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Nah. DYOR. If you reckon The Torygraph too biased for your angle, then there are these things called search engines on t'interweb e.g. Google. Other search engines are, I understand, available.Stevo 666 wrote:
Give me a link with some facts rather than your slightly biased version and I might be able to make a sensible comment.orraloon wrote:S666, any views on the Camoron / Maybot government deal to give EdF and the Chinese a massive state subsidy for 30+ years?
Edit: KG beat me to it.0 -
Out of interest, what would those criticising the Hinckley point C fiasco do differently?You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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Alternatives to an overpriced nuclear facility? Anyone? Something to help keep our internet warrior keyboards working please! The hot air from posters on here will be too dispersed to power anything.
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Jez mon wrote:Out of interest, what would those criticising the Hinckley point C fiasco do differently?
Not commit to building the most advanced reactor in the world until the people building it know how to do it.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:Jez mon wrote:Out of interest, what would those criticising the Hinckley point C fiasco do differently?
Not commit to building the most advanced reactor in the world until the people building it know how to do it.
use the £50bn to develop and build small scale nuclear plants so giving us a world leading industry
and use our natural advantage in tidal reach to develop and build a world leading industry in tidal energy0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Jez mon wrote:Out of interest, what would those criticising the Hinckley point C fiasco do differently?
Not commit to building the most advanced reactor in the world until the people building it know how to do it.
use the £50bn to develop and build small scale nuclear plants so giving us a world leading industry
and use our natural advantage in tidal reach to develop and build a world leading industry in tidal energy
Agree with principle. But, much of the cost of a nuclear power will be down to all the safety cases, and planning applications etc. These don't lend themselves to small power plants. Given the scare factor of having a local nuclear power plant, I can't see the idea of lots of small scale ones catching on...
Tidal power is something I need to read more about. I can't help but feel that we're better off shovelling money into ITER though if we are going to spend it on speculative research.
I'd start looking at mass energy storage and wind, change the reactor design of hinckley point c.
Also I'd look to see whether new build estates etc should have combined heat and power systems.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Draconian insulation values on all new builds of any size. Upgrade the UK housing stock to world class levels so less energy is needed and generally reduce demand.
Won't work so back to plan A nuclear power.
Seriously ducked the issue a long time back. Anything now is late in the game right?. Just hope that your family passes on before things get too bad and live on the side of a hill (leeward side to avoid the worst of the wind)
BTW another option is to invent wind turbines that don't have to be locked off in strong winds. Seriously how useless is it to have wind turbines that rarely move for one reason or another. I'm certain there's a few locations with turbines that I've never seen in use..0 -
I think wind turbines get a hard time.
I would guess that any modifications that were made to allow them to produce power during say once a year high winds, would drastically drop the efficiency for the rest of the time.
This is getting a long way from the labour party. So maybe I'd just say that both parties are pretty rubbish at technology as a whole, and that means that they can get led down the garden path by organisations who don't have the voters interests at heart.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Good article on Corbyn and the recent goings on with Venezuela from Mathew D'Ancona in the Evening Standard (he writes for the Guardian btw so not a tory boy):
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/matthew-danonca-venezuela-goes-to-the-heart-of-jeremy-corbyn-s-fitness-to-become-pm-a3607621.html
Quote:
"As the UN human rights office deplores the use of “disproportionate force” against protesters in Venezuela — more than 1,000 alleged dissidents languish in arbitrary detention — and Latin American foreign ministers refuse to recognise the constitutional assembly created by President Nicolas Maduro, Jeremy Corbyn takes refuge in a disgraceful moral equivalence, only denouncing the “violence done by any side, by all sides”.
This is much more than an ideological parlour game. The Bolivarian socialist regime founded in Venezuela by the late Hugo Chavez and entrenched by his successor Maduro has long been dear to Corbyn’s heart. Until 2015 this could have been dismissed as the eccentric fixation of a maverick backbencher.
