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briantrumpet

I think this is a reasonable summary of Labour's prospects, in the aftermath of the by-elections...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/23/labour-stumble-uxbridge-shows-keir-starmer-how-to-put-party-on-firmer-footing

One moral here is that the way to sell environmentally friendly policies to voters is with carrots, not sticks. It was a blunder to fight that byelection without a plan to make the transition to cleaner vehicles affordable for voters struggling with the cost of living crisis. “With hindsight, we should have talked about a more generous car scrappage scheme,” says one shadow cabinet member. Another warning is that the Tories still have some life in them. They may look exhausted as a government, but they won’t relinquish power without a vicious fight and have some ruthless tricks up their sleeves when it comes to campaigning.

Labour needs to fully absorb this lesson before it is plunged into the intense heat of a general election campaign. Every policy that it plans to put before the electorate ought to be examined for potential vulnerabilities and thoroughly fireproofed against assault. Lines of defence need to be clear and firm because, as Uxbridge illustrated, Labour won’t see off Tory attacks with equivocations and ambiguity.

There’s another cause for some Labour disquiet. We know that public alienation from the Conservatives runs deep, but there is still not that much enthusiasm for Sir Keir’s party. In Selby, the Tory vote collapsed by more than 21,000. The Labour vote only rose by less than 3,000. It has become a cliche to say that Sir Keir has yet to “seal the deal” with Britain, but that doesn’t stop it being true.

This will add spice to the argument about where the party should strike the balance between reassuring voters that it can be trusted with government and enthusing them with its plans for power. A wrong answer is to say that Labour should try to be exciting by throwing caution to the winds. Sir Keir won’t win office if a lot of voters think his party is a risky proposition. An equally wrong answer is to say that Labour should have as few distinctive policies as possible for fear of exposing itself to Tory attack. Voters need to believe Labour will be different if they are to be persuaded that their families and their country will be better off for electing a Starmer government. Between here and election day, Labour has to convince people that it will be both a responsible government and one that delivers change. It is a tricky balancing act, but if you can’t ride two horses at once, you shouldn’t be in the circus.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Did a bit of Leftie bashing for Stevo today. One of the local MPs and former Shadow Home Secretary did the 10k I ran but I beat him by 20 minutes.

Nick Thomas-Symonds? Quick Google shows he's a bit of a chubster so no surprise there.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

I think this is a reasonable summary of Labour's prospects, in the aftermath of the by-elections...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/23/labour-stumble-uxbridge-shows-keir-starmer-how-to-put-party-on-firmer-footing

One moral here is that the way to sell environmentally friendly policies to voters is with carrots, not sticks.

Try telling that bit about carrots not sticks to a few people on here...

Jezyboy

Honestly panicking about not winning Uxbridge strikes me as faintly ridiculous. This is a constituency (or rather it's predecessor was one) where even Tony Blair didn't make much of a dent in the popularity of the conservatives.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Did a bit of Leftie bashing for Stevo today. One of the local MPs and former Shadow Home Secretary did the 10k I ran but I beat him by 20 minutes.

Nick Thomas-Symonds? Quick Google shows he's a bit of a chubster so no surprise there.

Don’t go bursting my bubble. He’s younger than me too.

Pross

Jezyboy said:

Honestly panicking about not winning Uxbridge strikes me as faintly ridiculous. This is a constituency (or rather it's predecessor was one) where even Tony Blair didn't make much of a dent in the popularity of the conservatives.

And it went to a recount with even the winning candidate admitting he’d only won due to a local issue and not something that was national policy. It was a huge vote swing.

kingstongraham

If Labour had got 500 more votes, they'd probably claim that he'd won because he was anti ulez.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

If Labour had got 500 more votes, they'd probably claim that he'd won because he was anti ulez.

Whatever. A win's a win and I can see the green issue being a big feature in the GE, now that we have spotted the lefties' and centre lefties' electoral achilles heel.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

If Labour had got 500 more votes, they'd probably claim that he'd won because he was anti ulez.

Whatever. A win's a win and I can see the green issue being a big feature in the GE, now that we have spotted the lefties' and centre lefties' electoral achilles heel.

Are you saying green issues are bad and we shouldn’t do them then?

kingstongraham

Oh please, please make the Tories the "climate change isn't a problem" party because of a win partially due to a policy that isn't to do with climate change.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

If Labour had got 500 more votes, they'd probably claim that he'd won because he was anti ulez.

Whatever. A win's a win and I can see the green issue being a big feature in the GE, now that we have spotted the lefties' and centre lefties' electoral achilles heel.

Are you saying green issues are bad and we shouldn’t do them then?

I'm saying that there are ways of beating the lefties in quite a few constituencies.

Stevo_666

For those of who think I am against all forms of strike action, here's a strike I can get right behind
https://camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/parking-wardens-are-the-latest-workers-to-strike-in-pay-dispute

kingstongraham

Surprised to hear you think they deserve a large pay rise, but fair enough.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Surprised to hear you think they deserve a large pay rise, but fair enough.

Just the strike bit, not the pay rise bit.

Stevo_666

Uh oh, for those of you who live in London...
https://standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-mayor-london-len-mccluskey-iain-dale-labour-b1098875.html

Seems somehow appropriate that he said this at the Edinburgh fringe festival stood next to Len McCluskey.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

Uh oh, for those of you who live in London...
https://standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-mayor-london-len-mccluskey-iain-dale-labour-b1098875.html

Seems somehow appropriate that he said this at the Edinburgh fringe festival stood next to Len McCluskey.

