TdF 2015 - Stage 4 - Seraing - Cambria ***Spoilers***
Comments
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Nibbles putting a minute or two into the rivals had nothing to do with it then.
If you don't want to continue a conversation then I suggest you be a tad more polite than "revisionist piffle" and make a proper, adult argument.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
^^ No, because the cobbles are put in to encourage the possibility of riders losing time through mishap. This is particularly true now as in years gone by all the GC riders would ride carefully over the cobbles and let the cobble specialists do their thing - much like used to happen in bunch sprints. But now this doesnt happen and what we ll have is 190 odd riders in blind panic trying to keep up in case something happens - which makes it more likely that something will etc.
As I said last year there is a difference between smaller groups of classics specialists hitting cobbles - and getting in the car if they re dropped - vs 190 odd riders - most of whom do not ride cobbles regularly or are climbing specialists - hitting the cobbles and HAVING to stay in touch.
There are plenty of cobbled races in the spring. They can stay there
I disagree with the term "mishap". I would agree they are there to encourage the possibility of time gaps and a panicky peloton .
But what goes for the cobbles in those terms, goes for a stage designed with 50km finish of exposed coast.
Many more crashes on this year's stage one, than last year's stage five.
Nibali's reversal of fortune serves to highlight this."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
that comment was revisionist piffle.
Top quality put down.0 -
Nibbles putting a minute or two into the rivals had nothing to do with it then.
If you don't want to continue a conversation then I suggest you be a tad more polite than "revisionist piffle" and make a proper, adult argument.
"A minute or two" made the GC contest a snoozefest? He mullered everyone who was left in the race on every single mountain stage and won the overall by what, 8 minutes? The only two who might have made a difference weren't in the race due to crashes - one on a transitional sprint stage, the other on an apparently innocuous descent.
I'm all for people having their positions on the suitability or otherwise of cobbles in a grand tour, but the idea that Nibbles' time gains on that stage killed the race is wrong-headed on a purely logical level - the gaps weren't much worse than a long TT. Nevermind that those sorts of gaps occur on all sorts of stages.
And "revisionist piffle" is hardly impolite.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643515#p19643515]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:^^ No, because the cobbles are put in to encourage the possibility of riders losing time through mishap. This is particularly true now as in years gone by all the GC riders would ride carefully over the cobbles and let the cobble specialists do their thing - much like used to happen in bunch sprints. But now this doesnt happen and what we ll have is 190 odd riders in blind panic trying to keep up in case something happens - which makes it more likely that something will etc.
As I said last year there is a difference between smaller groups of classics specialists hitting cobbles - and getting in the car if they re dropped - vs 190 odd riders - most of whom do not ride cobbles regularly or are climbing specialists - hitting the cobbles and HAVING to stay in touch.
There are plenty of cobbled races in the spring. They can stay there
I disagree with the term "mishap". I would agree they are there to encourage the possibility of time gaps and a panicky peloton .
But what goes for the cobbles in those terms, goes for a stage designed with 50km finish of exposed coast.
Many more crashes on this year's stage one, than last year's stage five.
Nibali's reversal of fortune serves to highlight this.
Getting a bit repetitive now but the stage is starting soon so we can stop. But a stage along an exposed coast may or may not have a breeze whereas a stage with cobbles will always have cobbles. I rode along the same stretch of coast last night and it was lovely. Tomorrow it looks to be a dead calm with drizzle, Thursday it should be nice again. It's not random but it's certainly not "plan-able"We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Nibbles putting a minute or two into the rivals had nothing to do with it then.
If you don't want to continue a conversation then I suggest you be a tad more polite than "revisionist piffle" and make a proper, adult argument.
"A minute or two" made the GC contest a snoozefest? He mullered everyone who was left in the race on every single mountain stage and won the overall by what, 8 minutes? The only two who might have made a difference weren't in the race due to crashes - one on a transitional sprint stage, the other on an apparently innocuous descent.
I'm all for people having their positions on the suitability or otherwise of cobbles in a grand tour, but the idea that Nibbles' time gains on that stage killed the race is wrong-headed on a purely logical level - the gaps weren't much worse than a long TT. Nevermind that those sorts of gaps occur on all sorts of stages.
And "revisionist piffle" is hardly impolite.
Sir that is an insult, and I demand satisfaction!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Nibbles putting a minute or two into the rivals had nothing to do with it then.
If you don't want to continue a conversation then I suggest you be a tad more polite than "revisionist piffle" and make a proper, adult argument.
"A minute or two" made the GC contest a snoozefest? He mullered everyone who was left in the race on every single mountain stage and won the overall by what, 8 minutes? The only two who might have made a difference weren't in the race due to crashes - one on a transitional sprint stage, the other on an apparently innocuous descent.
I'm all for people having their positions on the suitability or otherwise of cobbles in a grand tour, but the idea that Nibbles' time gains on that stage killed the race is wrong-headed on a purely logical level - the gaps weren't much worse than a long TT. Nevermind that those sorts of gaps occur on all sorts of stages.
