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Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
Ben
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What the Jewish community is concerned about is having a PM who actively dislikes them (or seems to) and the future consequences of that.ben6899 said:
Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
You may feel they're being silly but would you dismiss such fears as easily if they were being voiced by the west indian or asian community?
Also, it's wrong to dismiss this as Daily Mail scaremongering. When Labour MPs are quitting the party over this precise issue, I'd suggest there's more foundation to it than that.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
Guess what, man who believes in jewish conspiracy theories now believes a conspiracy for the tories to sell off the entirety of the NHS.0
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I didn't say they were being silly, I said they were being fed lies in a bid to influence political outcomes. And yes, I would.longshot said:
What the Jewish community is concerned about is having a PM who actively dislikes them (or seems to) and the future consequences of that.ben6899 said:
Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
You may feel they're being silly but would you dismiss such fears as easily if they were being voiced by the west indian or asian community?
Also, it's wrong to dismiss this as Daily Mail scaremongering. When Labour MPs are quitting the party over this precise issue, I'd suggest there's more foundation to it than that.
Ben
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So you believe that Labour's own MPs are quitting based on lies told to them by the Daily Mail rather than their own experiences? Really?ben6899 said:
I didn't say they were being silly, I said they were being fed lies in a bid to influence political outcomes. And yes, I would.longshot said:
What the Jewish community is concerned about is having a PM who actively dislikes them (or seems to) and the future consequences of that.ben6899 said:
Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
You may feel they're being silly but would you dismiss such fears as easily if they were being voiced by the west indian or asian community?
Also, it's wrong to dismiss this as Daily Mail scaremongering. When Labour MPs are quitting the party over this precise issue, I'd suggest there's more foundation to it than that.You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
No, I think there has been an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. And islamophobia. And homophobia. And all in between. Just like in the Tory Party and the Lib Dems (and of course the Brexit Party, but I believe they openly advertise it!).longshot said:
So you believe that Labour's own MPs are quitting based on lies told to them by the Daily Mail rather than their own experiences? Really?ben6899 said:
I didn't say they were being silly, I said they were being fed lies in a bid to influence political outcomes. And yes, I would.longshot said:
What the Jewish community is concerned about is having a PM who actively dislikes them (or seems to) and the future consequences of that.ben6899 said:
Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
You may feel they're being silly but would you dismiss such fears as easily if they were being voiced by the west indian or asian community?
Also, it's wrong to dismiss this as Daily Mail scaremongering. When Labour MPs are quitting the party over this precise issue, I'd suggest there's more foundation to it than that.
And it's being dealt with to varying degrees of success.
I don't think that it lies.
I do believe that when communities - in this case, Jewish - are fed information that kosher slaughter will be banned and the current community security arrangements will have a line drawn under them... I believe that is all lies. Generated by someone, somewhere in order to jump on the Corbyn hates the Jews bandwagon.
Do you disagree?
Ben
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No. I don't. To clarify, the Jewish people that I work with haven't mentioned the kosher ban or anything similar - I'd give them credit that they're too smart to fall for that. They are however still concerned about Corbyn.ben6899 said:
No, I think there has been an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. And islamophobia. And homophobia. And all in between. Just like in the Tory Party and the Lib Dems (and of course the Brexit Party, but I believe they openly advertise it!).longshot said:
So you believe that Labour's own MPs are quitting based on lies told to them by the Daily Mail rather than their own experiences? Really?ben6899 said:
I didn't say they were being silly, I said they were being fed lies in a bid to influence political outcomes. And yes, I would.longshot said:
What the Jewish community is concerned about is having a PM who actively dislikes them (or seems to) and the future consequences of that.ben6899 said:
Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
You may feel they're being silly but would you dismiss such fears as easily if they were being voiced by the west indian or asian community?
Also, it's wrong to dismiss this as Daily Mail scaremongering. When Labour MPs are quitting the party over this precise issue, I'd suggest there's more foundation to it than that.
And it's being dealt with to varying degrees of success.
