Donald Trump

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    Systemic racism (US) explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/2745368975685853

    Facebook unfortunately but thought this was quite interesting.

    Fairly accurate picture of America right there. The issue for the UK BLM protests is how systemically racist do they think Britain is. We have a centrally funded school system where we even give extra money to schools with kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have a national health service that will do a good job of looking after you if something significant goes wrong. So it seems to me that it is only peoples bias that is left to solve. This is not a state issue.
    U.K. policing is properly racist.
    I know at least 10 people who work for the police and not one of them has acted or spoken in a manner that make me think they are racists. Now i have spent quite a bit of time in there company and often on the sauce where peoples inhibitions are lower. I think you might be over egging the pudding there somewhat. I remain to be convinced by evidence that the police are more racist than the general population. I await your evidence with interest.
    Does the Macphearson report mean anything to you?

    Or the fact the leading black met officer has said the police is still institutionally racist?

    Or that black people are 4x more likely to be subject to a stop and search?

    And that despite making up only 3% of the population they are involved in 12% of instances of police violence?

    Or that black people are twice as likely to die in police custody?

    Or that police use tasers on block people 4x as often than others?

    Come on. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
    What have you seen with your own eyes?

    The problem is that you lump in valid points with statistics that only give half the story. Before we can make any judgement on it we'd need to see the crime statistics for crimes committed by black people.
    Sorry what are you suggesting? That there is a racial reason for propensity to commit crime? Jfc.
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    The McPherson report was what - 20 plus years ago ? Things have changed in 20 years.

    In recent years blacks are less likely to die in custody than whites - measured as a percentage of those actually in custody not of the population.

    Even as a percentage of the population BAME people aren't really over represented - blacks are - but asians are under represented - so clearly the police favour asians over white people - or doesn't it work that way ??
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    Systemic racism (US) explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/2745368975685853

    Facebook unfortunately but thought this was quite interesting.

    Fairly accurate picture of America right there. The issue for the UK BLM protests is how systemically racist do they think Britain is. We have a centrally funded school system where we even give extra money to schools with kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have a national health service that will do a good job of looking after you if something significant goes wrong. So it seems to me that it is only peoples bias that is left to solve. This is not a state issue.
    U.K. policing is properly racist.
    I know at least 10 people who work for the police and not one of them has acted or spoken in a manner that make me think they are racists. Now i have spent quite a bit of time in there company and often on the sauce where peoples inhibitions are lower. I think you might be over egging the pudding there somewhat. I remain to be convinced by evidence that the police are more racist than the general population. I await your evidence with interest.
    Does the Macphearson report mean anything to you?

    Or the fact the leading black met officer has said the police is still institutionally racist?

    Or that black people are 4x more likely to be subject to a stop and search?

    And that despite making up only 3% of the population they are involved in 12% of instances of police violence?

    Or that black people are twice as likely to die in police custody?

    Or that police use tasers on block people 4x as often than others?

    Come on. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
    MacPherson was over 20 years ago.

    Yes, stop and search figures don't look good but how do they compare when looking at socioeconomic variations? Is it reasonable to say that the vast majority of crime is committed by those from more deprived backgrounds? If so is it fair to say (as discussed recently) that black people are disproportionately likely to be from that background?

    Of course there'll be racists amongst a police force of around 125,000 but I'm still to be convinced that the 43 are 'institutionally racist', there may be a handful.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rick_chasey said:

    nickice said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    Systemic racism (US) explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/2745368975685853

    Facebook unfortunately but thought this was quite interesting.

    Fairly accurate picture of America right there. The issue for the UK BLM protests is how systemically racist do they think Britain is. We have a centrally funded school system where we even give extra money to schools with kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have a national health service that will do a good job of looking after you if something significant goes wrong. So it seems to me that it is only peoples bias that is left to solve. This is not a state issue.
    U.K. policing is properly racist.
    I know at least 10 people who work for the police and not one of them has acted or spoken in a manner that make me think they are racists. Now i have spent quite a bit of time in there company and often on the sauce where peoples inhibitions are lower. I think you might be over egging the pudding there somewhat. I remain to be convinced by evidence that the police are more racist than the general population. I await your evidence with interest.
    Does the Macphearson report mean anything to you?

