Giro 16 - Stage 19 ***Spoilers***

kleinstroker
kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
edited June 2016 in Pro race
Pinerolo → Risoul, 162 km

One of the key mountain stages of this years Giro, and almost the last chance for the likes of Valverde to make an attack on the pink jersey.

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The Colle Dell'Agnello as of yesterday.. looks ace!
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Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    The Italian side of the Agnello is a tough climb... a bit more luck with the weather (read rain) would make this into a Galibier-Deux Alpes scenario, where anything can happen... shame the forecast is good (but watch out for tomorrow!). That's where a brave attack should begin. The Risoul is not as hard and unlikly to make big gaps on its own

    Nibali will have a go at taking the stage and whatever time he can take (or lose), hopefully Valverde will attack too... so far we have seen people losing time, but not much in the way of people gaining time, which is the more exciting bit

    Bring back Pantani, this would be his day!
    left the forum March 2023
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    The Podium Cafe has a good piece on climbing the Agnello from the Italian side:-
    http://www.podiumcafe.com/2016/5/26/117 ... ellagnello
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mechanism
    mechanism Posts: 891
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude and Nibali has got burnt by attacking so they could play it safe. A breakaway with Nieve, Dombrowski, Atapuma etc vs the GC riders would be interesting.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    WFH today, should be able to watch the lot :)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude

    That's surprising for someone with a big freezer full of red bags as he had...
    left the forum March 2023
  • mechanism
    mechanism Posts: 891
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude

    That's surprising for someone with a big freezer full of red bags as he had...

    Waitrose frozen summer fruits?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Mechanism wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude

    That's surprising for someone with a big freezer full of red bags as he had...

    Waitrose frozen summer fruits?

    Not Waitrose no, they were branded Fuentes, must be the Spanish equivalent of Lidl...
    left the forum March 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude and Nibali has got burnt by attacking so they could play it safe. A breakaway with Nieve, Dombrowski, Atapuma etc vs the GC riders would be interesting.
    So far the primary effect of a Nibali attack is Nibali being dropped soon after.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    RichN95 wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude and Nibali has got burnt by attacking so they could play it safe. A breakaway with Nieve, Dombrowski, Atapuma etc vs the GC riders would be interesting.
    So far the primary effect of a Nibali attack is Nibali being dropped soon after.

    On the Gazzetta he seems very positive, not sure what this is based on, but he says he has big plans for the next couple of stages, so let's see...
    left the forum March 2023
  • mechanism
    mechanism Posts: 891
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude and Nibali has got burnt by attacking so they could play it safe. A breakaway with Nieve, Dombrowski, Atapuma etc vs the GC riders would be interesting.
    So far the primary effect of a Nibali attack is Nibali being dropped soon after.

    On the Gazzetta he seems very positive, not sure what this is based on, but he says he has big plans for the next couple of stages, so let's see...

    Presumably he won't be worried about losing his 4th place if it all goes pear-shaped.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Mechanism wrote:

    Presumably he won't be worried about losing his 4th place if it all goes pear-shaped.

    Hopefully... Valverde and Nibali could really do with helping each other, but they need the Dutch to have a bad moment or it's all pointless. I am not quite sure how he managed to become that good that quickly, but so be it...
    left the forum March 2023
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    To be fair, Kruijswijk has always gone well at the Giro and has clearly targetted GC this year. I think the other contenders aren't quite first rate and are making him look good. Chaves is up and coming with a weak team, Valverde is past his best and hasn't fully focussed on the Giro, Nibbles hasn't been consistently on his game for the last year and a half, Zakarin would have been closer but for his TT mishaps and obviously Landa - well, still not quite sure whathappened to him! I suspect the first rate GC men (Froome, Quintana, Aru, Contador) would probably win this race quite comfortably and the likes of Pinot and Porte might also have had a good shout.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2016
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:

    Presumably he won't be worried about losing his 4th place if it all goes pear-shaped.

    Hopefully... Valverde and Nibali could really do with helping each other, but they need the Dutch to have a bad moment or it's all pointless. I am not quite sure how he managed to become that good that quickly, but so be it...

    You're starting to sound an awful lot like someone else who used to post on here.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    RichN95 wrote:
    Mechanism wrote:
    Valverde isn't great at high altitude and Nibali has got burnt by attacking so they could play it safe. A breakaway with Nieve, Dombrowski, Atapuma etc vs the GC riders would be interesting.
    So far the primary effect of a Nibali attack is Nibali being dropped soon after.

