Join the Labour Party and save your country!

1…107108110112113…515

Comments

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,922
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Labour really are pathetic. Tory apologists.
    If ever there were a time when the country needed an organised, nimble, strong opposition to test the Government, this is it. The lack of proper opposition is one reason we're in this legal and political mess.
    On the plus side, there was something approaching holding the government to account at PMQs. Possibly because TM was away, and JC was away, but it's a start. A bit more of that and a bit less of reading out stuff that people have sent in as though it's Points of View and we might have had something more meaningful than red. white and blue Brexit.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    Labour ARE making progress under Corbyn, they have turned a corner.
    They didn't lose their deposit in Sleaford.
    Came 4th though.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    A little disappointed with the LD result, even if it was an improvement
    _
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Labour appear to have no strategy whatsoever on Brexit. Even Burnham is whittering on about wage pressure on the lowest paid and the need to control immigration.

    It appears he is completely bypassing that the govt will need to borrow £16bn extra to cover for the lower tax receipts of fewer immigrants from the EU. Plus who is going to fill the gaps in staffing in our services, more Muslims? That'll go down well with the Leave voters and the people who see fit to blame immigrants for all their ills.

    I honestly despair, it's almost as if they are pandering to the nationalists, the Tories and the 37% of Labour voters who voted to Leave, and at the same time upsetting 63%, ignoring the youth who are Labour's future and providing absolutely no alternative to disgruntled Tory voters.

    Their leadership and strategists really need to get a grip of reality.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,963
    I think this is a perceptive piece from John Harris. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -48-brexit - and it doesn't look good for Labour.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,816
    I'm no Labour supporter, but for me there is a clear message they could use that would work and that is 'Working to make Brexit the best it can be for all' (as in not just those rich toffs over there) it would resonate with working class Brexiters but also with the pragmatic remainers who accept Brexit will happen and want to see it the 'least worst' it could be.

    The subtitle to that would be 'working with the government when they are right, and holding them to task when we think they are wrong'.

    Right now I think many voters are put off by their constant demands to know what the government plan (noting that any plan will be the first casualty once negotiations start anyway) rather than appearing to work actually for the good of the country. As such they are like a bland looking car, they don't turn anyone off, but they sure as hell arent turning anyone on either.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    The Rookie wrote:
    I'm no Labour supporter, but for me there is a clear message they could use that would work and that is 'Working to make Brexit the best it can be for all' (as in not just those rich toffs over there) it would resonate with working class Brexiters but also with the pragmatic remainers who accept Brexit will happen and want to see it the 'least worst' it could be.

    The subtitle to that would be 'working with the government when they are right, and holding them to task when we think they are wrong'.

    Right now I think many voters are put off by their constant demands to know what the government plan (noting that any plan will be the first casualty once negotiations start anyway) rather than appearing to work actually for the good of the country. As such they are like a bland looking car, they don't turn anyone off, but they sure as hell arent turning anyone on either.

    That's what they're attempting to do. Problem is, for many, Brexit is THE only factor, it's incredibly polarising and of course has such huge ramifications on the NHS, lower-paid workers, the working classes, the soup kitchen queues, taxes and what the youth will have to pay back in the years to come. They are appealing to no-one apart from a hard-core of Corbynistas.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    No one knows what Labour stand for anymore, there is a vast void of leadership.

    i wish they d say Brexit is wrong and then explain why, explain people were lied too but they wont, they'll p1$$ around, sit on the fence, neither for or against and disappear in peoples minds as an effective opposition.

    In the main, the oppositions job isnt to agree with the Government.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    mamba80 wrote:
    No one knows what Labour stand for anymore, there is a vast void of leadership.
    I love it when a plan comes together (see thread title) :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    No one knows what Labour stand for anymore, there is a vast void of leadership.
    I love it when a plan comes together (see thread title) :)

    no, what thread title is that then?

    the country needs an effective opposition stevo, its dangerous that we havent got one, it seems to be giving rise to more extreme views.

    this country is crying out for an alternative to brexit and at the mo, only the libdems are providing that.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    No one knows what Labour stand for anymore, there is a vast void of leadership.
    I love it when a plan comes together (see thread title) :)

    no, what thread title is that then?

    the country needs an effective opposition stevo, its dangerous that we havent got one, it seems to be giving rise to more extreme views.

    this country is crying out for an alternative to brexit and at the mo, only the libdems are providing that.
    This thread title...

