Donald Trump
Comments
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NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.0 -
More should be made of the fact that for all of the warm words a black athlete had his career ended for having the temerity to speak out.morstar said:NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.
I think history will treat him far kinder than the owners.0 -
I cant think of anything.briantrumpet said:Anyone fancy identifying a single redeeming feature of Trump? Or is he just, as he appears, a horrible man with a decomposing brain, being used by clever but horrible men to push their horrible agenda?
As you can tell, I'm sitting on the fence on this one...0 -
Agreed, Kap needs a contract ASAP to give any sort of validation to the sports new position.surrey_commuter said:
More should be made of the fact that for all of the warm words a black athlete had his career ended for having the temerity to speak out.morstar said:NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.
I think history will treat him far kinder than the owners.
He wasn’t a top 5 talent but he was better than many starters in the league in a position where there is not enough talent to go round. Last I heard he remained in good shape and still training.0 -
I find I get so angry with the outpourings of that total ar5ewipe that now I just cannot listen to That voice or indeed read the transcripts. 2020, bigly bestest year Ever.0
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Even if he was a great leader, he is simply repulsive to watch. The fact he is a repugnant individual simply reinforces the repulsion.
His manner is that of a wailing 2 year old.
Wah, wah, wah.
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The older I get, the better I was.0 -
pinno said:
By the same token, some police have been kneeling.rick_chasey said:It's easy to pin this all on trump but it's not really to do with him. The police might be a bit more emboldened by him and the racists in it might feel they have more room to be racist, but this is as old as America.
If you look at what the consequences are for US police breaking the rules and what even the rules are for dealing with people, you wouldn't believe it.
I mean, if you wanted to go around killing people, and i mean this quite seriously, why wouldn't you get into the US police force?
Not enough unfortunately.0 -
Not entirely sure that nfl fans are mainly white is accurate.morstar said:NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.
I always had it down as the one sport which is liked in all parts of America.0 -
Wow. Poor guy starts bleeding from his ear immediately, not a good sign. Staggering that they are united in defending this.rick_chasey said:pinno said:
By the same token, some police have been kneeling.rick_chasey said:It's easy to pin this all on trump but it's not really to do with him. The police might be a bit more emboldened by him and the racists in it might feel they have more room to be racist, but this is as old as America.
If you look at what the consequences are for US police breaking the rules and what even the rules are for dealing with people, you wouldn't believe it.
I mean, if you wanted to go around killing people, and i mean this quite seriously, why wouldn't you get into the US police force?
Not enough unfortunately.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Genuinely, if you look at what the police argument is against accountability it’s basically “no one would be a policeman if we were held accountable for all our actions”pangolin said:
Wow. Poor guy starts bleeding from his ear immediately, not a good sign. Staggering that they are united in defending this.rick_chasey said:pinno said:
By the same token, some police have been kneeling.rick_chasey said:It's easy to pin this all on trump but it's not really to do with him. The police might be a bit more emboldened by him and the racists in it might feel they have more room to be racist, but this is as old as America.
If you look at what the consequences are for US police breaking the rules and what even the rules are for dealing with people, you wouldn't believe it.
I mean, if you wanted to go around killing people, and i mean this quite seriously, why wouldn't you get into the US police force?
Not enough unfortunately.0 -
Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.0
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I hadn't appreciated this fact until the Kap situation developed. It was reported quite widely at the time to provide context. It does have a mixed fanbase but is more white conservative than others.rick_chasey said:
Not entirely sure that nfl fans are mainly white is accurate.morstar said:NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.
I always had it down as the one sport which is liked in all parts of America.0 -
You can argue anything in isolation and indeed the jury will be exposed to these arguments.nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
George Floyd could have been a repugnant or likeable character and that may influence how specific actions are viewed when this case goes to court.
The issue that is being protested is that there is a pattern of observed behaviour that disproportionately too many black people die like this that cannot be explained away.
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Mmmmm you not been to any NHL matches recently then?morstar said:
I hadn't appreciated this fact until the Kap situation developed. It was reported quite widely at the time to provide context. It does have a mixed fanbase but is more white conservative than others.rick_chasey said:
Not entirely sure that nfl fans are mainly white is accurate.morstar said:NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.
I always had it down as the one sport which is liked in all parts of America.
