Donald Trump
Comments
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I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.0 -
Looks like Trump is going to put big taxes on Harley-Davidson. I wonder if Trump has heard the old proverb about cutting your nose off to spite your face........
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ff-big-taxFaster than a tent.......0 -
Reporters without borders like a negative turn of phrase. Put it simply the UK situation sounds like it's one of the worst countries to be a reporter in but looking at its rank it's actually in the top quarter of all countries assessed. Its close to France and not too far behind Germany I think. Something about 5 places above America. Of course that was probably without any potential Trump effect getting through to the scoring system (I'm guessing) but it could be that the constitution prevents presidential excesses affecting the press freedom that significantly.
So basically the wording on the page for UK sounds very negative but it's still very much high up in the rankings. At least. No journalist has been killed unlike America (2 killed).
The reference to Laura Keunessburg (sp.) harassment could be applied equally to politicians. A lot of tory MPs and centre left, Labour MPs have had similar. I suspect it's related to the momentum / newer Labour support or Brexiteers support but I have no information on that.
Interesting how these NGOs come out with an index and everyone takes it as the truth. Does anyone actually know it's got rigorous data collection and analysis? The index seems to say UK doing OK but not the best when the write up surrounding the hard figure that is the index and ranking is read. Kind of like someone's negative opinion not borne out by the figures perhaps?0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:Reporters without borders like a negative turn of phrase. Put it simply the UK situation sounds like it's one of the worst countries to be a reporter in but looking at its rank it's actually in the top quarter of all countries assessed. Its close to France and not too far behind Germany I think. Something about 5 places above America. Of course that was probably without any potential Trump effect getting through to the scoring system (I'm guessing) but it could be that the constitution prevents presidential excesses affecting the press freedom that significantly.
So basically the wording on the page for UK sounds very negative but it's still very much high up in the rankings. At least. No journalist has been killed unlike America (2 killed).
The reference to Laura Keunessburg (sp.) harassment could be applied equally to politicians. A lot of tory MPs and centre left, Labour MPs have had similar. I suspect it's related to the momentum / newer Labour support or Brexiteers support but I have no information on that.
Interesting how these NGOs come out with an index and everyone takes it as the truth. Does anyone actually know it's got rigorous data collection and analysis? The index seems to say UK doing OK but not the best when the write up surrounding the hard figure that is the index and ranking is read. Kind of like someone's negative opinion not borne out by the figures perhaps?
Being slagged off and threatened via social media seems to be par for the course for anyone sticking their head above the parapet these days, be they journalist, politician or other public figure.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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Good article, reminded me of the Adam Curtis Hyper-normalisation documentary currently on iPlayer.briantrumpet wrote:All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....0 -
Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Interesting hypothesis.
Whilst they may not have been a military power they had the industry and wealth to become one fairly quickly.
Don’t forget they are a country of immigrants which added to the debate of neutrality.
I have never really understood why they put so much resource into Europe when their priority must have been the Japanese.0 -
FishFish wrote:Rolf F wrote:Looks like Trump is going to put big taxes on Harley-Davidson. I wonder if Trump has heard the old proverb about cutting your nose off to spite your face........
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ff-big-tax
Well buy a decent bike then.
(Idiot)
You dissing Harley? Did you like Harley last week when Trumpy liked Harley? And who is the idiot? Me for posting a link to an article stating that Trumpy wants to tax Harley or Trumpy because he's very stupid?Faster than a tent.......0 -
Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:
I have never really understood why they put so much resource into Europe when their priority must have been the Japanese.
Broadly speaking vast parts of the US then still had family in Europe or had relatives who had lived there.
It was, in part, an ancestral calling.
It was also the view that a peaceful Europe, still the vastly dominant power with both the French and British Empires, would mean a more peaceful world.
America was essentially still New Europe then, and their ever more wonderful liberal ideas could enhance the land of their parents.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:
I have never really understood why they put so much resource into Europe when their priority must have been the Japanese.
Broadly speaking vast parts of the US then still had family in Europe or had relatives who had lived there.
It was, in part, an ancestral calling.
It was also the view that a peaceful Europe, still the vastly dominant power with both the French and British Empires, would mean a more peaceful world.
America was essentially still New Europe then, and their ever more wonderful liberal ideas could enhance the land of their parents.
It's still not uncommon for Americans to proudly refer to themselves as [European country]-American. Ironic given the current anti-immigration tone of US politics.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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You want to try and get a republican ‘Merican to accept that these days, other than St. Paddy’s day etc? Re Europe v Japan, there is the financial aspect. They were happy to collect on the debt for decades. Nice special relationship that.Surrey Commuter wrote:...Don’t forget they are a country of immigrants which added to the debate of neutrality.
I have never really understood why they put so much resource into Europe when their priority must have been the Japanese.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
there's a good book on the openning up of the north americas (the men who united the states; Simon Winchester) from initial discovery/exploration through to the digital age. Essentially there has always been a north south split with the only value seen in the south being the outlet of the major rivers for the north to trade with the rest of the world. Intereseting that the Author is English!0 -
rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
Is any comment on the US anything but?
