Donald Trump

Stevo_666

bianchimoon wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

This article is well timed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-migrants

I guess the hand wringing and exaggeration is official now that it's in the Guardian.

These articles put the counter argument very effectively while I go sun myself and relax:
https://m.jpost.com/US-Elections/Donald-Trump/Jewish-author-Dont-compare-Trump-to-Hitler-it-belittles-Hitler-467701
https://theconversation.com/trump-hitler-comparisons-too-easy-and-ignore-the-murderous-history-92394

Neither of those articles seems to move past the simplistic Trump isn't Hitler cos he hasn't gassed 6 million Jews argument.


Use sunscreen.

The second article references quiet a few similarities between trump and the rise of fascism in Europe in the 30’s, good of stevo to help the argument against his own point or lack of

Try reading it again

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder that isn't centre leftie speculation. I'll check in next week to see how you're doing

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Trump is undoubtedly pushing against the checks on his powers. There are various examples (just one of which is Weimar Germany) of what happens when that pushing succeeds in overcoming limits on executive power. It doesn't have to culminate in state organised mass murder to be disastrous. Maybe like Chile under Pinochet, it might end in just a relatively modest amount of state sponsored murder.

john1967

rjsterry wrote:

It's so much more comforting to sit in the sun and pretend stuff isn't happening.

living is easy with eyes closed.......John Lennon.

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Trump is undoubtedly pushing against the checks on his powers. There are various examples (just one of which is Weimar Germany) of what happens when that pushing succeeds in overcoming limits on executive power. It doesn't have to culminate in state organised mass murder to be disastrous. Maybe like Chile under Pinochet, it might end in just a relatively modest amount of state sponsored murder.

The US was happily engaged in state sponsored murder, espionage on its own citizens and the blocking of the judiciary before Trump.

Trump has no support amongst the various agencies, so they will do what they can to oppose him. Hence why many of his executive orders have been blocked by judges, the FBI is doing its best to prosecute him and the NSA is doing its best to help them.

The man is incapable of concentrating for longer than it takes to write a tweet, he has no goal other than popularity and he changes his mind every hour. He can't even keep his staff.

In my opinion, he has no resemblance to the Hitler of the 20s, 30s or 40s, and I'm really surprised anyone is trying to make the connection.

rjsterry

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Trump is undoubtedly pushing against the checks on his powers. There are various examples (just one of which is Weimar Germany) of what happens when that pushing succeeds in overcoming limits on executive power. It doesn't have to culminate in state organised mass murder to be disastrous. Maybe like Chile under Pinochet, it might end in just a relatively modest amount of state sponsored murder.

The US was happily engaged in state sponsored murder, espionage on its own citizens and the blocking of the judiciary before Trump.

Trump has no support amongst the various agencies, so they will do what they can to oppose him. Hence why many of his executive orders have been blocked by judges, the FBI is doing its best to prosecute him and the NSA is doing its best to help them.

The man is incapable of concentrating for longer than it takes to write a tweet, he has no goal other than popularity and he changes his mind every hour. He can't even keep his staff.

In my opinion, he has no resemblance to the Hitler of the 20s, 30s or 40s, and I'm really surprised anyone is trying to make the connection.

Of course they were so why Stevo's denial that it's even a possibility now?

Not sure I agree he has no support. His judicial nominations are almost entirely in line with his view of the world.

rjsterry

No-one apart from Stevo is talking about an exact re-run of '30s Germany. I think the words were "enough similarities to make a comparison".

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

No-one apart from Stevo is talking about an exact re-run of '30s Germany. I think the words were "enough similarities to make a comparison".

I don't think there are enough material similarities to make a comparison.

On the other hand, we may be witnessing the decline of a superpower as the rest of the world increasingly takes it less seriously and looks to trade elsewhere.

robert88

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

No-one apart from Stevo is talking about an exact re-run of '30s Germany. I think the words were "enough similarities to make a comparison".

I don't think there are enough material similarities to make a comparison.

On the other hand, we may be witnessing the decline of a superpower as the rest of the world increasingly takes it less seriously and looks to trade elsewhere.

You can can compare to anyone else - it doesn't make them identical!