    Or the fact the leading black met officer has said the police is still institutionally racist?

    Or that black people are 4x more likely to be subject to a stop and search?

    And that despite making up only 3% of the population they are involved in 12% of instances of police violence?

    Or that black people are twice as likely to die in police custody?

    Or that police use tasers on block people 4x as often than others?

    Come on. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
    What have you seen with your own eyes?

    The problem is that you lump in valid points with statistics that only give half the story. Before we can make any judgement on it we'd need to see the crime statistics for crimes committed by black people.
    Sorry what are you suggesting? That there is a racial reason for propensity to commit crime? Jfc.
    And you claim I have poor reading skills? Let me explain it to you; If black people commit a disproportionate number of violent crimes (as they do in the USA for example probably for socioeconomic reasons) they're going to have more interaction with the police and therefore more chance of suffering police brutality. That's why you need more stats than the ones you have provided to draw any firm conclusions.

    Do you think they use stop and search to be racist or do you think that it's because of a knife crime problem in, for example, London where black people are disproportionately the offenders (and the victims might I add).
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    DeVlaeminck said:

    The McPherson report was what - 20 plus years ago ? Things have changed in 20 years.

    In recent years blacks are less likely to die in custody than whites - measured as a percentage of those actually in custody not of the population.

    Even as a percentage of the population BAME people aren't really over represented - blacks are - but asians are under represented - so clearly the police favour asians over white people - or doesn't it work that way ??

    I pointed this out to him above. He has a tendency to ignore anything that might contradict his arguments.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    Systemic racism (US) explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/2745368975685853

    Facebook unfortunately but thought this was quite interesting.

    Fairly accurate picture of America right there. The issue for the UK BLM protests is how systemically racist do they think Britain is. We have a centrally funded school system where we even give extra money to schools with kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have a national health service that will do a good job of looking after you if something significant goes wrong. So it seems to me that it is only peoples bias that is left to solve. This is not a state issue.
    U.K. policing is properly racist.
    I know at least 10 people who work for the police and not one of them has acted or spoken in a manner that make me think they are racists. Now i have spent quite a bit of time in there company and often on the sauce where peoples inhibitions are lower. I think you might be over egging the pudding there somewhat. I remain to be convinced by evidence that the police are more racist than the general population. I await your evidence with interest.
    Does the Macphearson report mean anything to you?

    Or the fact the leading black met officer has said the police is still institutionally racist?

    Or that black people are 4x more likely to be subject to a stop and search?

    And that despite making up only 3% of the population they are involved in 12% of instances of police violence?

    Or that black people are twice as likely to die in police custody?

    Or that police use tasers on block people 4x as often than others?

    Come on. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
    MacPherson was over 20 years ago.

    Yes, stop and search figures don't look good but how do they compare when looking at socioeconomic variations? Is it reasonable to say that the vast majority of crime is committed by those from more deprived backgrounds? If so is it fair to say (as discussed recently) that black people are disproportionately likely to be from that background?

    Of course there'll be racists amongst a police force of around 125,000 but I'm still to be convinced that the 43 are 'institutionally racist', there may be a handful.
    Despite what the leading black met officer said today?

    And despite all the other stats you brush off as socioeconomic factors, as if it’s not racism that means bame are disproportionately represented in those strata because of racism?

    If I may be Stevo or Nick for a moment, prove to me the correlation is socioeconomic and not racial.
    _
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rick_chasey said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    john80 said:

    morstar said:

    Systemic racism (US) explained.

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/2745368975685853

    Facebook unfortunately but thought this was quite interesting.