    Following by a gutted look. It happened on the first summit stage and on every one since.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    BigMat wrote:
    To be fair, Kruijswijk has always gone well at the Giro and has clearly targetted GC this year. I think the other contenders aren't quite first rate and are making him look good. Chaves is up and coming with a weak team, Valverde is past his best and hasn't fully focussed on the Giro, Nibbles hasn't been consistently on his game for the last year and a half, Zakarin would have been closer but for his TT mishaps and obviously Landa - well, still not quite sure whathappened to him! I suspect the first rate GC men (Froome, Quintana, Aru, Contador) would probably win this race quite comfortably and the likes of Pinot and Porte might also have had a good shout.

    ^This
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    BigMat wrote:
    To be fair, Kruijswijk has always gone well at the Giro and has clearly targetted GC this year. I think the other contenders aren't quite first rate and are making him look good. Chaves is up and coming with a weak team, Valverde is past his best and hasn't fully focussed on the Giro, Nibbles hasn't been consistently on his game for the last year and a half, Zakarin would have been closer but for his TT mishaps and obviously Landa - well, still not quite sure whathappened to him! I suspect the first rate GC men (Froome, Quintana, Aru, Contador) would probably win this race quite comfortably and the likes of Pinot and Porte might also have had a good shout.

    You are probably right, it's just testament of how mediocre the field is this year... same as the Russian guy wininng the mountain time trial...
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    bobmcstuff wrote:

    Did you see the Vuelta last year?

    What do you mean? In relation to Kruiskijk?
    left the forum March 2023
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    To be fair, Kruijswijk has always gone well at the Giro and has clearly targetted GC this year. I think the other contenders aren't quite first rate and are making him look good. Chaves is up and coming with a weak team, Valverde is past his best and hasn't fully focussed on the Giro, Nibbles hasn't been consistently on his game for the last year and a half, Zakarin would have been closer but for his TT mishaps and obviously Landa - well, still not quite sure whathappened to him! I suspect the first rate GC men (Froome, Quintana, Aru, Contador) would probably win this race quite comfortably and the likes of Pinot and Porte might also have had a good shout.

    You are probably right, it's just testament of how mediocre the field is this year... same as the Russian guy wininng the mountain time trial...

    Oh I don't know about that, that Russian guy was probably an entirely different story! ;)
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    The good thing about Nibali is he isn't going to ride for fourth - even if he ends up losing out by it he's going to have a go - much like Contador. We just need the likes of Chaves and Valverde to have the same attitude and we could still have some excitement - problem is you can understand Chaves defending his position and Valverde has always been one to let others take the initiative and pick up what he can playing the percentages.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    and Valverde has always been one to let others take the initiative and pick up what he can playing the percentages.

    Glad to see someone else thinks Valverde is a successful wheelsucker :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    There are only a few people who really think other wise no?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    ddraver wrote:
    There are only a few people who really think other wise no?

    Those that look at the palmares will say that he is a great champion... after all he won bags of classics... those that don't can't forget how he lost the Worlds in 2013 due to a lack of wheels to suck
    left the forum March 2023
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    There are only a few people who really think other wise no?

    Those that look at the palmares will say that he is a great champion... after all he won bags of classics... those that don't can't forget how he lost the Worlds in 2013 due to a lack of wheels to suck
    Don't mention the bags
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:

    Did you see the Vuelta last year?

    What do you mean? In relation to Kruiskijk?

    Pretend I never said anything ;)
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    There are only a few people who really think other wise no?

    Those that look at the palmares will say that he is a great champion... after all he won bags of classics... those that don't can't forget how he lost the Worlds in 2013 due to a lack of wheels to suck

    Much of this GC is made up of wheelsuckers far less successful than Valverde.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    :roll:

    If it's so easy for Valverde to win sucking wheels, why does everyone let him?
    _
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    same reason they let Gerrans win.

    The two of them are near identical riders..
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    ddraver wrote:
    same reason they let Gerrans win.

    The two of them are near identical riders..

    Just the grand tour win and multiple GT podiums to separate them, really...

    Not a Valverde fan, but his palmares speaks for itself - as others have said, if it was so easy to just follow wheels then others would be doing it and getting those results. Both him and Gerrans ride to their strengths and get results, fair play to them (I'll leave the Puerto thing to one side for the purposes of this discussion...)
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    I am not dismissing Valverde's palmares, just don't like the way he rides and don't think he is one of the greats of the sport like his palmares seems to imply
    left the forum March 2023
  • manic_esso
    manic_esso Posts: 92
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    :roll:

    If it's so easy for Valverde to win sucking wheels, why does everyone let him?

    Because thankfully there are some riders who have the balls to try and take the race on otherwise none of us would watch the sh!t that would otherwise prevail

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