Since his election as Labour leader, however, such preoccupations have acquired a greater importance. It is now at least conceivable that Corbyn could be our next Prime Minister: his apparently unshakeable infatuation with a repressive Left-wing regime responsible for economic disaster, social collapse and constitutional crisis is more than a political footnote. It is a window into his soul."
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:Good article on Corbyn and the recent goings on with Venezuela from Mathew D'Ancona in the Evening Standard (he writes for the Guardian btw so not a tory boy):
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/matthew-danonca-venezuela-goes-to-the-heart-of-jeremy-corbyn-s-fitness-to-become-pm-a3607621.html
Quote:
"As the UN human rights office deplores the use of “disproportionate force” against protesters in Venezuela — more than 1,000 alleged dissidents languish in arbitrary detention — and Latin American foreign ministers refuse to recognise the constitutional assembly created by President Nicolas Maduro, Jeremy Corbyn takes refuge in a disgraceful moral equivalence, only denouncing the “violence done by any side, by all sides”.
This is much more than an ideological parlour game. The Bolivarian socialist regime founded in Venezuela by the late Hugo Chavez and entrenched by his successor Maduro has long been dear to Corbyn’s heart. Until 2015 this could have been dismissed as the eccentric fixation of a maverick backbencher.
Since his election as Labour leader, however, such preoccupations have acquired a greater importance. It is now at least conceivable that Corbyn could be our next Prime Minister: his apparently unshakeable infatuation with a repressive Left-wing regime responsible for economic disaster, social collapse and constitutional crisis is more than a political footnote. It is a window into his soul."
...but can we do a trade deal with them?
fwiw you should look at Venez when it was a right wing dictatorship, it was a basket case then.0 -
Where did I say we should do a trade deal with them?mamba80 wrote:...but can we do a trade deal with them?
fwiw you should look at Venez when it was a right wing dictatorship, it was a basket case then.
Venezuela is a basket case in the throes of a major crisis - and no surprise given the socialist regime there. Too far down the GDP list for us to bother about. And yet you support a politician who admires Venezuela "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Where did I say we should do a trade deal with them?mamba80 wrote:...but can we do a trade deal with them?
fwiw you should look at Venez when it was a right wing dictatorship, it was a basket case then.
Venezuela is a basket case in the throes of a major crisis - and no surprise given the socialist regime there. Too far down the GDP list for us to bother about. And yet you support a politician who admires Venezuela
your quote made some comment re HR's .... fair enough.
you are quiet when it comes to trade deals with the Philippines and various Gulf states where HR's are non existent, various Gov ministers and the PM, show no such qualms sucking up to these despotic leaders but thats all ok with you who must surely support this policy and the regimes?
as i ve said before, your should worry about the people in power, not what JC may or may not do or says, we are 5 years away from the next GE... unless she calls another snap GE 0 -
Never mentioned the Philippines either :roll:mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Where did I say we should do a trade deal with them?mamba80 wrote:...but can we do a trade deal with them?
fwiw you should look at Venez when it was a right wing dictatorship, it was a basket case then.
Venezuela is a basket case in the throes of a major crisis - and no surprise given the socialist regime there. Too far down the GDP list for us to bother about. And yet you support a politician who admires Venezuela
your quote made some comment re HR's .... fair enough.
you are quiet when it comes to trade deals with the Philippines and various Gulf states where HR's are non existent, various Gov ministers and the PM, show no such qualms sucking up to these despotic leaders but thats all ok with you who must surely support this policy and the regimes?
as i ve said before, your should worry about the people in power, not what JC may or may not do or says, we are 5 years away from the next GE... unless she calls another snap GE
That said, we and many other nations already trade with pretty much all of them so a trade deal is not a fundamental shift. If we refused to trade with any country which has a less than blemish free human rights record we wouldn't be doing a lot of trade would we - and how far back do we need to go before all is forgiven and they are deemed 'nice enough' to trade with by the mamba moral police? Don't forget that some of our illustrious EU trading partners are not quite 'whiter than white' within living memory.