It’s 300 million spread over 3 time zones.
You don’t think it’s right? What nuances have I missed?0 -
4 time zones.
excluding Hawaii and Alaska0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:
I have never really understood why they put so much resource into Europe when their priority must have been the Japanese.
Broadly speaking vast parts of the US then still had family in Europe or had relatives who had lived there.
It was, in part, an ancestral calling.
It was also the view that a peaceful Europe, still the vastly dominant power with both the French and British Empires, would mean a more peaceful world.
America was essentially still New Europe then, and their ever more wonderful liberal ideas could enhance the land of their parents.
not a lot left of the French Empire by December 1941.
I get why they would support GB/Russia to stop Germany from winning but I still find it amazing that they prioritised that over Japan.
Then again not as amazed as Hitler declaring war on the USA0 -
orraloon wrote:4 time zones.
excluding Hawaii and Alaska
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Canadian:
Canadian: Americans are so stupid they don't even know how many time zones there are in Canada
TheBigBean: 6
Canadian: No there are only 5.
TheBigBean lists the six time zones.
Canadian: Well, it's not like they are important.0 -
rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
What do you really expect from a xenophobe such as RC?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:
It's still not uncommon for Americans to proudly refer to themselves as [European country]-American. Ironic given the current anti-immigration tone of US politics.
In my limited experience this tends to happen in places like New York, which are hardly typical of the US.
Your experience is very limited then. It's present in almost every state - there'll be German-American towns with a population that regards itself as more German than American (if you'd like to experience the weirdness I can wholeheartedly recommend Fredricksburg in Texarse - which itself is in a region that regards itself as a state of Germany rather than part of the US) and this happens everywhere. There are plenty of Irish-american towns - especially (and ironically!) around New England
and there's a lot of Italian, Spanish and other towns. As has been commented this made them very keen to save Europe from the Nazis as most of them had direct relatives only a generation away in Europe.
It may be this sense of family connection that means that Trump is so proud of his German heritage he's keen to see facism back in his new homeland.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
lostboysaint wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:
It's still not uncommon for Americans to proudly refer to themselves as [European country]-American. Ironic given the current anti-immigration tone of US politics.
In my limited experience this tends to happen in places like New York, which are hardly typical of the US.
Your experience is very limited then. It's present in almost every state - there'll be German-American towns with a population that regards itself as more German than American (if you'd like to experience the weirdness I can wholeheartedly recommend Fredricksburg in Texarse - which itself is in a region that regards itself as a state of Germany rather than part of the US) and this happens everywhere. There are plenty of Irish-american towns - especially (and ironically!) around New England and there's a lot of Italian, Spanish and other towns. As has been commented this made them very keen to save Europe from the Nazis as most of them had direct relatives only a generation away in Europe.
It may be this sense of family connection that means that Trump is so proud of his German heritage he's keen to see facism back in his new homeland.
But that was my original point - those of German, Italian, Spanish, Irish origin were very anti helping the Brits0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
What do you really expect from a xenophobe such as RC?
You don't know what the words you use mean.0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:lostboysaint wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:
It's still not uncommon for Americans to proudly refer to themselves as [European country]-American. Ironic given the current anti-immigration tone of US politics.
In my limited experience this tends to happen in places like New York, which are hardly typical of the US.
Your experience is very limited then. It's present in almost every state - there'll be German-American towns with a population that regards itself as more German than American (if you'd like to experience the weirdness I can wholeheartedly recommend Fredricksburg in Texarse - which itself is in a region that regards itself as a state of Germany rather than part of the US) and this happens everywhere. There are plenty of Irish-american towns - especially (and ironically!) around New England and there's a lot of Italian, Spanish and other towns. As has been commented this made them very keen to save Europe from the Nazis as most of them had direct relatives only a generation away in Europe.
It may be this sense of family connection that means that Trump is so proud of his German heritage he's keen to see facism back in his new homeland.
But that was my original point - those of German, Italian, Spanish, Irish origin were very anti helping the Brits
In their heads they weren't helping the Brits, they were saving their kin and the alliance was the way to achieve it. Not all Germans were Nazis and Italians and Spanish facists in the Mussonlini and Franco moulds.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
Is any comment on the US anything but?
It’s 300 million spread over 3 time zones.
You don’t think it’s right? What nuances have I missed?
Rural communities the world over tend to be small c conservative in their outlook but I'm not sure that's the same as 'far right'.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Rolf F wrote:FishFish wrote:Rolf F wrote:Looks like Trump is going to put big taxes on Harley-Davidson. I wonder if Trump has heard the old proverb about cutting your nose off to spite your face........
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ff-big-tax
Well buy a decent bike then.
(Idiot)
You dissing Harley? Did you like Harley last week when Trumpy liked Harley? And who is the idiot? Me for posting a link to an article stating that Trumpy wants to tax Harley or Trumpy because he's very stupid?
Thanks. I've no idea what a harley is but they are idiotic. I have always found them to be so and for consistency will continue to do so.
