Giro D'Italia- Stage 15 ***Spoilers***

dolan_driver

Paul 8v wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Hesjedal has heart. Rode the whole climb solo and comes in 3 mins down

I like him, he might not be up there with Aru and Contador but the guy is a fighter.

It is difficult not to like the guy and his never-say-die attitude, POC glasses notwithstanding.

DD.

Paul 8v

Dolan Driver wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Hesjedal has heart. Rode the whole climb solo and comes in 3 mins down

I like him, he might not be up there with Aru and Contador but the guy is a fighter.

It is difficult not to like the guy and his never-say-die attitude, POC glasses notwithstanding.

DD.

Haha, I'm almost used to them now, at least he's easy to pick out I suppose and the vented POC helmet is much better than the bowling ball aero one!

RonB

Sort of class we've come to expect from Oleg :roll:

@olegtinkov: Hotels in Italian mountains aren't luxury enough. I'm on the market for renting motorhome for the third #Giro week, any suggestions ? :-)

Bo Duke

Paul 8v wrote:

I'm sure this has been covered on the previous pages but did Astana not get the memo that the TTT was stage 1?

That's what I pointed out to the missus, lined up steaming up a steep climb with everyone else falling out of the back.... only Contador able to keep up...... frantic radio messages from base 'slow down, slow down....' .

Looks like we're back in the old days, these things don't just happen, they've been preparing all winter.

wombly_knees

Craigus89 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

If Quintana and Froome stay upright and are fit then Contador won't win the Tour.

Umm, what are you basing that on? Presumably not current form, rather your dislike of Contador?

2011?

milton50

Craigus89 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

If Quintana and Froome stay upright and are fit then Contador won't win the Tour.

Umm, what are you basing that on? Presumably not current form, rather your dislike of Contador?

Just my opinion. I was putting it out there to see what other people's opinions are. It's been well documented how hard it is to win the Giro-Tour double. I think if he was up against second tier Grand Tour riders then he could do it, but not against riders as strong as Quintana and Froome (who by the way beat Contador the last time they raced against him).

I actually don't dislike Contador and I've said on numerous occasions that he is the best GT rider of the last 20 years, but he certainly isn't my favourite rider.

craigus89

Milton50 wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

If Quintana and Froome stay upright and are fit then Contador won't win the Tour.

Umm, what are you basing that on? Presumably not current form, rather your dislike of Contador?

Just my opinion. I was putting it out there to see what other people's opinions are. It's been well documented how hard it is to win the Giro-Tour double. I think if he was up against second tier Grand Tour riders then he could do it, but not against riders as strong as Quintana and Froome (who by the way beat Contador the last time they raced against him).

I actually don't dislike Contador and I've said on numerous occasions that he is the best GT rider of the last 20 years, but he certainly isn't my favourite rider.

Contador beat Froome and Quintana in the Vuelta, the last GT they raced in.

milton50

Yeh, I'm talking about the last time they raced against each other in a stage race.

frenchfighter

Which as we know is irrelevant as a week stage race is nothing compared to a GT in addition to the fact Contador deliberately is peaking for Giro and for Tour and the rest this year doesnt matter.

frenchfighter

Dolan Driver wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Hesjedal has heart. Rode the whole climb solo and comes in 3 mins down

I like him, he might not be up there with Aru and Contador but the guy is a fighter.

It is difficult not to like the guy and his never-say-die attitude, POC glasses notwithstanding.

DD.

I thought you and others on here didnt like dopers?

Hesjedal was a heavyweight doper in the past.

I guess your opinion tables turn because Canada is part of the Commenwealth?

milton50

It certainly won't have a huge bearing on what happens at the Tour, but neither is it irrelevant.

thegibdog

Is it just me or are most of these threads becoming unreadable?

thegibdog

As a side note, if you watch the Eurosport highlights you can appreciate just how good a commentator Rob Hatch is as you can listen to Carlton commentating on the same race (obviously not for too long though as it will send you insane).

milton50

I know it's boring. I've tried not to get into these kind back and forth debates since I joined but for some reason I succumbed yesterday. I'll stop now.

bobmcstuff

frenchfighter wrote:

Which as we know is irrelevant as a week stage race is nothing compared to a GT in addition to the fact Contador deliberately is peaking for Giro and for Tour and the rest this year doesnt matter.

