TdF 2015 - Stage 4 - Seraing - Cambria ***Spoilers***
Comments
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Dry, K8-S, will the sky guys hit the front?
Wet, K8-S, will Chris Froome remain upright?0 -
Dry, K8-S, will the sky guys hit the front?
Wet, K8-S, will Chris Froome remain upright?
Ah yes, cos he can't ride cobbles. He always falls off. Based on him not riding any cobbles and breaking his wrist the day before them last year."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Chris Froome bike handling would definitely be in BR Bingo"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Good day for team my man with Cavendish, Stybar, Degenkolb and Vanmarke fighting it out for the stage and Tony Martin going for yellow.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643358#p19643358]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Dry, K8-S, will the sky guys hit the front?
Wet, K8-S, will Chris Froome remain upright?
Ah yes, cos he can't ride cobbles. He always falls off. Based on him not riding any cobbles and breaking his wrist the day before them last year.
Who can ride cobbles in the wet, it's pot luck!0 -
Good day for team my man with Cavendish, Stybar, Degenkolb and Vanmarke fighting it out for the stage and Tony Martin going for yellow.
No mention of Kristoff. Surely he's in with a good shout, especially if it comes down to a sprint.
More I think about it the less I think Sep will be able to do it.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643358#p19643358]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Dry, K8-S, will the sky guys hit the front?
Wet, K8-S, will Chris Froome remain upright?
Ah yes, cos he can't ride cobbles. He always falls off. Based on him not riding any cobbles and breaking his wrist the day before them last year.
Who can ride cobbles in the wet, it's pot luck!
It clearly is not pot luck. There is skill and technique involved which Rick has already pointed out in the thread.0 -
Can't wait for this stage and it's going to be really interesting to see how it unfolds. Nibali and or Quintana have a legitimate chance to cancel out any time lost give the nature of the cobbles but conversely Froome could actually put more time into rivals. If Froome gets distanced at all I think Sky are pretty well set up with Rowe, Thomas and Stannard so as not to lose major time today.0
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After doing a dry and wet RVV sportive I agree that it's not pot luck. They guys I know that can handle bikes had no problems in the wet. The guys I know that are a bit more uncertain had nightmares... #AmateurAnecdoteWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643358#p19643358]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Dry, K8-S, will the sky guys hit the front?
Wet, K8-S, will Chris Froome remain upright?
Ah yes, cos he can't ride cobbles. He always falls off. Based on him not riding any cobbles and breaking his wrist the day before them last year.
Who can ride cobbles in the wet, it's pot luck!
It clearly is not pot luck. There is skill and technique involved which Rick has already pointed out in the thread.
Yes, explained well made sense, missed it as it went to the second page. It doesn't change the fact if you hit a shinny wet angled cobble you are on your arse!0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643326#p19643326]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:see 364 days ago...
What happened 364 days ago that gives you so much concern over cobbles?
Bertie (and I'm no fan of his) and the other GC contenders lost time, through no fault of their own or not becasue they had a bad day etc, which meant the rest of the the race was a snooze fest. All credit to Nibali but we sacrificed a 3 week long tantric sex session for a quick one off the wrist...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
1. Low cortisol levels combined with exercise can cause dizziness, inattentiveness and brain fog. Riders with low cortisol levels are a potential hazard to themselves and other riders. Whilst it is true that riders riding with an injury may also present a hazard to themselves and other riders due to lack of concentration or inability to handle a bike as well as an uninjured rider, there is no simple test to decide whether that would be the case. In the absence of such a test it must be left down to each team who one would hope would act responsibly in the best interests of the rider himself and the peloton as a whole.Today riders will start the stage with dislocated shoulders and broken bones. This is deemed OK.
But low cortisol levels, that's apparently a health risk.
Explain that MPCC
2. There is no link between a broken bone and PED use.0 -
Top 5 from time trial 2 days ago:
10 minutes down
1 second down
Out cracked vertebrae
Out various
15 minutes down0 -
1. Low cortisol levels combined with exercise can cause dizziness, inattentiveness and brain fog. Riders with low cortisol levels are a potential hazard to themselves and other riders. Whilst it is true that riders riding with an injury may also present a hazard to themselves and other riders due to lack of concentration or inability to handle a bike as well as an uninjured rider, there is no simple test to decide whether that would be the case. In the absence of such a test it must be left down to each team who one would hope would act responsibly in the best interests of the rider himself and the peloton as a whole.Today riders will start the stage with dislocated shoulders and broken bones. This is deemed OK.
But low cortisol levels, that's apparently a health risk.
Explain that MPCC
2. There is no link between a broken bone and PED use.
Good point, well explained.0 -
Wet cobbles are perfectly rideable, you just need to plan a bit further ahead, as regards your lines, and use a slightly lower gear. I appreciate that the former is a bit more difficult to do in a speeding peloton. Generally, you'll feel your back wheel skipping about a bit more, but the uneven nature of the surface tends to arrest any slide before you fishtail it. Oh, and don't ride through any water if you can't see what's at the bottom!
Admittedly, this is based on my experience in Flanders (and the Koppenberg is unrideable in the wet as everyone on this years RVV sportif will testify), Roubaix cobbles are a bit different."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643326#p19643326]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:see 364 days ago...
What happened 364 days ago that gives you so much concern over cobbles?
Bertie (and I'm no fan of his) and the other GC contenders lost time, through no fault of their own or not becasue they had a bad day etc, which meant the rest of the the race was a snooze fest. All credit to Nibali but we sacrificed a 3 week long tantric sex session for a quick one off the wrist...
But is that not, as was posted up thread, the same thing that we saw in Monday's wet and windy echelon racing?
