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Are you saying Ukraine moving to the 'West played no part in Putins thinking? very short out of context sentences, published in the right wing press...... evidence?
As much as you don't like Unions etc, the Tories taking Putin 's cash to fund their party & allowing London to become Londongrad/money laundering capitol of Europe played a far bigger part than Mick Lynch ever has... Tories need to be kept on short leashes.
Thankfully, looks like the electorate are starting to wake up to these Con Con's0 -
Utter nonsense. Putin wants Ukraine either part of Russia or as a puppet. He’s said as much. He’s no better than Hitler and blaming Ukraine is like blaming the wife for daring to say no to the violent wife beater.AndyG785 said:Are you saying Ukraine moving to the 'West played no part in Putins thinking? very short out of context sentences, published in the right wing press...... evidence?
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Beat me to it.rick_chasey said:
Utter nonsense. Putin wants Ukraine either part of Russia or as a puppet. He’s said as much. He’s no better than Hitler and blaming Ukraine is like blaming the wife for daring to say no to the violent wife beater.AndyG785 said:Are you saying Ukraine moving to the 'West played no part in Putins thinking? very short out of context sentences, published in the right wing press...... evidence?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Someone has managed to unite Rick and Stevo. Maybe they should now go to sort out the Russia / Ukraine war!0
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An unfortunate counterpoint to the argument (to which I agree) is that, although we're all enjoying giving zee germans a good kicking at the moment, would them allowing less russian integration with the west have hastened or hindered Putin's seemingly inevitable attempt to re-take Ukraine.
Whether or not you think Putin was always going to attempt this is, I guess, the question there...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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So in hindsight I think it's quite clear Putin was gonna do this regardless. Timing and approach is obviously context specific, but it's fair to say Merkel's approach, which was to put an arm around Russia and make them a friend rather than an enemy was a big miscalculation as he was never remotely interested.ddraver said:An unfortunate counterpoint to the argument (to which I agree) is that, although we're all enjoying giving zee germans a good kicking at the moment, would them allowing less russian integration with the west have hastened or hindered Putin's seemingly inevitable attempt to re-take Ukraine.
Whether or not you think Putin was always going to attempt this is, I guess, the question there...
Germany has a trickier history with Russia in that vast swathes of it was essentially occupied by Russians for 70 odd years, so the connections are a lot deeper. Schroeder's reputation is in absolute tatters because of his refusal to sever that link.0 -
Hi, I'm trying to find ignorance so I can get back to bliss. Give me a shout if you see it.
Cheers.0 -
This might be mildly amusing however if you post it in every thread it’s tedious.focuszing723 said:Hi, I'm trying to find ignorance so I can get back to bliss. Give me a shout if you see it.
Cheers.0 -
Do labour MPs not understand if they want to win they will have to win over people who voted Tory?
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I'm not sure that because you once voted for X, you are X forever more.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
There was a time in Putin's presidency when he did appear to be looking to closer ties with the West. It's reasonable to argue - or at least some reasonable people do - that he felt let down especially by the USA and that this new cold war wasn't inevitable. I'm not saying they are right but it's not an argument confined to the fringes. If you listen to the radio 4 series on Putin for example this is very much the impression it gives.
So I think it depends on the timescale you are looking at. In the last decade or so his intentions have been that Ukraine should not be allowed to be a pro Western independent state. Prior to that it's less clear.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
This is the root of the problem.DeVlaeminck said:There was a time in Putin's presidency when he did appear to be looking to closer ties with the West. It's reasonable to argue - or at least some reasonable people do - that he felt let down especially by the USA and that this new cold war wasn't inevitable. I'm not saying they are right but it's not an argument confined to the fringes. If you listen to the radio 4 series on Putin for example this is very much the impression it gives.
So I think it depends on the timescale you are looking at. In the last decade or so his intentions have been that Ukraine should not be allowed to be a pro Western independent state. Prior to that it's less clear.
It is not his place to dictate to Ukraine what they should, or shouldn't do.
PS - Wrong thread?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Probably not, and let's keep it like that. New Old Labour, New Old Danger.rick_chasey said:Do labour MPs not understand if they want to win they will have to win over people who voted Tory?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Probably not, and let's keep it like that. New Old Labour, New Old Danger.rick_chasey said:Do labour MPs not understand if they want to win they will have to win over people who voted Tory?
More dangerous than the current Tories, eh?