I don't think that it lies.
I do believe that when communities - in this case, Jewish - are fed information that kosher slaughter will be banned and the current community security arrangements will have a line drawn under them... I believe that is all lies. Generated by someone, somewhere in order to jump on the Corbyn hates the Jews bandwagon.
Do you disagree?You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
Reassuring - maybe they can speak with the prominent bloke who wrote that piece for the Guardian!longshot said:
No. I don't. To clarify, the Jewish people that I work with haven't mentioned the kosher ban or anything similar - I'd give them credit that they're too smart to fall for that. They are however still concerned about Corbyn.ben6899 said:
No, I think there has been an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. And islamophobia. And homophobia. And all in between. Just like in the Tory Party and the Lib Dems (and of course the Brexit Party, but I believe they openly advertise it!).longshot said:
So you believe that Labour's own MPs are quitting based on lies told to them by the Daily Mail rather than their own experiences? Really?ben6899 said:
I didn't say they were being silly, I said they were being fed lies in a bid to influence political outcomes. And yes, I would.longshot said:
What the Jewish community is concerned about is having a PM who actively dislikes them (or seems to) and the future consequences of that.ben6899 said:
Although it's not what everyone is worried about.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
You may feel they're being silly but would you dismiss such fears as easily if they were being voiced by the west indian or asian community?
Also, it's wrong to dismiss this as Daily Mail scaremongering. When Labour MPs are quitting the party over this precise issue, I'd suggest there's more foundation to it than that.
And it's being dealt with to varying degrees of success.
I don't think that it lies.
I do believe that when communities - in this case, Jewish - are fed information that kosher slaughter will be banned and the current community security arrangements will have a line drawn under them... I believe that is all lies. Generated by someone, somewhere in order to jump on the Corbyn hates the Jews bandwagon.
Do you disagree?
And I respect that. Genuine intrigue - what do they worry he'll do?Ben
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I disagree that labour are 'dealing' with it, unless by that you mean trying to brush it under the carpet.
I believe the senior leadership team believe in some "international capitalist" conspiracy theories that are staple anti-semitic tropes.
Hating 'finance' and anti-semitism often go hand in glove.0 -
I did say to varying degrees of success.rick_chasey said:I disagree that labour are 'dealing' with it, unless by that you mean trying to brush it under the carpet.
I believe the senior leadership team believe in some "international capitalist" conspiracy theories that are staple anti-semitic tropes.
Hating 'finance' and anti-semitism often go hand in glove.
Ben
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rick_chasey said:
I disagree that labour are 'dealing' with it, unless by that you mean trying to brush it under the carpet.
I believe the senior leadership team believe in some "international capitalist" conspiracy theories that are staple anti-semitic tropes.
Hating 'finance' and anti-semitism often go hand in glove.
Spot on.
Last night's interview was just the most recent of many, many opportunities that Corbyn has had to apologise for the impact this anti-semitic environment has had on many Jewish members of the party he leads, and he didn't take it. He is either unable or unwilling to stamp it out - both are shocking traits in someone wanting to be the political leader of our country.0 -
Because he believes capitalism is bad, top of the capitalist tree are banks, banks are controlled by the jews and top of the banking tree are the Rothschilds.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
Andrew Neill knew exactly what question to ask him and how to frame it. Corbyn is too principled to just tell the obvious lie and make it go away which indicates how deeply he feels about the subject.0 -
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That's a completely different type of competition i.e. between enterprises within a particular market, as opposed to between countries for corporate tax revenues. Does that help you to understand it better?rick_chasey said:
You'd be more convincing if you were arguing for encouraging competition by assisting start ups specifically, especially in industries which are oligpolistic.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the home grown ones dont need attracting here (although the more successful ones should not be scared off or disincentivised). However attracting internationally mobile capital is important - similar to the situation where most UK trade is domestic, but nobody is saying that overseas trade doesnt matter.rjsterry said:
To read some of your posts you'd think the only investors in new or growing businesses are from outside the UK. Obviously they are part of it, but a guy starting up a small business with his life savings and a small bank loan secured on his house is also an entrepreneur.Stevo_666 said:
What definition was that?rjsterry said:
It was more a comment on Stevo's apparently rather narrow definition of entrepreneur.surrey_commuter said:
A lot of the top entrepreneurs in the USA are immigrants or 2nd generation. Their previously open economy has often been stated as one of the reasons behind it's long period of economic out-performancerjsterry said:
Most entrepreneurs already live here. They don't need to be attracted from anywhere. Maybe we should prioritise them.Stevo_666 said:
So why bother? In the end it was an act of political spite as KG mentioned.rjsterry said:So if I have that right: raising it didn't change receipts beyond background variation and lowering the rate only created one bumper year because of one-off deferrals from the previous year. Hmm.