Worry about JC because Venezuela is a good indication of the direction that he wants to take us if he could. Does that not bother you?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So don't worry about Corbyn because he's almost 5 years away from number 10 if at all. Funny how a lot of the political analysts/editors in broadcast, online and print news media say Corbyn has put the Labour party head office on a permanent campaign setting. Apparently they're busy squirreling away as much data on us as they can get with a view to identifying target seats. They already have well into double digits on seats that they believe there's a genuine chance of de-seating the incumbent Tory.
So if you don't see how Corbyn's genuine view on Venezuela and his inability to unreservedly criticise a genuinely dodgy regime is not worth considering... Well I just don't get that viewpoint. There are too many world leaders, supranational bodies, human rights bodies/NGO'S, etc condemning Venezuelan regime's actions for me to not question a UK major political leader who is unable to unreservedly condemn Venezuelan regime. He's a genuine contender for leader of the next.government. There is no guarantee on how far that is from happening.
Even if it is 5 years before he could lead Labour into government he needs good judgement. Mealy mouthed words half criticising Maduro's regime and the protesters doesn't cut it. He was once about protest. I reckon the old Corbyn would join the protesters cause in the old days of south American dictators. Why can't he do that with this one? Is it really down to any socialist regime is better than none?0 -
How does Venezuela rank against, Russia, Zimbabwe, China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey?0
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Stevo, the gulf states and the Philippines, have, right now, appalling HR s record, but as far as i'm aware, the leaders of the ex yugoslav atrocities are not in power? unless you mean Spain, Italy or Germany and the events of WW2 ?
of course we trade with lots of nations with whom we might not approve off but we should nt deliberately go out of our way to do so, the article you linked too, specifically dealt with uk leaving the EU and losing access to the SM and its downsides, a very big downside.
another country you are keen to deal with is the USA, led by a lunatic who is seemingly prepared to launch nuclear war against a state bordering China... where is the criticism of May and her lack of judgment, attempting trade deals with a whole list of despotic countries?
JC and his apparent like of Venez ? so what, its irrelevant, read the labour manifesto? there is little in there that should bother anyone, which is why Labour and Corbyn are doing particularly well against the Tories and May.
i ll say again, the Tories taking us out of the EU is a greater threat to UK eco prosperity than anything Labour would ever do.... i think deep down you know this too but lack the moral fibre to say so.0 -
What exactly is your point here?mamba80 wrote:Stevo, the gulf states and the Philippines, have, right now, appalling HR s record, but as far as i'm aware, the leaders of the ex yugoslav atrocities are not in power? unless you mean Spain, Italy or Germany and the events of WW2 ?
of course we trade with lots of nations with whom we might not approve off but we should nt deliberately go out of our way to do so, the article you linked too, specifically dealt with uk leaving the EU and losing access to the SM and its downsides, a very big downside.
another country you are keen to deal with is the USA, led by a lunatic who is seemingly prepared to launch nuclear war against a state bordering China... where is the criticism of May and her lack of judgment, attempting trade deals with a whole list of despotic countries?
JC and his apparent like of Venez ? so what, its irrelevant, read the labour manifesto? there is little in there that should bother anyone, which is why Labour and Corbyn are doing particularly well against the Tories and May.
i ll say again, the Tories taking us out of the EU is a greater threat to UK eco prosperity than anything Labour would ever do.... i think deep down you know this too but lack the moral fibre to say so."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
His point is Tories bad. Not hard to understand mambo's point stevo is it? He gets it into every discussion.0
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I know, but it makes him go off the point that we're actually trying to debate quite often - I'm trying to help him back on trackTangled Metal wrote:His point is Tories bad. Not hard to understand mambo's point stevo is it? He gets it into every discussion.