    Let someone else have a go at being opposition then. Lib Dems should be good, after all they're used to not being in power :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    again, what thread title... relevance....

    given the murder of joe Cox, death threats on Ginna Millar, Rick experiences, the chaos which is Brexit (a situation bought about by the tories all on their ownsome) i m not sure an unopposed far right tory Government is anything to celebrate.
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,699
    mamba80 wrote:
    ...the chaos which is Brexit...

    Just out of interest, how does this "chaos" manifest itself? People talk of chaos, but everything seems quite orderly when you look at things objectively. Obviously, for those opposed to Brexit, it is comforting to talk of "Brexit chaos".
    mamba80 wrote:
    ...far right tory Government...

    FFS, man. The Tories are moderately to the right of centre on the grand scale of things. Calling them "far right" makes you sound hysterical and trivialises real "far right" (and indeed any other genuine extreme) governments.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    mamba80 wrote:
    again, what thread title... relevance....

    given the murder of joe Cox, death threats on Ginna Millar, Rick experiences, the chaos which is Brexit (a situation bought about by the tories all on their ownsome) i m not sure an unopposed far right tory Government is anything to celebrate.
    Title is self explanatory. We got Corbyn in and stuffed Labour's electoral chances. It's for the best. What part of that isn't clear?

    As for the Tories being far right, well some on the far left do make that claim :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    economically they are adopting policies associated with left of centre parties
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,922
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Title is self explanatory. We got Corbyn in and stuffed Labour's electoral chances. It's for the best. What part of that isn't clear?

    Without a meaningful opposition to focus minds the Conservative party will just start fighting amongst themselves over Europe/Brexit... as they always do. Short term electoral gain will bite you in the arse, Stevo. Even some Tory MPs acknowledge this.

    I also think your giving Corbyn too much credit. With or without him, Labour still hasn't really found a way to move forward from 2010.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Title is self explanatory. We got Corbyn in and stuffed Labour's electoral chances. It's for the best. What part of that isn't clear?

    Without a meaningful opposition to focus minds the Conservative party will just start fighting amongst themselves over Europe/Brexit... as they always do. Short term electoral gain will bite you in the ars*, Stevo. Even some Tory MPs acknowledge this.

    I also think your giving Corbyn too much credit. With or without him, Labour still hasn't really found a way to move forward from 2010.
    It's been said on here before but the EU/BREXIT argument would happen regardless of the state of the opposition. I am thinking longer term however as the last thing I want is Labour getting power in 2020.

    I give Corbyn quite a lot of the credit for turning a 6 point deficit in the opinion polls in Sept last year into a 16 point deficit last month:
    http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Title is self explanatory. We got Corbyn in and stuffed Labour's electoral chances. It's for the best. What part of that isn't clear?

    Without a meaningful opposition to focus minds the Conservative party will just start fighting amongst themselves over Europe/Brexit... as they always do. Short term electoral gain will bite you in the ars*, Stevo. Even some Tory MPs acknowledge this.

    I also think your giving Corbyn too much credit. With or without him, Labour still hasn't really found a way to move forward from 2010.

    You give Stevo too much credit for what his actions are doing to the Labour party. He and those like him are a tiny minority of the people voting for Corbyn. It is the left wing groups like Momentum that are driving the parties direction with their ideology. You only have to look at the demographics of their support base which is young and lacking in real life experiences. They have not been on the receiving end of the socialist mantra where "it works until you run out of spending other peoples money". When they grow up they will choose to move Labour from the far left or search out a more representative party.

    I agree that government is poorer for not having meaningful opposition but Labour screwed themselves by royally screwing up the economy on their watch. Additionally, do you think having a Labour/SNP coalition in opposition as being a positive for the country?