    Fairly accurate picture of America right there. The issue for the UK BLM protests is how systemically racist do they think Britain is. We have a centrally funded school system where we even give extra money to schools with kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have a national health service that will do a good job of looking after you if something significant goes wrong. So it seems to me that it is only peoples bias that is left to solve. This is not a state issue.
    U.K. policing is properly racist.
    I know at least 10 people who work for the police and not one of them has acted or spoken in a manner that make me think they are racists. Now i have spent quite a bit of time in there company and often on the sauce where peoples inhibitions are lower. I think you might be over egging the pudding there somewhat. I remain to be convinced by evidence that the police are more racist than the general population. I await your evidence with interest.
    Does the Macphearson report mean anything to you?

    Or the fact the leading black met officer has said the police is still institutionally racist?

    Or that black people are 4x more likely to be subject to a stop and search?

    And that despite making up only 3% of the population they are involved in 12% of instances of police violence?

    Or that black people are twice as likely to die in police custody?

    Or that police use tasers on block people 4x as often than others?

    Come on. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
    MacPherson was over 20 years ago.

    Yes, stop and search figures don't look good but how do they compare when looking at socioeconomic variations? Is it reasonable to say that the vast majority of crime is committed by those from more deprived backgrounds? If so is it fair to say (as discussed recently) that black people are disproportionately likely to be from that background?

    Of course there'll be racists amongst a police force of around 125,000 but I'm still to be convinced that the 43 are 'institutionally racist', there may be a handful.
    Despite what the leading black met officer said today?

    And despite all the other stats you brush off as socioeconomic factors, as if it’s not racism that means bame are disproportionately represented in those strata because of racism?

    If I may be Stevo or Nick for a moment, prove to me the correlation is socioeconomic and not racial.
    Because you see it all over the World- poorer areas of cities tend to be where there is more violent crime and gang problems. The police in Scotland are hated in some of the more deprived areas (which are generally white) for exactly the same reasons they are accused of being racist in England. In Scotland, it's seen as a class issue as how could it be racial?

    New low-skilled/unskilled immigrants to a country tend to move to exactly the kind of areas above. Then they move up and the next set of immigrants moves in. Anecdotal example: Belgians of North African descent are gradually moving out of Molenbeck and being replaced with Romany gypsies from Eastern Europe.

    None of this is to say that racism doesn't exist but it' s much more complicated than you claim.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest#by-ethnicity

    Ethnicity and life chances is an important topic. If racism is the dominant factor you'd have to question why some minority ethnicities apparently do very well and some not so well. Whether you look at household income or educational attainment white British do not top the charts.

    So is it all about economic class - and if not even then are there other factors - socio cultural etc - that have an impact.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Interesting development in the story of the police in Buffalo who resigned after their colleague pushed that guy to the ground. All not as first reported.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    rjsterry said:

    Interesting development in the story of the police in Buffalo who resigned after their colleague pushed that guy to the ground. All not as first reported.

    This makes marginally more sense I guess.

    _
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    The point was more about the police are there to get results. This means they go after groups they think they might get a result from in some areas this will be black kids and in some areas it will be white kids. Christ in burmingham it might even be muslim youths they target. In all cases the groups sees themselves as a being victims of police harassment. It is one of the reasons stop and search was rolled back somewhat.

    Professor Green has a view that seems quite well thought out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46180600

    I have seen a couple of videos from african americans asking why is it that black people seem to like putting people with dubious history as heroic figures. I prefer looking up to Rosa Parks personally.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    The point was more about the police are there to get results. This means they go after groups they think they might get a result from in some areas this will be black kids and in some areas it will be white kids. Christ in burmingham it might even be muslim youths they target. In all cases the groups sees themselves as a being victims of police harassment. It is one of the reasons stop and search was rolled back somewhat.

    Professor Green has a view that seems quite well thought out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46180600

    I have seen a couple of videos from african americans asking why is it that black people seem to like putting people with dubious history as heroic figures. I prefer looking up to Rosa Parks personally.
    Agreed. The police are there to enforce the law. I have to say, though, it would do my head in to be continually stopped and searched by police. It's already annoyed me enough in the lockdown to have to justify being out of the house.

