Donald Trump

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Figure of speech, innit. As our own former Foreign Secretary seems to be taking notes on Trump's tactics, it's interesting to see how they play out if only to get an idea of what to expect and how to counter it. Seems a bit myopic to think we can't learn anything from the whole Trump episode just because it's happening over there and not here. Many of the issues relating to Trump's election and presidency - Russian interference and the whole 'fake news' phenomenon are completely relevant to UK politics.

Why no threads on Maduro or Duterte? They are extremely unlikely to have anything like the impact of Trump, despite them being far more unpleasant than Trump.

Ben6899

Yeh but Stevo's alright, Jack. It doesn't really matter if millions of impoverished and minority Americans suffer at the hands of Trump's policies.

bianchimoon

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also don't over-react just because I'm not joining in too enthusiastically with your apparent 'right on' anger over Trump - all I said was I didn't expect 373 pages. I'm sure a hundred or so would have done

Not sure what the story is here.
"Man goes on internet to express surprise that thread goes on longer than he expected?"
or "any thread that Stevo has no interest in should be limited to 100 pages"

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Stevo_666

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also don't over-react just because I'm not joining in too enthusiastically with your apparent 'right on' anger over Trump - all I said was I didn't expect 373 pages. I'm sure a hundred or so would have done

Not sure what the story is here.
"Man goes on internet to express surprise that thread goes on longer than he expected?"
or "any thread that Stevo has no interest in should be limited to 100 pages"

Of course not bianchi, you can moan and b1tch to no real effect as much as you like on any thread

Stevo_666

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Which other countries in the free world are taking a lead from Trump? If you believe this thread, the answer is probably 'none'.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Which other countries in the free world are taking a lead from Trump? If you believe this thread, the answer is probably 'none'.

Leaders of the following countries have adopted many of Trump's tactics.
Israel.
Italy.
The Philippines.

Oh and you'll love this one

https://www.politico.eu/article/reveale ... -playbook/

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Which other countries in the free world are taking a lead from Trump? If you believe this thread, the answer is probably 'none'.

Leaders of the following countries have adopted many of Trump's tactics.
Israel.
Italy.
The Philippines.

Oh and you'll love this one

https://www.politico.eu/article/reveale ... -playbook/

Good try. Say what the policy is and show how they have followed Trumps lead rather than coming to to similar tactics on their own. Even if you can, that is 2 or 3 out of how many free countries? (See below)

Corbyn doesn't count as he is opposition and not in power.

Philippines: arguable as to whether it is free:
http://news.abs-cbn.com/focus/10/30/15/how-free-is-the-philippines

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Which other countries in the free world are taking a lead from Trump? If you believe this thread, the answer is probably 'none'.

Leaders of the following countries have adopted many of Trump's tactics.
Israel.
Italy.
The Philippines.

Oh and you'll love this one

https://www.politico.eu/article/reveale ... -playbook/

Good try. Show me how they have followed Trumps lead rather than coming to to similar tactic on their own. Even if you can, that is 2 or 3 out of how many free countries? (See below)

Corbyn doesn't count as he is opposition and not in power.

Philippines: arguable as to whether it is free:
http://news.abs-cbn.com/focus/10/30/15/how-free-is-the-philippines

Wriggle, wriggle. Are you seriously suggesting Netanyahu hasn't been inspired by his friend's successes? It's not as though Trump invented the tactics anyway. His administration has just been particularly effective at deploying them.

The 'Free World' bit has always been largely untrue, given the US's habit of funding dictators and undermining governments according to what it deems to be working in its interest. But it is difficult to argue that it hasn't been the most influential nation for some time, albeit with some stronger competition now from China.

FishFish

Netanhayu comes from a different era than Trump and is not interested in international affairs - just pure selfishness. Israel has a built in extreme nationalism whereas America has an inspired populism. I think that these characteristics are fueled by the leaders in question but they are still fundamentally there.

In most countries a poll would suggest that drugs are against society and that dealers are an enemy to society. This has been fueled by Duterte in the Philippines and the police may have gone too far. In saying that, I was in Davao City a couple of years ago (where Duterte was the mayor) and it does stand out as a well ordered safe Asian city and people were proud of it.

tangled_metal

America doesn't have extreme nationalism? Okay! If you say so.

I'll just drive my car into the next civil protest against racism and shout slogans like blood and soil while I'm doing it. Not extreme and not nationalism and not Trump supporters or not supported by Trump.

robert88

Trump's mentor was Roy Cohn, a leading light during the era of McCarthyism.

