Donald Trump

First.Aspect

coopster_the_1st said:

Jezyboy said:

I thought they were mostly marching for a second referendum rather than a straight up reversal. But facts don't matter these days.

The second referendum was not the position they started with.

However, they are the same in that neither are accepting the outcome of the vote...

The EU referendum WAS a second referendum, Coopster.

coopster_the_1st

It doesn't bother me, because it won't work, and makes Remoaners look ridiculous.

Strange how you or any of the others never argued the above position prior to 10 days ago.

However we can agree, and I have said this from the start that it makes both groups look ridiculous. Pity you cannot accept that for one of those groups though, despite them being the same.

TheBigBean

There are a few people that struggle with the fact that something good like democracy can elect something that is fundamentally bad in their view.

pblakeney

First.Aspect said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Jezyboy said:

I thought they were mostly marching for a second referendum rather than a straight up reversal. But facts don't matter these days.

The second referendum was not the position they started with.

However, they are the same in that neither are accepting the outcome of the vote...

The EU referendum WAS a second referendum, Coopster.

The second Brexit referendum was proposed by a Brexiteer who thought they were going to lose. One for the ironic thread?

kingstongraham

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

Shades of grey, but the holding on to false hope I'll accept.

ballysmate

TheBigBean said:

There are a few people that struggle with the fact that something good like democracy can elect something that is fundamentally bad in their view.

Have a like.

kingstongraham

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

It doesn't bother me, because it won't work, and makes Remoaners look ridiculous.

Strange how you or any of the others never argued the above position prior to 10 days ago.

However we can agree, and I have said this from the start that it makes both groups look ridiculous. Pity you cannot accept that for one of those groups though, despite them being the same.

You said at the start that there would be a renegotiation and a second referendum if the vote was to leave. Not that far from me really.

(And please don't change my quotes, seems a bit weak.)

coopster_the_1st

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

kingstongraham

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

Find it.

ballysmate

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

Shades of grey, but the holding on to false hope I'll accept.

Can't remember people saying the result didn't count because an absolute majority didn't vote for it?
And by extension claiming all non cast votes for Remain?

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

Shades of grey, but the holding on to false hope I'll accept.

Gina Millar successfully challenged whether the PM had the right to issue article 50. As a point of law, I don't think anyone can complain about it; however, her motivation was to stop Brexit, so I'm not really sure that she was on morally higher ground than lawyers successfully challenging late postal votes - they similarly just want to prevent Biden being elected.

Then there's all the campaigns like "bollocks to brexit". Or the people arguing the question should never have been asked or should have required a super majority. Finally, there is the argument that everyone on the leave side lied or committed fraud in funding the referendum, so it should be voided. Sound familiar?

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

What a brave little soldier.

"We shall fight them on the cycling forums..."

No denying the similarities though eh?

That in any binary vote, there will be some disappointed with the result? Sure. No problem with them peacefully protesting their disappointment. But then I'm not someone who thinks you can lump people together purely based on how they voted. I must have missed Cameron launching numerous legal challenges to the result. Ditto Cameron loudly proclaiming that the referendum result was fraudulent. Of course there have been random individuals posting stuff to that effect, but they weren't people with any power.

There seems to be a confusion between disliking to the thing voted for and disliking the people who voted for it.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

What a brave little soldier.

"We shall fight them on the cycling forums..."

No denying the similarities though eh?

That in any binary vote, there will be some disappointed with the result? Sure. No problem with them peacefully protesting their disappointment. But then I'm not someone who thinks you can lump people together purely based on how they voted. I must have missed Cameron launching numerous legal challenges to the result. Ditto Cameron loudly proclaiming that the referendum result was fraudulent. Of course there have been random individuals posting stuff to that effect, but they weren't people with any power.

Coopster posted a pic of Trump supporters.
He likened the reaction of Trump supporters and Remainders, not Trump and Cameron.

kingstongraham

ballysmate said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

Shades of grey, but the holding on to false hope I'll accept.

Can't remember people saying the result didn't count because an absolute majority didn't vote for it?
And by extension claiming all non cast votes for Remain?

No. I remember it being said in the context of there being a mandate for whatever.

I don't remember anyone saying that leave didn't get more votes. Do you?

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

Shades of grey, but the holding on to false hope I'll accept.

Can't remember people saying the result didn't count because an absolute majority didn't vote for it?
And by extension claiming all non cast votes for Remain?

Yes, that was ridiculous then and is still ridiculous now. I think there's a big difference between some anonymous bloke on the Internet posting that, and (I guess the equivalent would be) Cameron tweeting that Leave had 'stolen' the referendum.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

What a brave little soldier.