    Having said that, when my sons are teenagers, if it were a choice of their being stopped and searched or being at greater risk of knife crime, I'd choose the former.

  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    The point was more about the police are there to get results. This means they go after groups they think they might get a result from in some areas this will be black kids and in some areas it will be white kids. Christ in burmingham it might even be muslim youths they target. In all cases the groups sees themselves as a being victims of police harassment. It is one of the reasons stop and search was rolled back somewhat.

    Professor Green has a view that seems quite well thought out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46180600

    I have seen a couple of videos from african americans asking why is it that black people seem to like putting people with dubious history as heroic figures. I prefer looking up to Rosa Parks personally.
    Ok so in your article the professor says "There had been a lot of reference to a statistic that it's largely black youths stabbing each other - what was left out was that this is only true of certain areas, as anyone with a brain can work out, in more densely white populated areas, the face of knife crime is white."

    The article goes on to say "According to Home Office figures, there were 298,949 stop and searches carried out in England and Wales in the 2016-17 financial year. There were four for every 1,000 white people - compared with 29 for every 1,000 black people."

    So he's saying actually the crime is being committed by both groups but the stats say stop and search targeted black people 7 times as much.

    And sorry your argument is... what?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    The point was more about the police are there to get results. This means they go after groups they think they might get a result from in some areas this will be black kids and in some areas it will be white kids. Christ in burmingham it might even be muslim youths they target. In all cases the groups sees themselves as a being victims of police harassment. It is one of the reasons stop and search was rolled back somewhat.

    Professor Green has a view that seems quite well thought out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46180600

    I have seen a couple of videos from african americans asking why is it that black people seem to like putting people with dubious history as heroic figures. I prefer looking up to Rosa Parks personally.
    Ok so in your article the professor says "There had been a lot of reference to a statistic that it's largely black youths stabbing each other - what was left out was that this is only true of certain areas, as anyone with a brain can work out, in more densely white populated areas, the face of knife crime is white."

    The article goes on to say "According to Home Office figures, there were 298,949 stop and searches carried out in England and Wales in the 2016-17 financial year. There were four for every 1,000 white people - compared with 29 for every 1,000 black people."

    So he's saying actually the crime is being committed by both groups but the stats say stop and search targeted black people 7 times as much.

    And sorry your argument is... what?

    Professor Green didn't say there were exactly the same number of white areas as black areas where crime takes place.

    Stop and Search is there to stop crime (knife and drug crime especially). Whether it's a good idea or if it serves to alienate the community is another thing.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    Here's an interesting stop and search example from a black cyclist

    https://youtu.be/-3jgbmRYZ9M

    Short vid so whole thing is worth a watch for his take on current situation but the story I'm referring to is at 5 mins.

    Any of you ever been pulled over while cycling because the police thought they smelled drugs? Any of you ever been pulled over for suspicion of anything at all? i.e. not being blatantly caught speeding or something like that.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    nickice said:

    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    The point was more about the police are there to get results. This means they go after groups they think they might get a result from in some areas this will be black kids and in some areas it will be white kids. Christ in burmingham it might even be muslim youths they target. In all cases the groups sees themselves as a being victims of police harassment. It is one of the reasons stop and search was rolled back somewhat.

    Professor Green has a view that seems quite well thought out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46180600

    I have seen a couple of videos from african americans asking why is it that black people seem to like putting people with dubious history as heroic figures. I prefer looking up to Rosa Parks personally.
    Agreed. The police are there to enforce the law. I have to say, though, it would do my head in to be continually stopped and searched by police. It's already annoyed me enough in the lockdown to have to justify being out of the house.

    Having said that, when my sons are teenagers, if it were a choice of their being stopped and searched or being at greater risk of knife crime, I'd choose the former.

    And when you/they live in an area where there is no great risk of knife crime, but they still get stopped because it's seen as the 'wrong' area for a Scots ex pat (hope I've got that right) family. I would imagine you'd think it was unjustified.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    pangolin said:

    Here's an interesting stop and search example from a black cyclist

    https://youtu.be/-3jgbmRYZ9M

    Short vid so whole thing is worth a watch for his take on current situation but the story I'm referring to is at 5 mins.

