is this simply a shift in focus?
I don't know what the team make up consists of TBH.

thegibdog

Pinno wrote:

Why are people still arguing the point?

Because you're listing races that haven't even happened yet this year. An accurate comparison of major results up to this point in the season would be:

Last year:
1st Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
1st Strade Bianche
1st Trofeo Alfredo Binda
1st Tour of Flanders

This year:
1st Tour de Yorkshire
2nd Amstel Gold Race*
2nd La Flèche Wallonne Féminine*
2nd Liège–Bastogne–Liège*
3rd Strade Bianche

* denotes that she set up her teammate for the win.

It's fair to say that the 2nd half of last season didn't go as well as expected for her, but I can't see how you can argue that her results this year don't compare to last year's.

pinno

4 firsts to this point in time as opposed to 1 first this year?

We'll just agree to disagree.

Besides, (and I will re-iterate) I am not saying she's having a bad year, just not as good as last year.

rick_chasey

Pinno wrote:

4 firsts to this point in time as opposed to 1 first this year?

We'll just agree to disagree.

Besides, (and I will re-iterate) I am not saying she's having a bad year, just not as good as last year.

It was more the posturing thereafter that she must therefore be targeting stage races.

thegibdog

Pinno wrote:

4 firsts to this point in time as opposed to 1 first this year?

We'll just agree to disagree.

Besides, (and I will re-iterate) I am not saying she's having a bad year, just not as good as last year.

You realise that cycling is a team sport, right?

Anyone who has watched Ardennes week would
apreciate that it could've just as easily been Deignan that won those races.

As an aside, this also makes the story about Deignan defying team orders at the Tour de Yorkshire all the more laughable.

pinno

Rick Chasey wrote:

It was more the posturing thereafter that she must therefore be targeting stage races.

A point I also made and took into consideration previously:

Pinno wrote:

Do we make the assumption that she has shifted her attention to tours and mini tours instead of one day races? Is that on the back of not having quite the start she intended to the season or is this simply a shift in focus?
I don't know what the team make up consists of TBH.

davidof

So a win in the GP Plouay last weekend ahead of PFP (that must have been quite sweet)

https://youtu.be/fT_62NleMPU

Deignan was then in hospital to have her appendix out



causing the BBC to write "Worlds doubts" stories: http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/41111202

but a hospital stay didn't stop her starting the 6 day Boels Dolman tour and getting 9th in the Prologue

https://youtu.be/oV5_ksNUybY

if you are looking for something other than the Vuelta then the tour is in the Limburg hills this weekend.

awavey

davidof wrote:

So a win in the GP Plouay last weekend ahead of PFP (that must have been quite sweet)

https://youtu.be/fT_62NleMPU

Deignan was then in hospital to have her appendix out


causing the BBC to write "Worlds doubts" stories: http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/41111202

but a hospital stay didn't stop her starting the 6 day Boels Dolman tour and getting 9th in the Prologue

no she started the 6day Boels Rental tour, made it to the end of stage 2, then had to abandon and was taken ill with appendicitis and ended up in hospital to have her appendix out, hence the concern about starting the worlds because its the 23rd, essentially 3 weeks today, and no-ones really sure about recovery time needed for an appendix operation, it really should be about 10 days Id have thought before she should consider getting back on a bike and I still think they recommend you take it easy at first, not go compete in a World championship road race, so what that does to her tapering her prep or what I dont know.

and theres no plan B is there at some point BC have to submit the names of the riders for the team though we have full allocation this time and sure she'll still be on the list, but Ive been struggling to think of who theyd pick for the other riders to necessarily support Lizzie, would they then pick different riders to hedge their bets and try and support two different riders.

even Cav still thinks he is doubtful for the Worlds, and yet is happy to start the ToB.

Mad_Malx

I'm guessing the clinic have their own version on this.

davidof

Thanks for the correction and update

kingstonian

awavey wrote:

davidof wrote:

So a win in the GP Plouay last weekend ahead of PFP (that must have been quite sweet)

https://youtu.be/fT_62NleMPU

Deignan was then in hospital to have her appendix out


causing the BBC to write "Worlds doubts" stories: http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/41111202

but a hospital stay didn't stop her starting the 6 day Boels Dolman tour and getting 9th in the Prologue

no she started the 6day Boels Rental tour, made it to the end of stage 2, then had to abandon and was taken ill with appendicitis and ended up in hospital to have her appendix out, hence the concern about starting the worlds because its the 23rd, essentially 3 weeks today, and no-ones really sure about recovery time needed for an appendix operation, it really should be about 10 days Id have thought before she should consider getting back on a bike and I still think they recommend you take it easy at first, not go compete in a World championship road race, so what that does to her tapering her prep or what I dont know.

and theres no plan B is there at some point BC have to submit the names of the riders for the team though we have full allocation this time and sure she'll still be on the list, but Ive been struggling to think of who theyd pick for the other riders to necessarily support Lizzie, would they then pick different riders to hedge their bets and try and support two different riders.

even Cav still thinks he is doubtful for the Worlds, and yet is happy to start the ToB.

I think both he and his team want him to use the ToB to build up his fitness. He isn't expecting to be at the sharp end of the racing. Plus, the sponsors want him there as he'll be one of the high profile riders in a British event.

Real shame for Lizzie, I have no idea how long it takes to recover from an Appendix removal.

r0bh

A colleague had his out recently and was in hospital for a week and then off work for another two weeks. I think it depends on how much nastiness leaks out of the ruptured appendix before they operate.

daniel_b

Well she has been picked!