Longer term we need to stay competitive in attracting investment and entrepreneurs.
I also include the internationally mobile corporate capital here rather than your rather narrow definition I have commented on this point before including what are the motivations and how there is a choice in many cases, hence the reality of tax competition.
Unfortunately what you propose ends up benefiting big business much more than their smaller rivals (as they have the economies of scale to maximise their position) and ends up reducing competition."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
FTFY.rick_chasey said:
After the proposed Tory brexit I'd like to think that the hole in the finances will be bigger than what labour are proposing sans Brexit #justsaying.Stevo_666 said:
Just trying to see what they say they will raise compared with what they say they will spend.surrey_commuter said:
You will have to expand on that as I really don’t see the relevanceStevo_666 said:
Compared to how much planned spending?surrey_commuter said:Saw something recently that Labour’s tax plans will raise £6bn and that is assuming behavioural changes reducing it from a potential £11bn.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
surrey_commuter said:
Because he believes capitalism is bad, top of the capitalist tree are banks, banks are controlled by the jews and top of the banking tree are the Rothschilds.rick_chasey said:The bigger issue is why Corbyn loves the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, tbh.
Andrew Neill knew exactly what question to ask him and how to frame it. Corbyn is too principled to just tell the obvious lie and make it go away which indicates how deeply he feels about the subject.
Too principled to not tell the obvious lie, but not principled enough to admit his true beliefs.0 -
You don’t think they will?Stevo_666 said:
FTFY.rick_chasey said:
After the proposed Tory brexit I'd like to think that the hole in the finances will be bigger than what labour are proposing sans Brexit #justsaying.Stevo_666 said:
Just trying to see what they say they will raise compared with what they say they will spend.surrey_commuter said:
You will have to expand on that as I really don’t see the relevanceStevo_666 said:
Compared to how much planned spending?surrey_commuter said:Saw something recently that Labour’s tax plans will raise £6bn and that is assuming behavioural changes reducing it from a potential £11bn.
Oh dear0 -
Which one benefits the consumer? Hmm?Stevo_666 said:
That's a completely different type of competition i.e. between enterprises within a particular market, as opposed to between countries for corporate tax revenues. Does that help you to understand it better?rick_chasey said:
You'd be more convincing if you were arguing for encouraging competition by assisting start ups specifically, especially in industries which are oligpolistic.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the home grown ones dont need attracting here (although the more successful ones should not be scared off or disincentivised). However attracting internationally mobile capital is important - similar to the situation where most UK trade is domestic, but nobody is saying that overseas trade doesnt matter.rjsterry said:
To read some of your posts you'd think the only investors in new or growing businesses are from outside the UK. Obviously they are part of it, but a guy starting up a small business with his life savings and a small bank loan secured on his house is also an entrepreneur.Stevo_666 said:
What definition was that?rjsterry said:
It was more a comment on Stevo's apparently rather narrow definition of entrepreneur.surrey_commuter said:
A lot of the top entrepreneurs in the USA are immigrants or 2nd generation. Their previously open economy has often been stated as one of the reasons behind it's long period of economic out-performancerjsterry said:
Most entrepreneurs already live here. They don't need to be attracted from anywhere. Maybe we should prioritise them.Stevo_666 said:
So why bother? In the end it was an act of political spite as KG mentioned.rjsterry said:So if I have that right: raising it didn't change receipts beyond background variation and lowering the rate only created one bumper year because of one-off deferrals from the previous year. Hmm.