The primary influence for both being the timing of bad weather."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Cobbles are tricky.
I'm beginning to think Nibs was a lot better last year.
In which case, cobbles present a different prospect.
They get exponentially difficult as you get slower. You need to stay above the 37-40kph mark and you can really fly over that, but as soon as you can't quite hold that and you drop to 35kph, it gets so much more difficult and so the vicious cycle continues and you are dropped.
Don't see him being able to do what he did last year again.
Chasey nails it here. Momentum is king"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
^^ No, because the cobbles are put in to encourage the possibility of riders losing time through mishap. This is particularly true now as in years gone by all the GC riders would ride carefully over the cobbles and let the cobble specialists do their thing - much like used to happen in bunch sprints. But now this doesnt happen and what we ll have is 190 odd riders in blind panic trying to keep up in case something happens - which makes it more likely that something will etc.
As I said last year there is a difference between smaller groups of classics specialists hitting cobbles - and getting in the car if they re dropped - vs 190 odd riders - most of whom do not ride cobbles regularly or are climbing specialists - hitting the cobbles and HAVING to stay in touch.
There are plenty of cobbled races in the spring. They can stay thereWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I don't buy that. A few years ago Andy Schleck managed to hitch a ride with Spartacus and come through a cobbled stage ok. These guys have known for months that cobbles were in. Go and practice.
Something can happen on any stage as we have just seen. There could be wet descents in the mountains for all we know.
I like the fact that the GC is an overall test of skill. Cobbles can be part of that. Not every year but certainly some.0 -
I have mixed feelings on this. I appreciate the spectacle, but I think DDraver makes a good point about the swarming bunch with lightweight climbers bouncing about.
I think that all terrains should be used to test riders in a grand tour, but I also appreciate that the nature of a cobbled lane is that it's a narrow, tiny lane usually (except Lange Munte from Omloop, which is an N road and decently wide, and Holleweg which is also an N road, wide but the worst surface about).
Cobble chat!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
I don't buy that. A few years ago Andy Schleck managed to hitch a ride with Spartacus and come through a cobbled stage ok. These guys have known for months that cobbles were in. Go and practice.
Reductio ad absurdum aware but remember how Wiggins was criticized for not riding enough cobbled stages before P-R? The reality is that you can't recreate a panicked cobbled stage within a big bunch in training. Ok you can put the tour team into the cobbled races but teams are trying to win them outright! it would ve been ridiculous to put Nico Roche, Wout Poels, Froome, Porte etc into G-W or the Ronde as Sky (insert any teams and rider combination here) were trying to win those for Gee or YogiSomething can happen on any stage as we have just seen. There could be wet descents in the mountains for all we know.
Yes, but cobbles are put in to encourage misfortune. The weather cannot be predicted. It was just as unpredictable that saturday would be a scorcher as it was that there would be a storm on SundayI like the fact that the GC is an overall test of skill. Cobbles can be part of that. Not every year but certainly some.
Well true, but the bummer is that it often isnt skill, it's the skill (or not) of the guy that happens to be in front of you. One can stay close to the front as much as possible but as we saw last year and yesterday, that still doesnt guarantee safetyWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Cobbles are tricky.
I'm beginning to think Nibs was a lot better last year.
In which case, cobbles present a different prospect.
They get exponentially difficult as you get slower. You need to stay above the 37-40kph mark and you can really fly over that, but as soon as you can't quite hold that and you drop to 35kph, it gets so much more difficult and so the vicious cycle continues and you are dropped.
Don't see him being able to do what he did last year again.
Cheers for the explanation.0 -
Watch out at 34.5km to go, according to Dan Lloyd
https://twitter.com/daniellloyd1/status/6183424318645288960 -
I like the cobbles, they make things interesting but definitely not every year as they'd lose their novelty. It would be good for example to see a long TT back in the tour next year either early on or towards the end. That's a different challenge again and riders should be tested in every way.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643326#p19643326]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:see 364 days ago...
What happened 364 days ago that gives you so much concern over cobbles?
Bertie (and I'm no fan of his) and the other GC contenders lost time, through no fault of their own or not becasue they had a bad day etc, which meant the rest of the the race was a snooze fest. All credit to Nibali but we sacrificed a 3 week long tantric sex session for a quick one off the wrist...
That's not what happened though, is it?Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Can we not rehash the "cobbles have no place in a GT" arguments from last year? Please? I think everyone made their feelings abundantly clear back then and I doubt anything significant has changed.0
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Good day for team my man with Cavendish, Stybar, Degenkolb and Vanmarke fighting it out for the stage and Tony Martin going for yellow.
No mention of Kristoff. Surely he's in with a good shout, especially if it comes down to a sprint.
More I think about it the less I think Sep will be able to do it.
Your man Kristoff is definitely in with a shout, but like most of my men form is somewhat unknown at the moment.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19643441#p19643441]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:I have mixed feelings on this. I appreciate the spectacle, but I think DDraver makes a good point about the swarming bunch with lightweight climbers bouncing about.
I think that all terrains should be used to test riders in a grand tour, but I also appreciate that the nature of a cobbled lane is that it's a narrow, tiny lane usually (except Lange Munte from Omloop, which is an N road and decently wide, and Holleweg which is also an N road, wide but the worst surface about).
Cobble chat!
the entrance to secteur 6 is pretty trim
one thing struck me is how different it would be if the cobbled stage was much later in the race. less guys fighting for position if this was week 2 or even 3...imagine that"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
erm....yes
No it isn't. The GC was a snoozefest because two of the main favourites crashed out. Nothing to do with the time losses on that stage. in fact, it probably would have been a hell of a fight.
I really don't want this thread to descend into the furore of last year, but that comment was revisionist piffle.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0