In 2001 there was a case that exposed the extreme nationalism of the USA - the then schoolgirl Katie Sierra.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Sie ... velopments

Hardly the 'Land of the Free'

rjsterry

FishFish wrote:

Netanhayu comes from a different era than Trump and is not interested in international affairs - just pure selfishness. Israel has a built in extreme nationalism whereas America has an inspired populism. I think that these characteristics are fueled by the leaders in question but they are still fundamentally there.

In most countries a poll would suggest that drugs are against society and that dealers are an enemy to society. This has been fueled by Duterte in the Philippines and the police may have gone too far. In saying that, I was in Davao City a couple of years ago (where Duterte was the mayor) and it does stand out as a well ordered safe Asian city and people were proud of it.

Agree with a lot of that although if the MAGA is not a nationalist slogan I don't know what is. The original point was that other countries have taken a lead from the success of Trump populism.

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

FishFish wrote:

Netanhayu comes from a different era than Trump and is not interested in international affairs - just pure selfishness. Israel has a built in extreme nationalism whereas America has an inspired populism. I think that these characteristics are fueled by the leaders in question but they are still fundamentally there.

In most countries a poll would suggest that drugs are against society and that dealers are an enemy to society. This has been fueled by Duterte in the Philippines and the police may have gone too far. In saying that, I was in Davao City a couple of years ago (where Duterte was the mayor) and it does stand out as a well ordered safe Asian city and people were proud of it.

Agree with a lot of that although if the MAGA is not a nationalist slogan I don't know what is. The original point was that other countries have taken a lead from the success of Trump populism.

I think it is quite a stretch to make that argument.

robert88

After Trump saw how well it worked for the EU referendum.. At least the UK is leading the world on something!

And Netanyahu (not Netanhayu BTW) is just 3 yrs younger than Trump and US educated - how does that make him a different era?

TheBigBean

Robert88 wrote:

After Trump saw how well it worked for the EU referendum.. At least the UK is leading the world on something!

And Netanyahu (not Netanhayu BTW) is just 3 yrs younger than Trump and US educated - how does that make him a different era?

What was Trump up to in 1996 when Netanyahu first became Prime Minister? Definitely not politics which he started 20 years later.

bianchimoon

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also don't over-react just because I'm not joining in too enthusiastically with your apparent 'right on' anger over Trump - all I said was I didn't expect 373 pages. I'm sure a hundred or so would have done

Not sure what the story is here.
"Man goes on internet to express surprise that thread goes on longer than he expected?"
or "any thread that Stevo has no interest in should be limited to 100 pages"

Of course not bianchi, you can moan and b1tch to no real effect as much as you like on any thread

Thanks for the advice, might give it a go sometime.

rjsterry

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

FishFish wrote:

Netanhayu comes from a different era than Trump and is not interested in international affairs - just pure selfishness. Israel has a built in extreme nationalism whereas America has an inspired populism. I think that these characteristics are fueled by the leaders in question but they are still fundamentally there.

In most countries a poll would suggest that drugs are against society and that dealers are an enemy to society. This has been fueled by Duterte in the Philippines and the police may have gone too far. In saying that, I was in Davao City a couple of years ago (where Duterte was the mayor) and it does stand out as a well ordered safe Asian city and people were proud of it.

Agree with a lot of that although if the MAGA is not a nationalist slogan I don't know what is. The original point was that other countries have taken a lead from the success of Trump populism.

I think it is quite a stretch to make that argument.

Perhaps I should have said "been influenced by the success of Trump populism". Our own Labour party have specifically done this. I think it is highly unlikely that others haven't done the same around the world.

imposter2.0

TheBigBean wrote:

What was Trump up to in 1996 when Netanyahu first became Prime Minister? Definitely not politics which he started 20 years later.

Trump in 1996 - fascinating article here: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12 ... oy-profile

robert88

TheBigBean wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

After Trump saw how well it worked for the EU referendum.. At least the UK is leading the world on something!

And Netanyahu (not Netanhayu BTW) is just 3 yrs younger than Trump and US educated - how does that make him a different era?

What was Trump up to in 1996 when Netanyahu first became Prime Minister? Definitely not politics which he started 20 years later.

Hmm.. 1996 let me think..

Well in 1989 he'd been a principal fund-raiser for the New York Mayor candidate and by 1996 his man* had won. By 1999 Trump was positing his own bid for the White House as a 'Reform Party candidate.

Sounds suspiciously like politics to me.

* Don Giuliani. Oops, meant Rudy, what was I thinking?

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Which other countries in the free world are taking a lead from Trump? If you believe this thread, the answer is probably 'none'.

What do you mean by "taking a lead from"? I mean leading as in taking its responsibilities to international treaties and organisations, and making alliances with countries that share a belief in democracy. I don't mean everyone copying what the USA does.