Your second point is more useful. China is likely to pass the USA in economic terms if not militarily within a decade. We can then look at Germany in the 30s and find that Hitler was accusing the USA and Britain of encirclement as a means of degrading Germany's economy. In a similar way Trump is lashing out at Europe, Canada and China and could cause a lot of trouble. He also uses minorities as scapegoats as Hitler did. Germany embarked on a programme of re-armament before invading its neighbours; the USA is already by far the world's biggest military superpower but seems rather too incompetent to gain much benefit from its operations*. What will it do as its supremacy declines?

*In May 1945 Eisenhower messaged the US War Dept: "The mission of this Allied Force was fulfilled at 02:41, local time, May 7th 1945." Since then no American high command has been able to say its mission has been fulfilled. (Andrew J. Bracevich)

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Not sure I agree he has no support. His judicial nominations are almost entirely in line with his view of the world.

And both Senate and Congress are letting him push the tyrannical boundaries without consequence, not upholding their oaths of office. He's their useful idiot, but it's idiocy with a purpose.

The Republicans are using him, but it's a high-risk strategy, and if the Republic is wounded, the blood will be on their hands. As the lifelong Republican Steve Schmidt (GWB's strategist, amongst other things) said, on renouncing his membership of the party recently:

"Trump didn’t destroy the Republican Party—it’s the cowardice of the Republican leaders, their complicity in all of it, the lack of courage to stand up for what's right.

“Republican members of Congress are cowed and fearful of Trump and they have abrogated their oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States from Trump's attacks on the rule of law; on objective truth; his defilement of important institutions; his sundering of the American people; his betrayals of the Atlantic alliance; his racism; and his cruelty. The party has become profoundly corrupt, both financially in the form of men like Scott Pruitt and Jared [Kushner] and Ivanka [Trump], but also intellectually rotten and corrupt.”

Pross

Robert88 wrote:

*In May 1945 Eisenhower messaged the US War Dept: "The mission of this Allied Force was fulfilled at 02:41, local time, May 7th 1945." Since then no American high command has been able to say its mission has been fulfilled. (Andrew J. Bracevich)

The Commander In Chief said it in 2003 though "mission accomplished"

robert88

Pross wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

*In May 1945 Eisenhower messaged the US War Dept: "The mission of this Allied Force was fulfilled at 02:41, local time, May 7th 1945." Since then no American high command has been able to say its mission has been fulfilled. (Andrew J. Bracevich)

The Commander In Chief said it in 2003 though "mission accomplished"

..and the POTUS never lies

FishFish

Yes they do. Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon lied about the fatalities on American troops during Vietnam.

FishFish

GREAT news. Donald is coming to the UK and going to see Her Majesty and hopefully be inaugurated as a KCGC.

Going to Scotland too - a country full of idiots - but with a charm and beauty (country - not the people of course) that is magnificent. I hope he buys it.

Not going to Wales or Ireland - a politician showing excellent judgement.

God Bless Mr Trump - Saviour of the World!

cooldad

You're trying too hard.

A decent troll would be more subtle.

tailwindhome

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Trump is undoubtedly pushing against the checks on his powers. There are various examples (just one of which is Weimar Germany) of what happens when that pushing succeeds in overcoming limits on executive power. It doesn't have to culminate in state organised mass murder to be disastrous. Maybe like Chile under Pinochet, it might end in just a relatively modest amount of state sponsored murder.

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We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents..

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Sounds like backtracking, as it seemed pretty clear to me what several people were claiming would probably happen.

And nobody has come with any evidence in response after I asked.

surrey_commuter

Pross wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

*In May 1945 Eisenhower messaged the US War Dept: "The mission of this Allied Force was fulfilled at 02:41, local time, May 7th 1945." Since then no American high command has been able to say its mission has been fulfilled. (Andrew J. Bracevich)

The Commander In Chief said it in 2003 though "mission accomplished"

OK I will fall for the obvious pitfall - what about the war in the Pacific?

On a smaller scale the invasions of Grenada and Panama were pretty successful

surrey_commuter

So for all you straw clutches how about these steps towards being the next nazi Germany

Taking power away from Parliament and concentrating it in the Executive
Rearmament with weapons for offence
Blaming foreigners for economic problems
Media accusing Jews of being traitors
Appoint a fvck wit weak leader so the population looks enviously at overseas strong leadership

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Sounds like backtracking, as it seemed pretty clear to me what several people were claiming would probably happen.

