Join the Labour Party and save your country!
Comments
-
The report you chose to link to was incomplete, why would the Dr's rubbish their own work? it gives a far more accurate report on the state of the nhs but as it goes against your view so its obviously bias :roll:
this is why its difficult to take anything you say seriously.
China accounts for 4% of uk exports (19billion) about double for imports, Germany alone is nearer 9%
why might that be, considering china is a growing market, do you think proximity or otherwise has something to do with it?0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.0 -
Why was it issued if it was incomplete?mamba80 wrote:The report you chose to link to was incomplete, why would the Dr's rubbish their own work? it gives a far more accurate report on the state of the nhs but as it goes against your view so its obviously bias :roll:
this is why its difficult to take anything you say seriously.
China accounts for 4% of uk exports (19billion) about double for imports, Germany alone is nearer 9%
why might that be, considering china is a growing market, do you think proximity or otherwise has something to do with it?
Doctors clearly have an agenda, unlike the report I posted.
I posted a UK success story about a state run institution and everyone who replied felt the need to try to rubbish it or do it down. Isn't that a little bit sad?
As I said above there is a reason, because some people find it hard to swallow the hack that a Tory run NHS is doing well compared to other countries. Also a bit sad. You need to recognise success where you find it.
PS: your stats on China shown how much potential there is in China. Clearly a trade deal should help redress the balance
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The report is relative to other countries. What makes you an expert on the healthcare systems in those other countries?ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.
unfortunately in Stevo's BUPA healthcare world, you are talking cr@p because Jeremy Hunt says so.
i lived in Seweden, went out with Nurse, was fixed up in french hospital after m/c accident, my daughter was also treated for a serious illness in france too but i imagined it all, the NHS is the worlds best, we can learn nothing from our European neighbours., just like we are the best at football and only lose at the WC because of shitte ref's and foreign managers.
Its not sad Stevo, its true, as shown in the lancet report and in another recent one on life expectancy falling since 2010.0 -
You neatly sidestepped this part...Stevo 666 wrote:
Another case of playing the man not the ball. Oh dear.PBlakeney wrote:
An accountant using stats to prove a desired outcome. No surprises there.Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
The truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth please.
Your evidence to refute my point is what....?
"The UK has one of the highest rates of avoidable deaths in western Europe, and tens of thousands of lives could be saved each year if NHS patients with serious conditions such as cancer were treated by social health insurance systems in neighbouring countries, such as Belgium and Germany.
"It is not just low-income earners who receive poor care, the NHS's provision of care is equally poor for everybody, irrespective of income."The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
-
Healthcare is a tricky one.
I'm relatively convinced that there are fairly significant parts of healthcare that are not effectively done by the private sector; the conflicts of interest are too great, and lead to greater inefficiencies. This is mainly influenced by my own experience being treated by the US health system which was rather eye opening.
Nonetheless, healthcare as part of the state is victim to the 'we want the service but don't want to pay for it' logic that affects all public services, and is therefore subject to poor governance via heavy interference of politicians, who, as we plainly see on a daily basis, are usually f*cking sh!t at anything apart from internal party politics.
My particular pet hate is hating on managers against 'front line staff', as if you can effectively run one without the other.
I have no real solution, though my nearest stab would be have it state run and just tax & spend for it. After all, what's al the rest of the crap worth if you don't have your health, right?0 -
Explain the survey results then...mamba80 wrote:unfortunately in Stevo's BUPA healthcare world, you are talking cr@p because Jeremy Hunt says so.
i lived in Seweden, went out with Nurse, was fixed up in french hospital after m/c accident, my daughter was also treated for a serious illness in france too but i imagined it all, the NHS is the worlds best, we can learn nothing from our European neighbours., just like we are the best at football and only lose at the WC because of shitte ref's and foreign managers.
Its not sad Stevo, its true, as shown in the lancet report and in another recent one on life expectancy falling since 2010."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No, I mentioned the shortcomings in my very first post:PBlakeney wrote:
You neatly sidestepped this part...Stevo 666 wrote:
Another case of playing the man not the ball. Oh dear.PBlakeney wrote:
An accountant using stats to prove a desired outcome. No surprises there.Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
The truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth please.
Your evidence to refute my point is what....?
"The UK has one of the highest rates of avoidable deaths in western Europe, and tens of thousands of lives could be saved each year if NHS patients with serious conditions such as cancer were treated by social health insurance systems in neighbouring countries, such as Belgium and Germany.