Well I agree it's hard to look past Contador at the moment, while I don't think it's a done deal it's probably where I would put my money - but I'd much prefer a strong Quintana and Froome to be able to put the pressure on him, would make for a much more interesting race.

frenchfighter

Oh they certainly will pressure him! It will possibly be the hardest Tour for ages and the best inform lineup. Not much TT miles and some nasty mountain stages. It will be a super tough Tour to win for anyone.

Pross

Contador's chances of winning the Tour will, in a large part, be determined by how hard Astana can make him work in this final week. They might not be able to win the Giro for Aru but they could possibly give Nibali a better chance in July.

frenchfighter

Photos:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/ ... -15_371493
http://www.steephill.tv/2015/giro-d-ita ... /stage-15/

Crampeur

gsk82

frenchfighter wrote:

Which as we know is irrelevant as a week stage race is nothing compared to a GT in addition to the fact Contador deliberately is peaking for Giro and for Tour and the rest this year doesnt matter.

last time they both rode a gt fit froome destroyed him, to the extent that contador is now utterly obsessed with froome and can't ride without continually looking for him.

dolan_driver

frenchfighter wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Hesjedal has heart. Rode the whole climb solo and comes in 3 mins down

I like him, he might not be up there with Aru and Contador but the guy is a fighter.

It is difficult not to like the guy and his never-say-die attitude, POC glasses notwithstanding.

DD.

I thought you and others on here didnt like dopers?

Hesjedal was a heavyweight doper in the past.

I guess your opinion tables turn because Canada is part of the Commenwealth?

I reckon there there are three types of riders in the peloton these days.

1. Riders who have never doped and are riding clean.

2. Riders who have doped, admitted their mistakes, and are now riding clean.

3. Riders who doped, were caught, still denied it, and continue to ride in the bunch, either clean or possibly still micro-dosing, AKA unrepentant dopers.

I think numbers 1 and 2 have a place in the modern peloton, number 3 doesn't. Ryder falls into the second category while the evidence indicates, in my opinion, that Alberto is in category 3. Thus, I can take no joy from any of his performances.

Contador is undoubtedly a huge talent and is probably otherwise a very decent guy but he has failed a dope test and still denies it. Regardless of the detected quantity, he had Clenbutoral in his system while competing in the Tour de France! He wasn't in some chipper in Mexico or China where he might have had a reasonable excuse had he consumed some local cuisine (no pun intended ). He was matching Rasmussen when the Dane was filled to the gills with EPO. What does that tell us? I'll enjoy the rest of this Giro following the progress of Konig and Ryder and, hopefully, a resurgent Uran. You are a big Contador fan and good luck to you. I don't think the guy can be trusted and so I disregard his performances.

Ryder's nationality is irrelevant. I don't live in the Commonwealth. He rides for a credible team. That's good enough for me.

DD.

dolan_driver

thegibdog wrote:

As a side note, if you watch the Eurosport highlights you can appreciate just how good a commentator Rob Hatch is as you can listen to Carlton commentating on the same race (obviously not for too long though as it will send you insane).

Yep, got to agree with you on Rob Hatch. He is very good and complements Kelly quite well.


DD.

inseine

Dolan Driver wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Hesjedal has heart. Rode the whole climb solo and comes in 3 mins down

I like him, he might not be up there with Aru and Contador but the guy is a fighter.

It is difficult not to like the guy and his never-say-die attitude, POC glasses notwithstanding.

DD.

I thought you and others on here didnt like dopers?

Hesjedal was a heavyweight doper in the past.

I guess your opinion tables turn because Canada is part of the Commenwealth?

I reckon there there are three types of riders in the peloton these days.

1. Riders who have never doped and are riding clean.

2. Riders who have doped, admitted their mistakes, and are now riding clean.

3. Riders who doped, were caught, still denied it, and continue to ride in the bunch, either clean or possibly still micro-dosing, AKA unrepentant dopers.

I think numbers 1 and 2 have a place in the modern peloton, number 3 doesn't. Ryder falls into the second category while the evidence indicates, in my opinion, that Alberto is in category 3. Thus, I can take no joy from any of his performances.