"We shall fight them on the cycling forums..."

No denying the similarities though eh?

That in any binary vote, there will be some disappointed with the result? Sure. No problem with them peacefully protesting their disappointment. But then I'm not someone who thinks you can lump people together purely based on how they voted. I must have missed Cameron launching numerous legal challenges to the result. Ditto Cameron loudly proclaiming that the referendum result was fraudulent. Of course there have been random individuals posting stuff to that effect, but they weren't people with any power.

Coopster posted a pic of Trump supporters.
He likened the reaction of Trump supporters and Remainders, not Trump and Cameron.

What's wrong with Trump supporters? It's the actions of Trump that people have been objecting to.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

What a brave little soldier.

"We shall fight them on the cycling forums..."

No denying the similarities though eh?

That in any binary vote, there will be some disappointed with the result? Sure. No problem with them peacefully protesting their disappointment. But then I'm not someone who thinks you can lump people together purely based on how they voted. I must have missed Cameron launching numerous legal challenges to the result. Ditto Cameron loudly proclaiming that the referendum result was fraudulent. Of course there have been random individuals posting stuff to that effect, but they weren't people with any power.

Coopster posted a pic of Trump supporters.
He likened the reaction of Trump supporters and Remainders, not Trump and Cameron.

What's wrong with Trump supporters? It's the actions of Trump that people have been objecting to.

People in a democracy can support whichever candidate they like for whatever reason they like. People on here have denigrated Trump supporters and it is his supporters that Coopster compared to Remainders and they don't like it.

Pour whatever bilge you like over Trump, he deserves it

ballysmate

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

Shades of grey, but the holding on to false hope I'll accept.

Can't remember people saying the result didn't count because an absolute majority didn't vote for it?
And by extension claiming all non cast votes for Remain?

No. I remember it being said in the context of there being a mandate for whatever.

I don't remember anyone saying that leave didn't get more votes. Do you?

What is the point of accepting Leave got more votes but then give a greater weight to an uncast vote, which many did. As some of whom who post on here did.

swjohnsey

The republicans need to learn to throw a peaceful protest. The demokraps woulda burnt downtown and looted Walmart.

DeVlaeminck

Hopefully some of the pro Trump Vs Antifa/BLM violence that's been taking place doesn't become a feature of politics in the UK. Some quite disturbing scenes from Washington of Trump supporters being hunted down and counter attacks by groups like the Proudboys.

bobmcstuff

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

You won, get over it.

Who knew Remoaners and Trump voters were so alike?

The UK should never forget the risk and damage to democracy that remoaners have caused in the last 4.5 years. If you went on or supported one of those remoaner marches you are no better than the Trump supporters in the attached picture.

I will continue to hold the feet to the fire of those who refused to accept the democratic result. That I have Trump to bash them over the head with is a glorious bonus

What a load of rubbish.

bobmcstuff

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

If you can find any evidence on here of Remainers making allegations of ballot stuffing and fraud, well, go ahead. I thought Brexit was a stupid idea in 2016, I still think so now, but I've never tried to suggest there was widespread election fraud... I don't remember that coming up on here but then again I haven't been in the Brexit thread for some time.

There's a difference between thinking we voted for something completely stupid and questioning the integrity of the vote itself. But you know that.

TheBigBean

bobmcstuff said:

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

If you can find any evidence on here of Remainers making allegations of ballot stuffing and fraud, well, go ahead. I thought Brexit was a stupid idea in 2016, I still think so now, but I've never tried to suggest there was widespread election fraud... I don't remember that coming up on here but then again I haven't been in the Brexit thread for some time.

There's a difference between thinking we voted for something completely stupid and questioning the integrity of the vote itself. But you know that.

Here's wikipedia. I'm sure they made an apperance on the Brexit thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_unlawful_campaigning_in_the_2016_EU_referendum

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

What a brave little soldier.

"We shall fight them on the cycling forums..."

No denying the similarities though eh?

That in any binary vote, there will be some disappointed with the result? Sure. No problem with them peacefully protesting their disappointment. But then I'm not someone who thinks you can lump people together purely based on how they voted. I must have missed Cameron launching numerous legal challenges to the result. Ditto Cameron loudly proclaiming that the referendum result was fraudulent. Of course there have been random individuals posting stuff to that effect, but they weren't people with any power.

Coopster posted a pic of Trump supporters.
He likened the reaction of Trump supporters and Remainders, not Trump and Cameron.