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Firstly, the only way this police officer is going to get off is if they the jury decides he isn't guilty of second-degree homicide which is why it's very important to have a watertight case or prosecute him for third-degree homicide. It happened to my brother's friend's brother. He pleaded guilty (in Scotland) to culpable homicide but the prosecution refused and tried him for murder. He was then found not guilty and walked free. Imagine if that happens here...morstar said:
You can argue anything in isolation and indeed the jury will be exposed to these arguments.nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
George Floyd could have been a repugnant or likeable character and that may influence how specific actions are viewed when this case goes to court.
The issue that is being protested is that there is a pattern of observed behaviour that disproportionately too many black people die like this that cannot be explained away.
It seems to me that people say even if this particular incident wasn't a result of racism, there are other such incidents that are. But this incident is what sparked it and people all over the World are talking about the racist killing of George Floyd. Add in that several other high-profile killings (e.g. Michael Brown) were found to be justified. Again, I think a lot of the problems are more about police brutality than racism specifically.
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I am not saying they are right but you have to try and understand their mentality. They are a team of 50 people going into a situation where the only thing between them and life changing injuries or worse is the other members of the team.rick_chasey said:
Genuinely, if you look at what the police argument is against accountability it’s basically “no one would be a policeman if we were held accountable for all our actions”pangolin said:
Wow. Poor guy starts bleeding from his ear immediately, not a good sign. Staggering that they are united in defending this.rick_chasey said:pinno said:
By the same token, some police have been kneeling.rick_chasey said:It's easy to pin this all on trump but it's not really to do with him. The police might be a bit more emboldened by him and the racists in it might feel they have more room to be racist, but this is as old as America.
If you look at what the consequences are for US police breaking the rules and what even the rules are for dealing with people, you wouldn't believe it.
I mean, if you wanted to go around killing people, and i mean this quite seriously, why wouldn't you get into the US police force?
Not enough unfortunately.
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Whatever, just going by what I read at the time. Maybe it was bollocks.rick_chasey said:
Mmmmm you not been to any NHL matches recently then?morstar said:
I hadn't appreciated this fact until the Kap situation developed. It was reported quite widely at the time to provide context. It does have a mixed fanbase but is more white conservative than others.rick_chasey said:
Not entirely sure that nfl fans are mainly white is accurate.morstar said:NFL have admitted they backed the wrong horse when silencing players at Trumps request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945934
This is significant too because the NFL fanbase is predominantly white which is why they took a conservative approach. This confirms a shifting in attitudes imho.
Trump is no longer just an offensive moron, he's a dangerous, offensive moron leading a powerful and affluent country into unrest.
As for the NFL, a team hiring Kaepernick would cement this as more than just words.
I always had it down as the one sport which is liked in all parts of America.
NFL went one way for one reason and have now reversed. That was my main point even if influencing factors are open to debate.0 -
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
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kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.0 -
He was being detained for using counterfeit money. There's no indication he was armed. There were 4 officers.nickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.
At the very least this comes back to RC's point that if they are more predisposed to fear and certain presumptions due to his race, that's systematic racism.
And for god's sake, the guy is dead. Not for committing a fairly petty crime, but for being a black whilst doing so.0 -
I am not saying they are not racist but the fact that 85 of them die a year can not help their mindsetFirst.Aspect said:
He was being detained for using counterfeit money. There's no indication he was armed. There were 4 officers.nickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.
At the very least this comes back to RC's point that if they are more predisposed to fear and certain presumptions due to his race, that's systematic racism.
And for god's sake, the guy is dead. Not for committing a fairly petty crime, but for being a black whilst doing so.0 -
Man is stopped by police for relatively minor offence. Man has history of violent offences (which the officers would have been made aware of). For some reason the situation degenerates and the police use far too much force (and deserve long jail sentences). Why would they need to make any presumptions when they already had information about him? You say (without any evidence) that they acted the way they did because he was black. I say it might have been because of his criminal history. Don't you think a white man with a similar criminal history might have been treated the same way They might have been racist (though at least two of the police officers were minorities) but I haven't seen any real evidence for that.First.Aspect said:
He was being detained for using counterfeit money. There's no indication he was armed. There were 4 officers.nickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.
At the very least this comes back to RC's point that if they are more predisposed to fear and certain presumptions due to his race, that's systematic racism.