Clearly I am not an idiot , nor is the President and the evidence you have presented in your favour is hardly persuasive....take your pickelf on your holibobs....
jeez :roll:0 -
rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
Is any comment on the US anything but?
It’s 300 million spread over 3 time zones.
You don’t think it’s right? What nuances have I missed?
Rural communities the world tend to be small c conservative in their outlook but I'm not sure that's the same as 'far right'.
I had to join my parents on a driving tour through large swathes of Western America as a teenager.
Nothing I saw made me think they were anything but somewhere on the far right spectrum.
All their values line up nicely.
No diversity (gays, female leaders) conformity is crucial, usually openly racist, penchant for military and punitive law and big supporters of traditional roles of men and women (which can often have a racialist tinge).
Broadly speaking they keep themselves to themselves because space is not a problem and they don’t need the hassle of city folk telling them what to think.
So maybe all those towns are not representative.
Then again, the US voted for Trump....0 -
FishFish wrote:Rolf F wrote:FishFish wrote:Rolf F wrote:Looks like Trump is going to put big taxes on Harley-Davidson. I wonder if Trump has heard the old proverb about cutting your nose off to spite your face........
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ff-big-tax
Well buy a decent bike then.
(Idiot)
You dissing Harley? Did you like Harley last week when Trumpy liked Harley? And who is the idiot? Me for posting a link to an article stating that Trumpy wants to tax Harley or Trumpy because he's very stupid?
Thanks. I've no idea what a harley is but they are idiotic. I have always found them to be so and for consistency will continue to do so.
Clearly I am not an idiot , nor is the President and the evidence you have presented in your favour is hardly persuasive.
OK, so something you have always found idiotic is something you don't know what it is? That's probably a comforting viewpoint to have.
Clearly you are clearly not not an idiot. Likewise Trump. As to me, I have presented no evidence as to my idiocy or lack of it as there has been no reason for me to do so given that you haven't even made it clear that you think I am an idiot nor given me a reason why (though maybe I am for replying to Russian chat bots). And if I did, you wouldn't understand it so what would be the point?Faster than a tent.......0 -
That is far from clear, the evidence indicates that the reverse is true.FishFish wrote:Clearly I am not an idiot.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Robert88 wrote:I've never thought that Trump was a sudden change in the USA, e.g. that Obama's 'reign' was the last in a golden age. By no means.
It seems to me that Ronald Reagan's era was the one that truly marks a directional change when the underclass was created and other Americans learned to despise and persecute them. An almost unknown journalist Dale Maharidge made an epic journey across the USA to discover what was happening and wrote up his experiences in 'Journey to Nowhere'.
Nobody listened and now Trump has capitalised on the downward spiral described by Maharidge.
People don't listen or believe that bad things can happen until it's too late. A very good description accounting for the Fishfishes and SteveO's of this world here:
It’s Happening Here Because Americans Can’t Admit it’s Happening Here
Why History is Repeating Itself at Light Speed in AmericaAmerica’s long told Americans that it’s the nation which saves the world from fascism, authoritarianism, and things like concentration camps. And maybe, in some way, it has been — yet it also been the nation that produced those very things, too. Every nation is flawed, therefore. But Americans do not really understand or know their own nation’s flaws — not just, for example, slavery, but the inspiration the Nazis took from it. So here are Americans are — they are idealizing history. But the one who idealizes history can scarcely understand when he is repeating its tragedies, can he?
Let's be realistic about the USA, it as a country was not a military power in the 1930s. There was a huge split across the nation about whether to just let Hitler get on with it. FDR was the leader of the interventionsists; Lindbergh, with his Nazi sympathies led the isolationists. Only when attacked by Japan was the matter decided. Once involved the nation puffed itself up as the saviour of the free world but it was a narrow thing. Certainly there are Americans who fit the stereotypical image but also a heck of lot who think the other way.
Rural America has been far right pretty much from the get go and there hasn't really been anything to change that; not even a civil war.
I guess now their own remoteness and distance (physically) from the organs that tend to shape public opinion has become less relevant with the proliferation of endless iterations of media, catering for every niche there is.
As sweeping generalisations go, that is a whopper.
Is any comment on the US anything but?
It’s 300 million spread over 3 time zones.
You don’t think it’s right? What nuances have I missed?
Rural communities the world over tend to be small c conservative in their outlook but I'm not sure that's the same as 'far right'.
I had to join my parents on a driving tour through large swathes of Western America as a teenager.
Nothing I saw made me think they were anything but somewhere on the far right spectrum.
All their values line up nicely.
No diversity (gays, female leaders) conformity is crucial, usually openly racist, penchant for military and punitive law and big supporters of traditional roles of men and women (which can often have a racialist tinge).
Broadly speaking they keep themselves to themselves because space is not a problem and they don’t need the hassle of city folk telling them what to think.
So maybe all those towns are not representative.
Then again, the US voted for Trump....
The stereotype of rural Britain is much the same with less of a crush on guns, but in my experience its very wide of the mark. Nobody likes being told what to think.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