Contador is undoubtedly a huge talent and is probably otherwise a very decent guy but he has failed a dope test and still denies it. Regardless of the detected quantity, he had Clenbutoral in his system while competing in the Tour de France! He wasn't in some chipper in Mexico or China where he might have had a reasonable excuse had he consumed some local cuisine (no pun intended ). He was matching Rasmussen when the Dane was filled to the gills with EPO. What does that tell us? I'll enjoy the rest of this Giro following the progress of Konig and Ryder and, hopefully, a resurgent Uran. You are a big Contador fan and good luck to you. I don't think the guy can be trusted and so I disregard his performances.

Ryder's nationality is irrelevant. I don't live in the Commonwealth. He rides for a credible team. That's good enough for me.

DD.

4. Riders who are currently doping and have never been caught.

5. Riders who were done incorrectly for doping (and that's why they deny it).

frenchfighter

gsk82 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Which as we know is irrelevant as a week stage race is nothing compared to a GT in addition to the fact Contador deliberately is peaking for Giro and for Tour and the rest this year doesnt matter.

last time they both rode a gt fit froome destroyed him, to the extent that contador is now utterly obsessed with froome and can't ride without continually looking for him.

I guess you didn't watch the Vuelta 2014?
2013 Tour was an off one by his standards so pretty much irrelevant.

dolan_driver

inseine wrote:

4. Riders who are currently doping and have never been caught.

5. Riders who were done incorrectly for doping (and that's why they deny it).

Yep, and some would argue Contador is a No.5 but the fact is he failed that test. The substance was in his system, maybe by accident, but the evidence would indicate that the likelihood of that being the case is extremely remote.

DD.

DeVlaeminck

Ryder admitted doping when Rasmussen blew the lid on it - he didn't just come out and admit it voluntarily - and he suffered no punishment. He also probably knew or was advised that an admission - but only to what he was accused of already - would see him take on the David Millar role of victim rather than villain. I don't see what he has done as being in any way morally superior to Contador - if you dope and then fess up when you are caught or continue to deny it so what you still doped and you didn't admit it because of a guilty conscience you took a rational decision that the best way to clear your reputation was to admit and move on.

Paul 8v

Bo Duke wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

I'm sure this has been covered on the previous pages but did Astana not get the memo that the TTT was stage 1?

That's what I pointed out to the missus, lined up steaming up a steep climb with everyone else falling out of the back.... only Contador able to keep up...... frantic radio messages from base 'slow down, slow down....' .

Looks like we're back in the old days, these things don't just happen, they've been preparing all winter.

I don't really like to dwell on that side of the sport as there's plenty of others who can fill that void but Jesus Christ on this particular occasion it looks bloody odd. Out on our club ride yesterday there were many, many comments made on it but I won't put them on here!

frenchfighter

Wasn't that fast in comparison:

Madonna di Campiglio
2015:15,1 km@6,0%---35:45---average speed 25.34 km/h(Mikel Landa)-finish at Patascoss, 1725m
2013:11,8 km@5,9%---28:34---average speed 24.78 km/h(Ulissi-15 riders group)
1999:11,8 km@5,9%---25:01---average speed 28.30 km/h(Marco Pantani)-RECORD

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/05 ... na-di.html

+on the previous climb, the peloton went up only 20/30 or so seconds faster than Siutsou.

adr82

frenchfighter wrote:

Wasn't that fast in comparison:

Madonna di Campiglio
2015:15,1 km@6,0%---35:45---average speed 25.34 km/h(Mikel Landa)-finish at Patascoss, 1725m
2013:11,8 km@5,9%---28:34---average speed 24.78 km/h(Ulissi-15 riders group)
1999:11,8 km@5,9%---25:01---average speed 28.30 km/h(Marco Pantani)-RECORD

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/05 ... na-di.html

+on the previous climb, the peloton went up only 20/30 or so seconds faster than Siutsou.

OK, so in this set of stats, in addition to ignoring all the other variables that make these timings virtually meaningless (weather/wind, the stage route leading to the final climb, the position of each stage in the race, the difficulty of preceding stages, the way the stage was ridden, the number of riders in the group on the climb, etc), they're also comparing times from a climb that route changes apparently made 3.3k longer and slightly steeper than in previous visits? I don't think these figures really tell us anything about the level of the Astana performance either way.

frenchfighter

Good for you.

That's all I have to say to you on the matter as I have zero desire to go in some long circular discussion with you like I have witnessed on the stage 10 thread.