Longer term we need to stay competitive in attracting investment and entrepreneurs.
I also include the internationally mobile corporate capital here rather than your rather narrow definition I have commented on this point before including what are the motivations and how there is a choice in many cases, hence the reality of tax competition.
Unfortunately what you propose ends up benefiting big business much more than their smaller rivals (as they have the economies of scale to maximise their position) and ends up reducing competition.0 -
What makes you think you're right?rick_chasey said:
You don’t think they will?Stevo_666 said:
FTFY.rick_chasey said:
After the proposed Tory brexit I'd like to think that the hole in the finances will be bigger than what labour are proposing sans Brexit #justsaying.Stevo_666 said:
Just trying to see what they say they will raise compared with what they say they will spend.surrey_commuter said:
You will have to expand on that as I really don’t see the relevanceStevo_666 said:
Compared to how much planned spending?surrey_commuter said:Saw something recently that Labour’s tax plans will raise £6bn and that is assuming behavioural changes reducing it from a potential £11bn.
Oh dear"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stop changing the subject. Which was tax competition.rick_chasey said:
Which one benefits the consumer? Hmm?Stevo_666 said:
That's a completely different type of competition i.e. between enterprises within a particular market, as opposed to between countries for corporate tax revenues. Does that help you to understand it better?rick_chasey said:
You'd be more convincing if you were arguing for encouraging competition by assisting start ups specifically, especially in industries which are oligpolistic.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the home grown ones dont need attracting here (although the more successful ones should not be scared off or disincentivised). However attracting internationally mobile capital is important - similar to the situation where most UK trade is domestic, but nobody is saying that overseas trade doesnt matter.rjsterry said:
To read some of your posts you'd think the only investors in new or growing businesses are from outside the UK. Obviously they are part of it, but a guy starting up a small business with his life savings and a small bank loan secured on his house is also an entrepreneur.Stevo_666 said:
What definition was that?rjsterry said:
It was more a comment on Stevo's apparently rather narrow definition of entrepreneur.surrey_commuter said:
A lot of the top entrepreneurs in the USA are immigrants or 2nd generation. Their previously open economy has often been stated as one of the reasons behind it's long period of economic out-performancerjsterry said:
Most entrepreneurs already live here. They don't need to be attracted from anywhere. Maybe we should prioritise them.Stevo_666 said:
So why bother? In the end it was an act of political spite as KG mentioned.rjsterry said:So if I have that right: raising it didn't change receipts beyond background variation and lowering the rate only created one bumper year because of one-off deferrals from the previous year. Hmm.
Longer term we need to stay competitive in attracting investment and entrepreneurs.
I also include the internationally mobile corporate capital here rather than your rather narrow definition I have commented on this point before including what are the motivations and how there is a choice in many cases, hence the reality of tax competition.
Unfortunately what you propose ends up benefiting big business much more than their smaller rivals (as they have the economies of scale to maximise their position) and ends up reducing competition."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The argument that tax competition is only one factor to consider when setting rates.Stevo_666 said:
Stop changing the subject. Which was tax competition.rick_chasey said:
Which one benefits the consumer? Hmm?Stevo_666 said:
That's a completely different type of competition i.e. between enterprises within a particular market, as opposed to between countries for corporate tax revenues. Does that help you to understand it better?rick_chasey said:
You'd be more convincing if you were arguing for encouraging competition by assisting start ups specifically, especially in industries which are oligpolistic.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the home grown ones dont need attracting here (although the more successful ones should not be scared off or disincentivised). However attracting internationally mobile capital is important - similar to the situation where most UK trade is domestic, but nobody is saying that overseas trade doesnt matter.rjsterry said:
To read some of your posts you'd think the only investors in new or growing businesses are from outside the UK. Obviously they are part of it, but a guy starting up a small business with his life savings and a small bank loan secured on his house is also an entrepreneur.Stevo_666 said:
What definition was that?rjsterry said:
It was more a comment on Stevo's apparently rather narrow definition of entrepreneur.surrey_commuter said:
A lot of the top entrepreneurs in the USA are immigrants or 2nd generation. Their previously open economy has often been stated as one of the reasons behind it's long period of economic out-performancerjsterry said:
Most entrepreneurs already live here. They don't need to be attracted from anywhere. Maybe we should prioritise them.Stevo_666 said:
So why bother? In the end it was an act of political spite as KG mentioned.rjsterry said:So if I have that right: raising it didn't change receipts beyond background variation and lowering the rate only created one bumper year because of one-off deferrals from the previous year. Hmm.