"It is not just low-income earners who receive poor care, the NHS's provision of care is equally poor for everybody, irrespective of income."
"Not a perfect school report by any stretch of the imagination, but we according to this report the NHS is better than the healthcare systems in the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany and France."
Now same question as to Mamba - explain the survey results."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Surveys can be made to give the desired result.Stevo 666 wrote:
Now same question as to Mamba - explain the survey results.
Any result.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Explain the survey results then...mamba80 wrote:unfortunately in Stevo's BUPA healthcare world, you are talking cr@p because Jeremy Hunt says so.
i lived in Seweden, went out with Nurse, was fixed up in french hospital after m/c accident, my daughter was also treated for a serious illness in france too but i imagined it all, the NHS is the worlds best, we can learn nothing from our European neighbours., just like we are the best at football and only lose at the WC because of shitte ref's and foreign managers.
Its not sad Stevo, its true, as shown in the lancet report and in another recent one on life expectancy falling since 2010.
From the v brief BBC article....
The good and the bad
The NHS was praised for the safety of its care, the systems in place to prevent ill-health, such as vaccinations and screening, the speed at which people get help and that there was equitable access regardless of income.
Only in one of the five themes looked at did the NHS perform poorly compared with the other nations - health outcomes. This covers general health of the population, early deaths and cancer survival among other measures.
the bad is pretty important dont you think?
Its not a question of knocking a successful NHS but there are some pretty shocking lapses in care, possibly due to having 40,000 nursing vacancies unfilled.
as i said earlier, my Mum was left to lie in her own p1ss and developed bedsores and needed antibiotics, we had to demand a pressure bed to help her.... keeping patients dry and turned is a basic nursing requirement, we also had to form a rota to feed her, as their HCA's didnt have more than 10mins and this wasnt enough, Derriford did not have enough staff or equipment, yet this is a hospital rated good, it is no mid staffs.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
The report is relative to other countries. What makes you an expert on the healthcare systems in those other countries?ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.
Wind your neck in - I was pointing out that the tories are screwing the NHS. Again.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Explain the survey results then...mamba80 wrote:unfortunately in Stevo's BUPA healthcare world, you are talking cr@p because Jeremy Hunt says so.
i lived in Seweden, went out with Nurse, was fixed up in french hospital after m/c accident, my daughter was also treated for a serious illness in france too but i imagined it all, the NHS is the worlds best, we can learn nothing from our European neighbours., just like we are the best at football and only lose at the WC because of shitte ref's and foreign managers.
Its not sad Stevo, its true, as shown in the lancet report and in another recent one on life expectancy falling since 2010.
another report... states the benefits of a insurance based system.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... th-systems0 -
Well that's a fact, obviously :roll:ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The report is relative to other countries. What makes you an expert on the healthcare systems in those other countries?ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.
Wind your neck in - I was pointing out that the tories are screwing the NHS. Again.
Simplistic leftiebollox. Unless you can supply the evidence?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm asking.you to explain the survey result.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Explain the survey results then...mamba80 wrote:unfortunately in Stevo's BUPA healthcare world, you are talking cr@p because Jeremy Hunt says so.
i lived in Seweden, went out with Nurse, was fixed up in french hospital after m/c accident, my daughter was also treated for a serious illness in france too but i imagined it all, the NHS is the worlds best, we can learn nothing from our European neighbours., just like we are the best at football and only lose at the WC because of shitte ref's and foreign managers.
Its not sad Stevo, its true, as shown in the lancet report and in another recent one on life expectancy falling since 2010.
another report... states the benefits of a insurance based system.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... th-systems"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
i dont know the research methodology do i ? so i cant answer your question, clearly there is dispute as 1 linked to 2 reports that state the opposite and even your report says we lag behind in health out comes, surely a v important factor?
Where perhaps we do agree is that the NHS model is unsustainable and maybe we need to look at euro health systems with an insurance based funding model, we spend less on health than our euro neighbours and have less dr's and nurses per head of population and if these reports are accurate, we are less well cared for.
We also need to look at agency costs, dead money, not helped by pay restraint, why we cant ring fence certain professions instead of a blanket pay freeze is beyond me, then again i dont believe public sector workers are over paid.... well, not the ones on the coal face.0 -
Here's the scorecard from the actual report.
We do well overall but have some pretty big holes. One thing to realise is that this is a report principally looking at the US health service and how this compares internationally. They also produce tables state by state and more locally for the US. I get the impression that their main focus is on attacking how inefficient the US system is.