If the number one economic/military force withdraws from that role, it's destabilising.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it's fairly clear he's a fair bit worse than just a bit of an odious git, he's also 'leader of the free world' not some poxy tin pot dictator.

No, he's the leader of the USA.

Previous presidents have seen being de facto "leader of the free world" as advantageous to the USA.

Which other countries in the free world are taking a lead from Trump? If you believe this thread, the answer is probably 'none'.

Leaders of the following countries have adopted many of Trump's tactics.
Israel.
Italy.
The Philippines.

Oh and you'll love this one

https://www.politico.eu/article/reveale ... -playbook/

Good try. Show me how they have followed Trumps lead rather than coming to to similar tactic on their own. Even if you can, that is 2 or 3 out of how many free countries? (See below)

Corbyn doesn't count as he is opposition and not in power.

Philippines: arguable as to whether it is free:
http://news.abs-cbn.com/focus/10/30/15/how-free-is-the-philippines

Wriggle, wriggle. Are you seriously suggesting Netanyahu hasn't been inspired by his friend's successes? It's not as though Trump invented the tactics anyway. His administration has just been particularly effective at deploying them.

The 'Free World' bit has always been largely untrue, given the US's habit of funding dictators and undermining governments according to what it deems to be working in its interest. But it is difficult to argue that it hasn't been the most influential nation for some time, albeit with some stronger competition now from China.

No, you are wriggling after a weak effort.

Trying to say that Israel, Italy and the Philippines (plus some beardy UK leftie) have done things in line with Trump policy does not mean the free world is taking a lead from him, far from it. It is a small minority of countries. If anything, many countries in the Free world are taking anti-Trump stances so it is much easier to argue that he is not the leader of anything apart from the USA.

Stevo_666

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also don't over-react just because I'm not joining in too enthusiastically with your apparent 'right on' anger over Trump - all I said was I didn't expect 373 pages. I'm sure a hundred or so would have done

Not sure what the story is here.
"Man goes on internet to express surprise that thread goes on longer than he expected?"
or "any thread that Stevo has no interest in should be limited to 100 pages"

Of course not bianchi, you can moan and b1tch to no real effect as much as you like on any thread

Thanks for the advice, might give it a go sometime.

Keep going, I admire consistency Let me know when you've influence DT's policy on anything...

bianchimoon

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also don't over-react just because I'm not joining in too enthusiastically with your apparent 'right on' anger over Trump - all I said was I didn't expect 373 pages. I'm sure a hundred or so would have done

Not sure what the story is here.
"Man goes on internet to express surprise that thread goes on longer than he expected?"
or "any thread that Stevo has no interest in should be limited to 100 pages"

Of course not bianchi, you can moan and b1tch to no real effect as much as you like on any thread

Thanks for the advice, might give it a go sometime.

Keep going, I admire consistency Let me know when you've influence DT's policy on anything...

haha, ditto on brexit or corbyn,

bianchimoon

Quiet impressed by Joe Bidens Eulogy at McCain's memorial yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfjYggdO8q4
goes on a bit, but the part where he criticises trump without naming him comes in about 14 mins

veronese68

Leader of the free world has been in common usage for a long time, everybody knows that it refers to the POTUS. How accurate the description may be is another matter.

Stevo_666

Veronese68 wrote:

How accurate the description may be is another matter.

Exactly.

Stevo_666

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also don't over-react just because I'm not joining in too enthusiastically with your apparent 'right on' anger over Trump - all I said was I didn't expect 373 pages. I'm sure a hundred or so would have done

Not sure what the story is here.
"Man goes on internet to express surprise that thread goes on longer than he expected?"
or "any thread that Stevo has no interest in should be limited to 100 pages"

Of course not bianchi, you can moan and b1tch to no real effect as much as you like on any thread

Thanks for the advice, might give it a go sometime.

Keep going, I admire consistency Let me know when you've influence DT's policy on anything...

haha, ditto on brexit or corbyn,

Well, I did my bit on Brexit by (a) voting to Remain (OK, not entirely successful) and (b) coordinating the Brexit planning for my Group, which is actually quite helpful to us as a business.

And I helped get Corbyn elected so that Labour would not be

What have you managed to do?

Matthewfalle

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ock-market

treasury and economics secretaries confirm that Trump is talking shytte the second he opens his mouth

#dotard

bianchimoon

Stevo 666 wrote:

Well, I did my bit on Brexit by (a) voting to Remain (OK, not entirely successful) and (b) coordinating the Brexit planning for my Group, which is actually quite helpful to us as a business.

And I helped get Corbyn elected so that Labour would not be

What have you managed to do?

Christ (in a non religious sense) you're worse than me for wanting the last word