Longer term we need to stay competitive in attracting investment and entrepreneurs.
I also include the internationally mobile corporate capital here rather than your rather narrow definition I have commented on this point before including what are the motivations and how there is a choice in many cases, hence the reality of tax competition.
Unfortunately what you propose ends up benefiting big business much more than their smaller rivals (as they have the economies of scale to maximise their position) and ends up reducing competition.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
But nothing to do with the tangent that Rick was going off on.rjsterry said:
The argument that tax competition is only one factor to consider when setting rates.Stevo_666 said:
Stop changing the subject. Which was tax competition.rick_chasey said:
Which one benefits the consumer? Hmm?Stevo_666 said:
That's a completely different type of competition i.e. between enterprises within a particular market, as opposed to between countries for corporate tax revenues. Does that help you to understand it better?rick_chasey said:
You'd be more convincing if you were arguing for encouraging competition by assisting start ups specifically, especially in industries which are oligpolistic.Stevo_666 said:
Clearly the home grown ones dont need attracting here (although the more successful ones should not be scared off or disincentivised). However attracting internationally mobile capital is important - similar to the situation where most UK trade is domestic, but nobody is saying that overseas trade doesnt matter.rjsterry said:
To read some of your posts you'd think the only investors in new or growing businesses are from outside the UK. Obviously they are part of it, but a guy starting up a small business with his life savings and a small bank loan secured on his house is also an entrepreneur.Stevo_666 said:
What definition was that?rjsterry said:
It was more a comment on Stevo's apparently rather narrow definition of entrepreneur.surrey_commuter said:
A lot of the top entrepreneurs in the USA are immigrants or 2nd generation. Their previously open economy has often been stated as one of the reasons behind it's long period of economic out-performancerjsterry said:
Most entrepreneurs already live here. They don't need to be attracted from anywhere. Maybe we should prioritise them.Stevo_666 said:
So why bother? In the end it was an act of political spite as KG mentioned.rjsterry said:So if I have that right: raising it didn't change receipts beyond background variation and lowering the rate only created one bumper year because of one-off deferrals from the previous year. Hmm.
Longer term we need to stay competitive in attracting investment and entrepreneurs.
I also include the internationally mobile corporate capital here rather than your rather narrow definition I have commented on this point before including what are the motivations and how there is a choice in many cases, hence the reality of tax competition.
Unfortunately what you propose ends up benefiting big business much more than their smaller rivals (as they have the economies of scale to maximise their position) and ends up reducing competition."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Didn't realise you were modding tonight.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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If you were valuing a business would you not be interested in net profit?rick_chasey said:most business owners are more concerned about taxes on capital gains than income surely
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valuations of amazon, uber etc suggest otherwise.....surrey_commuter said:
If you were valuing a business would you not be interested in net profit?rick_chasey said:most business owners are more concerned about taxes on capital gains than income surely
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I asked about you valuing a businessrick_chasey said:
valuations of amazon, uber etc suggest otherwise.....surrey_commuter said:
If you were valuing a business would you not be interested in net profit?rick_chasey said:most business owners are more concerned about taxes on capital gains than income surely
0