One can only hope that Truss is less calamitous than Johnson's car-crash effort. Johnson was so bad, I'd almost be persuaded that Corbyn might have been a safer pair of hands.0 -
Probably. But we really don't want to find out. Leftiebollox always fails, but it never dies, as they saybriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Probably not, and let's keep it like that. New Old Labour, New Old Danger.rick_chasey said:Do labour MPs not understand if they want to win they will have to win over people who voted Tory?
More dangerous than the current Tories, eh?
One can only hope that Truss is less calamitous than Johnson's car-crash effort. Johnson was so bad, I'd almost be persuaded that Corbyn might have been a safer pair of hands.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Probably. But we really don't want to find out. Leftiebollox always fails, but it never dies, as they saybriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Probably not, and let's keep it like that. New Old Labour, New Old Danger.rick_chasey said:Do labour MPs not understand if they want to win they will have to win over people who voted Tory?
More dangerous than the current Tories, eh?
One can only hope that Truss is less calamitous than Johnson's car-crash effort. Johnson was so bad, I'd almost be persuaded that Corbyn might have been a safer pair of hands.
I'd be interested to know how you think they'd be more dangerous.
Also, your "probably" is quite an admission.0 -
If he'd got his energy policies going, probably would have been in a better position than we are now.
Also, we could have just bought it cheap from Russia under Corbyn, so win/win on the energy front.0 -
All parties fail. The only question is how many years will it take? The issue I have is that it’s always too long.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Lol. I remember defending the decision to make him labour leader by suggesting he’d shift the centre leftwards.kingstongraham said:
Also, we could have just bought it cheap from Russia under Corbyn, so win/win on the energy front.
What a misjudgment. Utter sh!t. The Stop The War lot are disgusting.0 -
Nothing more than an admission that we can't predict the future.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Probably. But we really don't want to find out. Leftiebollox always fails, but it never dies, as they saybriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Probably not, and let's keep it like that. New Old Labour, New Old Danger.rick_chasey said:Do labour MPs not understand if they want to win they will have to win over people who voted Tory?
More dangerous than the current Tories, eh?
One can only hope that Truss is less calamitous than Johnson's car-crash effort. Johnson was so bad, I'd almost be persuaded that Corbyn might have been a safer pair of hands.
I'd be interested to know how you think they'd be more dangerous.
Also, your "probably" is quite an admission."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I know you do not agree but from an economics standpoint he dragged the centre far far to the left.rick_chasey said:
Lol. I remember defending the decision to make him labour leader by suggesting he’d shift the centre leftwards.kingstongraham said:
Also, we could have just bought it cheap from Russia under Corbyn, so win/win on the energy front.
What a misjudgment. Utter sh!t. The Stop The War lot are disgusting.
If this new found desire for the state to stop anything bad happening to anybody is not the very definition of leftiebollox then I do not know what is.
The money editor of the Times wrote an article saying that the next crisis will be rising mortgages and that people needed to be protected from rate rises.1 -
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The dangers of privatisation
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/labour-mp-blames-rail-delay-privatisation-whilst-sitting-publicly/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's almost like infrastructure in the UK is getting increasingly f*cked.
At the moment there are now 2 long term problems on the line i usually take. One took the entire line down for a day, the other has been going on for 5 weeks now.
Virgin lost the LNER franchise, like every other franchise on that line, because the service was appalling.
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-train-cancellations-highest-level-record-1869800
Yesterday: UK train cancellations reach highest level on recordLondon North Eastern Railway (11.0 per cent), East Midlands Railway (5.5 per cent) and Grand Central (12.0 per cent) also had their poorest reliability over the same four-week period.1 in 10!!!
Govia Thameslink Railway – which consists of Southern, Thameslink, Great Northern and Gatwick Express services – recorded its second-worst cancellations score of 11.1 per cent.
Those figures are not the figures of a well functioning system.
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Disappointed he didn't thank Ms Sultana for raisin the issue.Stevo_666 said:The dangers of privatisation
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/labour-mp-blames-rail-delay-privatisation-whilst-sitting-publicly/2 -
Wrt UK infrastructure, I feel we are becoming a high tax low salary version of America...0
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What a bunch of selfish t**ts, eh - ruining peoples days trying to get more money for themselves.rick_chasey said:More strikes tbf.
That’s blown up my daughter’s birthday party for the family."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nothing to see here.Stevo_666 said:
No surprise that Greece ran into trouble if they always spent more than they earned. Public debt is essence is just a running total of your net deficits (of revenues vs spending) in each year. The Greeks ran up a very large debt pile and then the market turned against them.rjsterry said:Here's the equivalent graph for Greece.
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