It must be hard for him seeing the tories till in power despite the worst election campaign in living memory
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Complete lefitebollox as I've said very clearly before. Corbyn would wreck this country.mamba80 wrote:i ll say again, the Tories taking us out of the EU is a greater threat to UK eco prosperity than anything Labour would ever do.... i think deep down you know this too but lack the moral fibre to say so."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
This thread is becoming a bit like internet white noise. By that I mean it's two opposing sides posting ideology without looking at or considering other views. Two or more tribes talking at each other not to each other. Makes for noise not debate.
Keep on avoiding answering each other's points and debating slightly different things. Plus other tricks that keep this thread on life support. I keep coming.back. I feel like I'm a vulture waiting for the thread to die. A guilty pleasure, although at times not a pleasure.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Complete lefitebollox as I've said very clearly before. Corbyn would wreck this country.mamba80 wrote:i ll say again, the Tories taking us out of the EU is a greater threat to UK eco prosperity than anything Labour would ever do.... i think deep down you know this too but lack the moral fibre to say so.
Nope - Corbyn would have 5 years at most which would limit what he could achieve. Brexit will be forever.0 -
FTR, Ancona previously worked at the Sunday Telegraph and Spectator, and is a member of Bright Blue:Stevo 666 wrote:Good article on Corbyn and the recent goings on with Venezuela from Mathew D'Ancona in the Evening Standard (he writes for the Guardian btw so not a tory boy):Bright Blue is an independent liberal conservative think tank and pressure group in the United Kingdom. The Daily Telegraph newspaper has described the organisation as "The modernising wing of the Tory party"[1] and the ConservativeHome website has described it as "A deep intellectual gene pool for the Conservative Party's future".
I know, scary, isn't it, that the Graun might include more than just leftiebollox? How will its readers cope?0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Complete lefitebollox as I've said very clearly before. Corbyn would wreck this country.mamba80 wrote:i ll say again, the Tories taking us out of the EU is a greater threat to UK eco prosperity than anything Labour would ever do.... i think deep down you know this too but lack the moral fibre to say so.
Nope - Corbyn would have 5 years at most which would limit what he could achieve. Brexit will be forever.
The effects of a Corbyn government would possibly be far more pronounced. A well managed Brexit should be less noticeable.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Its also worth remembering that Stevo is the only(?
) member of this forum who has voted for Jeremy Corbyn twice.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
You learn something every day. Maybe that's why Rick hasnt been on here lately - he's in shockbriantrumpet wrote:
FTR, Ancona previously worked at the Sunday Telegraph and Spectator, and is a member of Bright Blue:Stevo 666 wrote:Good article on Corbyn and the recent goings on with Venezuela from Mathew D'Ancona in the Evening Standard (he writes for the Guardian btw so not a tory boy):Bright Blue is an independent liberal conservative think tank and pressure group in the United Kingdom. The Daily Telegraph newspaper has described the organisation as "The modernising wing of the Tory party"[1] and the ConservativeHome website has described it as "A deep intellectual gene pool for the Conservative Party's future".
I know, scary, isn't it, that the Graun might include more than just leftiebollox? How will its readers cope?
Alternatively the Guardian might be so desperate for revenue they're actually hiring writers that normal people will read "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No normal people here! So why the rightiebollox on the grauniad? Can't be too appeal/offend the sensibilities to the politically polarised to gain exposure/sales revenue surely. Afterall readers react to things the agree or disagree strongly with. Put in pieces of polarised viewpoints and you've got all eventualities sorted.
Meanwhile the normal people read more interesting articles.0 -
If you ever read Ed Rogers, a Trump apologist, writing in the Washington Post... let's just say that the readers don't take to him much... but he does get clicks & reactions.Tangled Metal wrote:No normal people here! So why the rightiebollox on the grauniad? Can't be too appeal/offend the sensibilities to the politically polarised to gain exposure/sales revenue surely. Afterall readers react to things the agree or disagree strongly with. Put in pieces of polarised viewpoints and you've got all eventualities sorted.
Meanwhile the normal people read more interesting articles.0 -