😆

Will he beat Laurence Fox or Count Binface? Important questions!

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Uh oh, for those of you who live in London...
https://standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-mayor-london-len-mccluskey-iain-dale-labour-b1098875.html

Seems somehow appropriate that he said this at the Edinburgh fringe festival stood next to Len McCluskey.

😆

Will he beat Laurence Fox or Count Binface? Important questions!

Place your bets now, Banzai style

That said, when I started this thread there were people I shall not name (but whose name rhymes with Chick Racey) who confidently predicted that Jezza would never win the Labour leadership

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Uh oh, for those of you who live in London...
https://standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-mayor-london-len-mccluskey-iain-dale-labour-b1098875.html

Seems somehow appropriate that he said this at the Edinburgh fringe festival stood next to Len McCluskey.

😆

Will he beat Laurence Fox or Count Binface? Important questions!

Place your bets now, Banzai style

That said, when I started this thread there were people I shall not name (but whose name rhymes with Chick Racey) who confidently predicted that Jezza would never win the Labour leadership

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

Uh oh, for those of you who live in London...
https://standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-mayor-london-len-mccluskey-iain-dale-labour-b1098875.html

Seems somehow appropriate that he said this at the Edinburgh fringe festival stood next to Len McCluskey.

😆

Will he beat Laurence Fox or Count Binface? Important questions!

Place your bets now, Banzai style

That said, when I started this thread there were people I shall not name (but whose name rhymes with Chick Racey) who confidently predicted that Jezza would never win the Labour leadership

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

You going to make a prediction on this one? I'll stick my neck out and say that he won't win...

That said, neither of us live in London so the impact on us even if he does get it should be pretty limited.

ddraver

Will he beat his brother...?

Stevo_666

He could stand as the Monster Raving Looney candidate, seems quite appropriate.

Stevo_666

And talking of Monster Raving Loonies, any thoughts on Diane Abbott's recent deleted tweet?
https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-migrants-sea-tweet-b2390439.html

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

And talking of Monster Raving Loonies, any thoughts on Diane Abbott's recent deleted tweet?
https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-migrants-sea-tweet-b2390439.html

She has a way with words. Maybe you think she should be suspended from the Labour party?

rick_chasey

Wasn’t it in reference to comments from a Tory MP who said the asylum seekers on the boat should go back to France?

rick_chasey

Yes it was

https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-lee-andersons-f-off-back-to-france-comment-shows-govt-trying-to-distract-from-failings-says-labours-yvette-cooper-12936590

Shame you only spotted the second inappropriate comment eh?

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

Wasn’t it in reference to comments from a Tory MP who said the asylum seekers on the boat should go back to France?

Quite clearly was. Still, a silly thing to say and bound to wind the snowflakes on the right up.

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

rick_chasey said:

Wasn’t it in reference to comments from a Tory MP who said the asylum seekers on the boat should go back to France?

Quite clearly was. Still, a silly thing to say and bound to wind the snowflakes on the right up.

There are things People Like Us can say on social media, with or without relative anonymity, that politicians really ought not to. One of those things is, erm, black humour, and especially when an event is in the headlines, and people in the public eye are expected to express regret or say nothing at all. Using recent tragedy to score political points is risky enough at the best of times, but Abbott underlined how inept she is by thinking that her quip was appropriate.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Yes it was

https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-lee-andersons-f-off-back-to-france-comment-shows-govt-trying-to-distract-from-failings-says-labours-yvette-cooper-12936590

Shame you only spotted the second inappropriate comment eh?

Oh I spotted the Lee Anderson comment. Salty language but if they're not happy with the standard of their accommodation they are free to go. Fair enough.

Funny how Abbott deleted her tweet quite quickly don't you think?

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Yes it was

https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-lee-andersons-f-off-back-to-france-comment-shows-govt-trying-to-distract-from-failings-says-labours-yvette-cooper-12936590

Shame you only spotted the second inappropriate comment eh?

Oh I spotted the Lee Anderson comment. Salty language but if they're not happy with the standard of their accommodation they are free to go. Fair enough.

Funny how Abbott deleted her tweet quite quickly don't you think?

Eh? It was stupid, so she deleted it... at least she had enough sense for that (or someone told her to, if she didn't have enough sense).

Have you ever sent/posted anything you've regretted? I sure have.

A friend of mine once thought he had commented to me, in reply to some garbled English, "Are all Americans illiterate?" I pinged back "I hope you didn't 'Reply to All' ", to which he quickly replied "Oh fvck!"

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Yes it was

https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-lee-andersons-f-off-back-to-france-comment-shows-govt-trying-to-distract-from-failings-says-labours-yvette-cooper-12936590

Shame you only spotted the second inappropriate comment eh?

Oh I spotted the Lee Anderson comment. Salty language but if they're not happy with the standard of their accommodation they are free to go. Fair enough.

Funny how Abbott deleted her tweet quite quickly don't you think?

Eh? It was stupid, so she deleted it... at least she had enough sense for that (or someone told her to, if she didn't have enough sense).

Have you ever sent/posted anything you've regretted? I sure have.

A friend of mine once thought he had commented to me, in reply to some garbled English, "Are all Americans illiterate?" I pinged back "I hope you didn't 'Reply to All' ", to which he quickly replied "Oh fvck!"

I'm guessing that somebody had to tell that it was a really stupid thing to post, even if it was some sort of response to Lee Anderson.