Edit: Oops, that was 2014's chart. Although my main points still apply to the 2017 report, it would appear that our performance has slipped a bit in 3 years, which would be consistent with both Stevo's post and some of the replies.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interac ... or-mirror/1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Well that's a fact, obviously :roll:ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The report is relative to other countries. What makes you an expert on the healthcare systems in those other countries?ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.
Wind your neck in - I was pointing out that the tories are screwing the NHS. Again.
Simplistic leftiebollox. Unless you can supply the evidence?
My 15 years working front line A&E, seeing, treating and assisting people that need the NHS and seeing the decimation of services, the hospital(s) and ward(s) closures, tells me that the NHS is crumbling under the tory government through lack of funding and more 'top down' reorganisations which they promised wouldn't happen.
However I think you're a bit of a tit and loving the attention so please carry on thinking you know what you're talking about. It's patently obvious you don't but you keep going. I'll continue to laugh at your posts.0 -
great news! access to justice is a fundamental right and this judgement shows the Tories for what they really are, thank goodness we have a independent judiciary.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40727400
gov has to pay back the fees paid too.
all we need is reform of legal aid, another tory injustice.0 -
I'm not commenting on the rights and wrongs of charging up front for tribunals here, but when you say the government has to pay back the fees that ultimately means us - tax payers.0
-
Shortfall wrote:I'm not commenting on the rights and wrongs of charging up front for tribunals here, but when you say the government has to pay back the fees that ultimately means us - tax payers.
the gov will be paying back the illegal fee's charged & paid by claimants, its money they should never have had.0 -
-
I asked for some evidence. You telling me that is not 'evidence'. Try again, if you can. Be objective as well if thats possible.ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Well that's a fact, obviously :roll:ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The report is relative to other countries. What makes you an expert on the healthcare systems in those other countries?ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.
Wind your neck in - I was pointing out that the tories are screwing the NHS. Again.
Simplistic leftiebollox. Unless you can supply the evidence?
My 15 years working front line A&E, seeing, treating and assisting people that need the NHS and seeing the decimation of services, the hospital(s) and ward(s) closures, tells me that the NHS is crumbling under the tory government through lack of funding and more 'top down' reorganisations which they promised wouldn't happen.
However I think you're a bit of a tit and loving the attention so please carry on thinking you know what you're talking about. It's patently obvious you don't but you keep going. I'll continue to laugh at your posts.
Apart from that , your little rant on the NHS was not even addressing the original point and that was how our health service compares to other countries. As you haven't replied to my question about what makes you an expert in foreign health services I'll assume that you don't know."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
I asked for some evidence. You telling me that is not 'evidence'. Try again, if you can. Be objective as well if thats possible.ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Well that's a fact, obviously :roll:ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The report is relative to other countries. What makes you an expert on the healthcare systems in those other countries?ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
That report was published in the Lancet and run by doctors. No axe to grind there then. I chose the link to the survey that I posted because it had no obvious bias or agenda.mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
The survey says the NHS is the best and you said we are trying to reform and improve it. So that's the way it looks to me.PBlakeney wrote:
Any events can be interpreted differently.Stevo 666 wrote:I guess it's just part of the UK winning mentality, the drive to improve on what is already the best and not resting on our laurels.
The report does say it can be improved.
UK winning mentality? Really?
Winning mentality is difficult to explain to those who don't have it, so I won't try here
the report i highlighted (which you conveniently ignored) shows the nhs 30th not no1 and even your survey says the uk is falling behind in health out comes, surely a very important indicator?
this is a comparison from 2005, under Labour, it shows we ve a lot to learn, it backs up the report i linked too.
https://www.bowgroup.org/sites/bowgroup ... 202005.pdf
we consistently invest less into the nhs, esp number of Doc's, the shortages in GP's and nurses are not just a tory issue but a long term failure, brexit may highlight this.
see, i can be just as critical of labour as i am of the tories
My argument here isn't Labour vs Tory. It's UK vs other other countries. I think some might find it hard to accept that an NHS run by those nasty Tories is actually doing rather well compared to its peers
It's not. I'm front line A&E paramedic and the NHS is failing miserably when it comes to patient care. Hospital closures (4 in my local region and one brand new hospital which falls on it's ar$e at any given moment and 4 into 1 doesn't go), lack of ambulances on the road, lack of money coming into the NHS and Ambulance service. I could go on - the NHS is being systemically stripped and if you think it's bad now just wait for what is around the corner. Further 'aligning' of services and closures/restructuring is on it's way. This winter is going to be hell.