    Any of you ever been pulled over while cycling because the police thought they smelled drugs? Any of you ever been pulled over for suspicion of anything at all? i.e. not being blatantly caught speeding or something like that.

    Yes. I got pulled over 3 times in a week when driving home from my girlfriend's house late at night in my early 20s for 'spot checks'. I did nothing illegal, my driving wasn't an issue and I didn't get booked or warned about anything. I was pissed off at the time but with hindsight I suspect that young males driving crappy cars late at night not long after pubs closed were considered likely to be up to no good so pulling them over made tactical sense. I had other 'random' stops but nothing quite to that extent.

  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    edited June 2020
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    Rick would probably like the police to stop and search everyone evenly. Problem is that if you are looking for black kids with weapons as that is what your local intelligence and historical data tells you is causing an issue. You should instead spend your time in the car park of the local bowling club or outside a university stopping students with pretty much zero chance of finding a knife just to keep those statistics neat. I have heard a lot of those middle class mums in Waitrose are packing heat.

    Why aren't more of the black kids middle class? Why are they the ones causing an issue so you think?
    The point was more about the police are there to get results. This means they go after groups they think they might get a result from in some areas this will be black kids and in some areas it will be white kids. Christ in burmingham it might even be muslim youths they target. In all cases the groups sees themselves as a being victims of police harassment. It is one of the reasons stop and search was rolled back somewhat.

    Professor Green has a view that seems quite well thought out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46180600

    I have seen a couple of videos from african americans asking why is it that black people seem to like putting people with dubious history as heroic figures. I prefer looking up to Rosa Parks personally.
    Agreed. The police are there to enforce the law. I have to say, though, it would do my head in to be continually stopped and searched by police. It's already annoyed me enough in the lockdown to have to justify being out of the house.

    Having said that, when my sons are teenagers, if it were a choice of their being stopped and searched or being at greater risk of knife crime, I'd choose the former.

    And when you/they live in an area where there is no great risk of knife crime, but they still get stopped because it's seen as the 'wrong' area for a Scots ex pat (hope I've got that right) family. I would imagine you'd think it was unjustified.
    Yes I would. I haven't argued otherwise. However, if they got stopped and searched in an area known for knife crime and drug dealing, that would be different. That's is stop and search actually works which I'm not entirely convinced of.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    pangolin said:

    Here's an interesting stop and search example from a black cyclist

    https://youtu.be/-3jgbmRYZ9M

    Short vid so whole thing is worth a watch for his take on current situation but the story I'm referring to is at 5 mins.

    Any of you ever been pulled over while cycling because the police thought they smelled drugs? Any of you ever been pulled over for suspicion of anything at all? i.e. not being blatantly caught speeding or something like that.

    Been stopped and searched 3 times. Once in a car with others apparently the car resembled one involved in an incident - twice just walking - once I was working at a uni and I'd taken a stack of books home to read and I think they thought my sportsbag looked suspiciously full . When I was a teenager riding scooters I'd get pulled all the time - I had 3 producers in my wallet at one time - so that's 3 stops on a week .

    No doubt some black youth get a lot worse and whilst I had no reason to suspect it was because of ethnicity obviously they do.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Got to say, I’m genuinely surprised by how many people on here are going in to bat for “U.K. policing doesn’t have a racial problem” when senior police officers themselves say they do.

    “Nah both they and all the protestors are just making it up”

    Absolutely bizarre.
    _
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    Ok so a few examples of being stopped. I'll ask again.

    Any of you ever been pulled over while cycling because the police thought they smelled drugs?

    Does his example seem like reasonable behaviour by the police? Full kit, and cycling with others.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rick_chasey said:

    Got to say, I’m genuinely surprised by how many people on here are going in to bat for “U.K. policing doesn’t have a racial problem” when senior police officers themselves say they do.

    “Nah both they and all the protestors are just making it up”

    Absolutely bizarre.