What's wrong with Trump supporters? It's the actions of Trump that people have been objecting to.

People in a democracy can support whichever candidate they like for whatever reason they like. People on here have denigrated Trump supporters and it is his supporters that Coopster compared to Remainders and they don't like it.

Oh, please. It's just slagging someone off because they support the 'wrong' party/person/side. There's no moral high ground here for anyone. We all have lots in common with people we don't like.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

bobmcstuff said:

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

If you can find any evidence on here of Remainers making allegations of ballot stuffing and fraud, well, go ahead. I thought Brexit was a stupid idea in 2016, I still think so now, but I've never tried to suggest there was widespread election fraud... I don't remember that coming up on here but then again I haven't been in the Brexit thread for some time.

There's a difference between thinking we voted for something completely stupid and questioning the integrity of the vote itself. But you know that.

Here's wikipedia. I'm sure they made an apperance on the Brexit thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_unlawful_campaigning_in_the_2016_EU_referendum

Can't see anyone questioning the integrity of the voting numbers even there.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

bobmcstuff said:

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

If you can find any evidence on here of Remainers making allegations of ballot stuffing and fraud, well, go ahead. I thought Brexit was a stupid idea in 2016, I still think so now, but I've never tried to suggest there was widespread election fraud... I don't remember that coming up on here but then again I haven't been in the Brexit thread for some time.

There's a difference between thinking we voted for something completely stupid and questioning the integrity of the vote itself. But you know that.

Here's wikipedia. I'm sure they made an apperance on the Brexit thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_unlawful_campaigning_in_the_2016_EU_referendum

Can't see anyone questioning the integrity of the voting numbers even there.

The allegations of fraud are not identical, you are correct. The question posed was whether there were any allegations of fraud, and there were.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

bobmcstuff said:

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

If you can find any evidence on here of Remainers making allegations of ballot stuffing and fraud, well, go ahead. I thought Brexit was a stupid idea in 2016, I still think so now, but I've never tried to suggest there was widespread election fraud... I don't remember that coming up on here but then again I haven't been in the Brexit thread for some time.

There's a difference between thinking we voted for something completely stupid and questioning the integrity of the vote itself. But you know that.

Here's wikipedia. I'm sure they made an apperance on the Brexit thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_unlawful_campaigning_in_the_2016_EU_referendum

Can't see anyone questioning the integrity of the voting numbers even there.

The allegations of fraud are not identical, you are correct. The question posed was whether there were any allegations of fraud, and there were.

The consternation with Brexit was that people were lied to to win the vote. The consternation with the US election is that no amount of lying was enough to win.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

bobmcstuff said:

coopster_the_1st said:

kingstongraham said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:

Democracy doesn't stop fixed for ever more after one vote at one moment in time.

Trump supporters are every bit as entitled to protest as Remainers were.

They're every bit as entitled to oppose the new President's agenda as parliament was to oppose the May's Brexit deal.




I'm not sure what's complicated.

100%
But it seems some posters on here don't like the idea that they are like Trump supporters.

I don't think many disputed the result, maybe I'm mistaken.

More denial...

If you can find any evidence on here of Remainers making allegations of ballot stuffing and fraud, well, go ahead. I thought Brexit was a stupid idea in 2016, I still think so now, but I've never tried to suggest there was widespread election fraud... I don't remember that coming up on here but then again I haven't been in the Brexit thread for some time.

There's a difference between thinking we voted for something completely stupid and questioning the integrity of the vote itself. But you know that.

Here's wikipedia. I'm sure they made an apperance on the Brexit thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_unlawful_campaigning_in_the_2016_EU_referendum

Can't see anyone questioning the integrity of the voting numbers even there.

The allegations of fraud are not identical, you are correct. The question posed was whether there were any allegations of fraud, and there were.

Huge difference.

It's the difference between literally everyone accepting the results of the 2016 US presidential election should stand, and the (Republican appointed) Mueller report finding illegality - but still nobody said the result shouldn't stand.

swjohnsey

Don’t know that it wold be called fraud but the courts have already set aside actions by the governor of California, a judge in Pennsylvania and election officials in Texas as extra legal. Election law can only be changed by legislatures.

pblakeney

This has aged well. Where should he go?

"“Running against the worst candidate in the history of presidential politics puts pressure on me,” Trump told supporters at an airport campaign rally in Macon, Georgia. “Could you imagine if I lose? My whole life – what am I going to do? I’m going to say I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics.”

Trump said he might not feel so good after an election loss to Biden. “Maybe I have to leave the country, I don’t know,” he joked."