Sadly there is no end in sight.
Wind your neck in - I was pointing out that the tories are screwing the NHS. Again.
Simplistic leftiebollox. Unless you can supply the evidence?
My 15 years working front line A&E, seeing, treating and assisting people that need the NHS and seeing the decimation of services, the hospital(s) and ward(s) closures, tells me that the NHS is crumbling under the tory government through lack of funding and more 'top down' reorganisations which they promised wouldn't happen.
However I think you're a bit of a tit and loving the attention so please carry on thinking you know what you're talking about. It's patently obvious you don't but you keep going. I'll continue to laugh at your posts.
Apart from that , your little rant on the NHS was not even addressing the original point and that was how our health service compares to other countries. As you haven't replied to my question about what makes you an expert in foreign health services I'll assume that you don't know.
blah, blah, blah, blah. That's all I got from that.
Keep being the troll. You boring little man. I'm also nicknaming you Caneston. For obvious reasons.0 -
Poor attempt to dodge the questions. So I'll ask you again...ExCyclist wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:I asked for some evidence. You telling me that is not 'evidence'. Try again, if you can. Be objective as well if thats possible.
Apart from that , your little rant on the NHS was not even addressing the original point and that was how our health service compares to other countries. As you haven't replied to my question about what makes you an expert in foreign health services I'll assume that you don't know.
blah, blah, blah, blah. That's all I got from that.
Keep being the troll. You boring little man. I'm also nicknaming you Caneston. For obvious reasons.
That said, you repeatedly avoiding answering the points and now resorting to insults tells me that you're not really capable of addressing the issues. I reckon the best thing you can do is stick to treating people."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I ve linked to 2 reports that say the NHS isnt the world class organisation you claim it is, so why are they so different?
Caneston? i like that... it doesnt work either lol!0 -
Good point - clearly depends on the survey. Although as I've mentioned before the one I posted was a relative one - we may or may not be world class but we're more world class than some of our esteemed neighbours who many people simply assume have better systems than we do. That survey is evidence that it is not necessarily the case.mamba80 wrote:I ve linked to 2 reports that say the NHS isnt the world class organisation you claim it is, so why are they so different?
Caneston? i like that... it doesnt work either lol!
Anyhow, I'm waiting for some informed and on-topic comments backed up by a bit of evidence from Mr. ambulance driver. I'm not holding my breath on this one though."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The survey is about how the US health system compares to other OECD countries. And it was produced by a think tank that is lobbying for improvement to the US healthcare system in terms of reduced cost and improved coverage, standard of care and outcomes. I think that colours the results quite significantly. Surely you read the report that you posted, Stevo?Stevo 666 wrote:
Good point - clearly depends on the survey. Although as I've mentioned before the one I posted was a relative one - we may or may not be world class but we're more world class than some of our esteemed neighbours who many people simply assume have better systems than we do. That survey is evidence that it is not necessarily the case.mamba80 wrote:I ve linked to 2 reports that say the NHS isnt the world class organisation you claim it is, so why are they so different?
Caneston? i like that... it doesnt work either lol!
Anyhow, I'm waiting for some informed and on-topic comments backed up by a bit of evidence from Mr. ambulance driver. I'm not holding my breath on this one though. 1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I did indeed read it.rjsterry wrote:
The survey is about how the US health system compares to other OECD countries. And it was produced by a think tank that is lobbying for improvement to the US healthcare system in terms of reduced cost and improved coverage, standard of care and outcomes. I think that colours the results quite significantly. Surely you read the report that you posted, Stevo?Stevo 666 wrote:
Good point - clearly depends on the survey. Although as I've mentioned before the one I posted was a relative one - we may or may not be world class but we're more world class than some of our esteemed neighbours who many people simply assume have better systems than we do. That survey is evidence that it is not necessarily the case.mamba80 wrote:I ve linked to 2 reports that say the NHS isnt the world class organisation you claim it is, so why are they so different?
Caneston? i like that... it doesnt work either lol!
Anyhow, I'm waiting for some informed and on-topic comments backed up by a bit of evidence from Mr. ambulance driver. I'm not holding my breath on this one though.
It certainly colours the report against the US - it came bottom. But there is nothing to suggest that it is biased in favour of the UK, or against some of our esteemed EU partners who come out worse than we do. Hence it was a valid survey to post from a UK perspective compared to several other countries "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