And for god's sake, the guy is dead. Not for committing a fairly petty crime, but for being a black whilst doing so.0 -
We can say they might be racist but surely that's as far as we can currently go.surrey_commuter said:
I am not saying they are not racist but the fact that 85 of them die a year can not help their mindsetFirst.Aspect said:
He was being detained for using counterfeit money. There's no indication he was armed. There were 4 officers.nickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.
At the very least this comes back to RC's point that if they are more predisposed to fear and certain presumptions due to his race, that's systematic racism.
And for god's sake, the guy is dead. Not for committing a fairly petty crime, but for being a black whilst doing so.0 -
Somewhat undermines the "few bad apples" line.pangolin said:
Wow. Poor guy starts bleeding from his ear immediately, not a good sign. Staggering that they are united in defending this.rick_chasey said:pinno said:
By the same token, some police have been kneeling.rick_chasey said:It's easy to pin this all on trump but it's not really to do with him. The police might be a bit more emboldened by him and the racists in it might feel they have more room to be racist, but this is as old as America.
If you look at what the consequences are for US police breaking the rules and what even the rules are for dealing with people, you wouldn't believe it.
I mean, if you wanted to go around killing people, and i mean this quite seriously, why wouldn't you get into the US police force?
Not enough unfortunately.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
nickice said:
No.First.Aspect said:
Don't you think a white man with a similar criminal history might have been treated the same waynickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.0 -
feelgoodlost said:
Your argument loses a lot of credibility when you consider the fact that a seventy-five-year-old white man is currently in a serious condition in hospital having been pushed over by police.nickice said:
No.First.Aspect said:
Don't you think a white man with a similar criminal history might have been treated the same waynickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.
Also, ever heard of Tony Timpa?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/01/us/tony-timpa-dallas-police-body-cam.html
Outside the USA, look at the number of gilets jaunes (who are predominately white) in France who lost eyes and hands.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2019/11/year-gilets-jaunes-have-lost-24-eyes-and-five-hands-and-made-deep-mark-french
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist nor am I saying that this police officer wasn't racist, but we should at least consider it as partly down to a problem with police brutality.0 -
There is an observable pattern!nickice said:
We can say they might be racist but surely that's as far as we can currently go.surrey_commuter said:
I am not saying they are not racist but the fact that 85 of them die a year can not help their mindsetFirst.Aspect said:
He was being detained for using counterfeit money. There's no indication he was armed. There were 4 officers.nickice said:kingstongraham said:
"more wary around him"?nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
You don't think police would be more wary around someone with a history of violent offences? That doesn't excuse the brutality but it does mean we might not be looking at racism being the reason for it.
At the very least this comes back to RC's point that if they are more predisposed to fear and certain presumptions due to his race, that's systematic racism.
And for god's sake, the guy is dead. Not for committing a fairly petty crime, but for being a black whilst doing so.
Me being drunk one night is evidence I have been drunk.
Me being drunk with regularity may suggest I have a drinking problem.
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They are using the "just following orders" defence. It is hard imagine they were ordered to knock over a 75 year old and then leave him lying on the ground, but if they were then you could understand the feeling that someone else should be blamed. That would be in addition to currently suspended officers in my opinion.rjsterry said:
Somewhat undermines the "few bad apples" line.pangolin said:
Wow. Poor guy starts bleeding from his ear immediately, not a good sign. Staggering that they are united in defending this.rick_chasey said:pinno said:
By the same token, some police have been kneeling.rick_chasey said:It's easy to pin this all on trump but it's not really to do with him. The police might be a bit more emboldened by him and the racists in it might feel they have more room to be racist, but this is as old as America.
If you look at what the consequences are for US police breaking the rules and what even the rules are for dealing with people, you wouldn't believe it.
I mean, if you wanted to go around killing people, and i mean this quite seriously, why wouldn't you get into the US police force?
Not enough unfortunately.0 -
Don't you find it odd that in almost all the well publicised instances of police brutality the victim tends to be black? That seems to be the case in the UK as well as the US. Now it could be that there are loads of unreported cases of white criminals dying at the hands of the police or it could be that they are far more likely to treat black criminals disproportionately violently.nickice said:Would anyone be ready to consider that the killing of George Floyd is not a problem of racist police but police brutality? I ask this because he had a criminal history so police, once they knew that, were going to be more wary around him. That doesn't excuse the actions of the police but surely it might cast doubt on race being the primary factor.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qillJj5RXUs