    Are we talking about the former Chief Constable of Kent or the current highest ranking black police officer? In the first instance I believe he questioned why no other black officers had made it to his level to which the simple answer is surely numbers and time?

    Whoever it was though if they really feel that then why I have they stayed in the force so long that they've risen so high? Now they're in a high position you would think resigning would make a very public point and yet they choose to stay.

    I notice you've downgraded to there being a racial problem within the UK police from the UK police are massively racist so getting closer to something I'd agree with.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Got to say, I’m genuinely surprised by how many people on here are going in to bat for “U.K. policing doesn’t have a racial problem” when senior police officers themselves say they do.

    “Nah both they and all the protestors are just making it up”

    Absolutely bizarre.

    Are we talking about the former Chief Constable of Kent or the current highest ranking black police officer? In the first instance I believe he questioned why no other black officers had made it to his level to which the simple answer is surely numbers and time?

    Whoever it was though if they really feel that then why I have they stayed in the force so long that they've risen so high? Now they're in a high position you would think resigning would make a very public point and yet they choose to stay.

    I notice you've downgraded to there being a racial problem within the UK police from the UK police are massively racist so getting closer to something I'd agree with.
    I've not "downgraded". It is a massive problem in the UK. It just doesn't affect you all that much.
    _
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    pangolin said:

    Ok so a few examples of being stopped. I'll ask again.

    Any of you ever been pulled over while cycling because the police thought they smelled drugs?

    Does his example seem like reasonable behaviour by the police? Full kit, and cycling with others.

    No it doesn't and yes I'd bet there was some racial stereotyping there from what they guy said. I can't defend the indefensible.

    As people have noted above, a common factor seems to be that young men are stopped. I haven't ever been stopped and searched but most of my friends were several times when younger (usually because they were in an area where there were specific problems with drugs etc.)

    I was also reminded from this just how stupid our drug laws are. Legalisation of most drugs (though maybe not heroin etc.) would be something I'd support and would actually do quite a lot (in America at least) to reduce the prison population.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    rick_chasey said:

    Got to say, I’m genuinely surprised by how many people on here are going in to bat for “U.K. policing doesn’t have a racial problem” when senior police officers themselves say they do.

    “Nah both they and all the protestors are just making it up”

    Absolutely bizarre.

    Cressida Dick said the other year the Met was no longer institutionally racist - given one senior police officer said so it's bizarre you question it - are she and the people not protesting just making it up?

    Not the strongest argument is it.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    nickice said:

    pangolin said:

    Ok so a few examples of being stopped. I'll ask again.

    Any of you ever been pulled over while cycling because the police thought they smelled drugs?

    Does his example seem like reasonable behaviour by the police? Full kit, and cycling with others.

    No it doesn't and yes I'd bet there was some racial stereotyping there from what they guy said. I can't defend the indefensible.

    As people have noted above, a common factor seems to be that young men are stopped. I haven't ever been stopped and searched but most of my friends were several times when younger (usually because they were in an area where there were specific problems with drugs etc.)

    I was also reminded from this just how stupid our drug laws are. Legalisation of most drugs (though maybe not heroin etc.) would be something I'd support and would actually do quite a lot (in America at least) to reduce the prison population.
    Legalisation of drugs should be up for discussion.
    I am uncomfortable that the implied approval of them may encourage some to use substances they otherwise wouldn’t.
    However, I think legitimisation of the supply chain will remove a huge amount of criminal behaviour.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    DeVlaeminck said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Got to say, I’m genuinely surprised by how many people on here are going in to bat for “U.K. policing doesn’t have a racial problem” when senior police officers themselves say they do.

    “Nah both they and all the protestors are just making it up”

    Absolutely bizarre.

    Cressida censored said the other year the Met was no longer institutionally racist - given one senior police officer said so it's bizarre you question it - are she and the people not protesting just making it up?

    Not the strongest argument is it.
    I mean, I took that statement to show how bad the problem is, but I guess YMMV.
    _

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