And nobody has come with any evidence in response after I asked.

Several people weren't claiming that 'state organised mass murder' would 'probably happen'

Classic straw man trolling, with an 'I've better things to do' chaser.

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Sounds like backtracking, as it seemed pretty clear to me what several people were claiming would probably happen.

And nobody has come with any evidence in response after I asked.

Several people weren't claiming that 'state organised mass murder' would 'probably happen'

Classic straw man trolling, with an 'I've better things to do' chaser.

So what have people been getting so agitated about over the last few pages then? If there's nothing to worry about there wouldn't be all this posting of comparisons to the Nazis, would there?

Classic case of you not reading the thread, or not understanding some pretty clear implications being made.

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Sounds like backtracking, as it seemed pretty clear to me what several people were claiming would probably happen.

And nobody has come with any evidence in response after I asked.

Several people weren't claiming that 'state organised mass murder' would 'probably happen'

Classic straw man trolling, with an 'I've better things to do' chaser.

So what have people been getting so agitated about over the last few pages then? If there's nothing to worry about there wouldn't be all this posting of comparisons to the Nazis, would there?

Classic case of you not reading the thread, or not understanding some pretty clear implications being made.

'Implications' now instead of 'claiming would probably happen'?

Backtrack then claim people are 'agitated' and don't understand

It's all the hits tonight.

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

So for all you straw clutches how about these steps towards being the next nazi Germany

Taking power away from Parliament and concentrating it in the Executive
Rearmament with weapons for offence
Blaming foreigners for economic problems
Media accusing Jews of being traitors
Appoint a fvck wit weak leader so the population looks enviously at overseas strong leadership

I see what you did there.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

And try getting some evidence that the US is headed for state organised mass murder

Why?

That's not what anyone is arguing. No-one is saying this will happen.

Sounds like backtracking, as it seemed pretty clear to me what several people were claiming would probably happen.

And nobody has come with any evidence in response after I asked.

I think you were the first one to link Trump and Nazi genocide, to which RC posted "Probably not but you’d be ignorant to suggest there are not enough similarities to warrant a comparison."

How did you read "probably not" as "would probably happen"?

tangled_metal

He constructs an argument based on exaggerations of what people did not say to make the idea sound ridiculous. Then it is easier for ppl to disagree with the more reasonable version people actually did say.

I think the argument Stevo is twisting goes something like this.

In the early days of Hitler's regime he carried out actions which undermined the democracy of Germany at the time. Stretched the constitution and started the process that allowed for him to eventually become the kind of leader he became.

In the early days of Trump's leadership he tested the constitution. Some of those got confronted others have not. Whilst impossible to read the future to say what will happen it is possible to look around to see if there are any similarities with other POTUS or other nation's leaders past and present to see if he's copying a previous pattern. If that pattern is Hitler's then whether he ends up following it all the way or only a small part of the way it's still a little bit worrying.

BTW I freely admit that I don't know enough any Hitler's early years in power to comment on that aspect. I can say Trump worries me more than a little bit.

kingstongraham

Stevo is saying that as long as it doesn't get as far as mass state sponsored murder, there's nothing to worry about.

dinyull

bianchimoon

Stevo trying to change the narrative to suit his agenda... now who else does that.. ahh yes potus45

briantrumpet

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo is saying that as long as it doesn't get as far as mass state sponsored murder, there's nothing to worry about.

Yeah, nothing to worry about when he proposes bypassing the rule of law when it suits him and people with brown skin are involved, or not too many children are lost in the system.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/us/p ... ocess.html

This is what the policy looks like: a mother detained, and the official didn't give the mother a contact number for her 8-month-old daughter who'd been taken away. Move along, nothing to see... it's all fine.

bianchimoon

Another thing, reporters, senators, congressman and more importantly the American red cross are being denied access to these sites to view conditions, the only info they can get is officially released press statements and photographs. A lot of the MSM are refusing to run with a Government only version of news from these camps.

kingstongraham

Whataboutism reaching its peak on this issue. "Obama did it too". I can't help wondering why (even if it were true) that would make it OK, because the people who say this have never previously agreed anything Obama did.