It's easy to muller people when they re not racing you any more but concentrating on the 2nd/3rd place. He rode to defend a 1-2 min lead throughout the mountains then when it was clear no one cared about him went for the stages. He rode bloody well. but he couldnt have done(well, he could, but it would have been a hell of a lot more risky) what he did without gaining that advantage
Look at it another way - were any of the following stages good? I recall an awful lot of whinging personally...
Somewhat childish though eh? The sort of thing Nigel Farage would say when he has nt got a point...And "revisionist piffle" is hardly impolite.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Any hoo...The flag has dropped with Lieuwe Westra (Astana) and Thomas De Gendt (Lotto-Soudal) launching an attack. They have been joined by Perrig Quémeneur (Europcar) and Frédéric Brun (Bretagne-Séché Environnement) to create a four-man breakWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Westra up the road for Nibali and Boom to bridge to later?0
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Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Any hoo...The flag has dropped with Lieuwe Westra (Astana) and Thomas De Gendt (Lotto-Soudal) launching an attack. They have been joined by Perrig Quémeneur (Europcar) and Frédéric Brun (Bretagne-Séché Environnement) to create a four-man break
Interesting strategy from my mannest of men there. Cobbles not usually his thing."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.
I
AM
STUNNEDWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Be interesting to know if they're getting paid, or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643553#p19643553]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Any hoo...The flag has dropped with Lieuwe Westra (Astana) and Thomas De Gendt (Lotto-Soudal) launching an attack. They have been joined by Perrig Quémeneur (Europcar) and Frédéric Brun (Bretagne-Séché Environnement) to create a four-man break
Interesting strategy from my mannest of men there. Cobbles not usually his thing.
Fairly common strategy for him isn't it? As pelotons are also not his thing.0 -
Be interesting to know if they're getting paid, or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.
Tbh, even if they are volunteering it should not be allowed.Contador is the Greatest0 -
@GiantAlpecin 43m43 minutes ago
#TDF2015 Challenging day for our mechanics; some guys will swap their Giant TCR's for Defy's along the road.Contador is the Greatest0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643553#p19643553]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Any hoo...The flag has dropped with Lieuwe Westra (Astana) and Thomas De Gendt (Lotto-Soudal) launching an attack. They have been joined by Perrig Quémeneur (Europcar) and Frédéric Brun (Bretagne-Séché Environnement) to create a four-man break
Interesting strategy from my mannest of men there. Cobbles not usually his thing.
Fairly common strategy for him isn't it? As pelotons are also not his thing.
Well, yes... I had thought he would keep his powder dry for some raids on the KOM points in the medium mountain stages."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
... or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.
Plenty of us would love to be part of it."The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0 -
Well look at the motorhome thing - you would assume that if the UCI have a problem with them doing this then a ban or limit on the number of helpers will be their response. You can't expect them to ban every possible action a team could take before it happens.
Be interesting to know if they're getting paid, or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.
Tbh, even if they are volunteering it should not be allowed.0 -
Westra up the road for Nibali and Boom to bridge to later?
Spare parts depot....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
... or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.
Plenty of us would love to be part of it.
Any excuse to whip on that black lycra eh!Contador is the Greatest0 -
Be interesting to know if they're getting paid, or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.
Tbh, even if they are volunteering it should not be allowed.
If you ban that, you'd have to ban anybody taking any water or other assistance from anyone on the roadside. Every team does this in the spring."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
... or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.
Plenty of us would love to be part of it.
Any excuse to whip on that black lycra eh!
Got to be better than AG2R brown though surely?Correlation is not causation.0 -
The new GoPro Hero4 Session is making its Tour de France debut today. Simon Geschke will one of them on his bike today.
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Be interesting to know if they're getting paid, or if they're volunteers who've been bunged a t-shirt and a sandwich for their trouble.Sky with their corporate budget have been able to employ a ridiculous amount of helpers for this stage to line the various secteurs. Not sure the UCI should allow that tbh.
Tbh, even if they are volunteering it should not be allowed.
Why?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643580#p19643580]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:If you ban that, you'd have to ban anybody taking any water or other assistance from anyone on the roadside. Every team does this in the spring.
You reckon every team should dot 20 additional 'helpers' around the narrow and packed course? Would get...interesting.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Apologies if someone has mentioned it but what's the weather forecasted for today?0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643580#p19643580]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:If you ban that, you'd have to ban anybody taking any water or other assistance from anyone on the roadside. Every team does this in the spring.
You reckon every team should dot 20 additional 'helpers' around the narrow and packed course? Would get...interesting.
They do. Look at any video of Flanders or Roubaix and you'll see loads of guys at the end of each sector in team kit or street clothes just holding up wheels. As you say, the roads are narrow so it takes the cars ages to get up to them.
BMC had Cadel doing it at Flanders."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0