    I certainly don't and prefer an infighting Tory party as the way of focusing the government in the absence of a sensible centre left Labour party e.g. led by someone like Andy Burnham
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    He wasn't giving me credit as far as I can see.

    It probably was the far left factions like who 'did it' for Corbyn but better safe than sorry. As you say, a Labour SNP coalition would have been even worse than Labour on it's own.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    ...the chaos which is Brexit...

    Just out of interest, how does this "chaos" manifest itself? People talk of chaos, but everything seems quite orderly when you look at things objectively. Obviously, for those opposed to Brexit, it is comforting to talk of "Brexit chaos".
    mamba80 wrote:
    ...far right tory Government...

    FFS, man. The Tories are moderately to the right of centre on the grand scale of things. Calling them "far right" makes you sound hysterical and trivialises real "far right" (and indeed any other genuine extreme) governments.

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,963
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?

    Politically they have lurched to the right but economically they are somewhere to the left of Blair with their deficits and market interference.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?

    Politically they have lurched to the right but economically they are somewhere to the left of Blair with their deficits and market interference.

    Well said SC.

    A Tory Party where the economy doesn't matter. More than willing to destroy it whilst (falsely) promising the earth to the masses for their own ideology. That is pretty much the definition of fascist.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:

    They are now a fascist party Steve after many years of being moderate under Cameron and Major. Clearly you've closed your mind to them trying to shut down/quieten/discredit everyone/thing that doesn't agree with their revolting views.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Nah, the Tories stopped being a centralist party after Major, after him, it was just a chase for 'kipper votes and the lowest common denominator.
    Wont be long before Arron Banks starts saying they are too extreme for him!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    Joelsim wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?

    Politically they have lurched to the right but economically they are somewhere to the left of Blair with their deficits and market interference.

    Well said SC.

    A Tory Party where the economy doesn't matter. More than willing to destroy it whilst (falsely) promising the earth to the masses for their own ideology. That is pretty much the definition of fascist.
    Complete rubbish. You just made up that definition of fascism.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?

    Politically they have lurched to the right but economically they are somewhere to the left of Blair with their deficits and market interference.

    Well said SC.

    A Tory Party where the economy doesn't matter. More than willing to destroy it whilst (falsely) promising the earth to the masses for their own ideology. That is pretty much the definition of fascist.
    Complete rubbish. You just made up that definition of fascism.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

    I'm starting to think you are actually Jacob Rees-Mogg.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    Joelsim wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?

    Politically they have lurched to the right but economically they are somewhere to the left of Blair with their deficits and market interference.

    Well said SC.

    A Tory Party where the economy doesn't matter. More than willing to destroy it whilst (falsely) promising the earth to the masses for their own ideology. That is pretty much the definition of fascist.
    Complete rubbish. You just made up that definition of fascism.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

    I'm starting to think you are actually Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    Show me a link to a commonly accepted definition of fascism that is the same as yours. Or admit that you're making it up.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:

    This particular Govt is as far right as ever one's been in my lifetime, run by nationalist ideologists who have no clue, fascists.

    A pathetic Labour Party is the very worst thing this country needs right now, but even a Corbyn Govt (not that it'll happen) won't damage the economy or the country as much as this current crock of sh!t is.
    Are you competing with mamba for who can be the most hysterical about the government ? He calls them far right so you try to top it by calling them fascist. :roll:

    They are a mainstream party - like Labour and the Lib Dems used to be. :wink:
    Out of interest, would you accept that they've at least drifted rightwards towards the Redwood Wing, in order to placate the UKIP-leaning part of the party?

    Politically they have lurched to the right but economically they are somewhere to the left of Blair with their deficits and market interference.

    Well said SC.

    A Tory Party where the economy doesn't matter. More than willing to destroy it whilst (falsely) promising the earth to the masses for their own ideology. That is pretty much the definition of fascist.
    Complete rubbish. You just made up that definition of fascism.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

    I'm starting to think you are actually Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    Show me a link to a commonly accepted definition of fascism that is the same as yours. Or admit that you're making it up.

    Blimey Steve. Just blimey.

Categories