BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    ddraver wrote:
    Again...it's not about you. Read the thread.

    I've never had much interest in crosswords so cryptic clues are wasted on me. Please expand

    And while you are doing so perhaps you can also explain why or how the original point relates to the UK referendum?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Again...it's not about you. Read the thread.

    I've never had much interest in crosswords so cryptic clues are wasted on me. Please expand

    And while you are doing so perhaps you can also explain why or how the original point relates to the UK referendum?

    Wowee...
    PBlakeney wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Again...it's not about you. Read the thread.
    I think it is fairly certain that we will get a vote. :wink:

    I suppose you got involved in a way so it's a bit about you :wink: . I don't know how one applies for unemployment as an expat/immigrant in the UK as, obviously, I am not or will not be one...

    JSE is basically pittance though isnt it? Whereas I get 75% of my previous salary for the 3 months (1 year of work = 1 month benefit, but you can only claim for 3 months if you leave NL for another EU country, which I will do...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    It's interesting to see the difference between how you become eligible for Dutch benefits and UK benefits though.
    The thing is, the current Government could do that. Today.
    And previous governments could have done it too.
    Why don't/didn't they?

    In Cameron's sham negotiations he must have known they would not let him discriminate against EU citizens so all he had to do was make benefits based upon contribution. You think such a policy would get cheered to the rafters at Tory Conference so I really don't get why he did not do it.

    Same with Child Benefit paid to people whose children were in another EU state. Just change the rules so that the kids have to be in the UK.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    this is probably the best precis of the issues - well written and concise

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... eferendum/
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    the BHS scandal shows how much we need the EU, how someone can take 500m in dividends, leave a £600m black hole in a pension fund and sell for a £1 to a bankrupt and is now purchasing a multi million pound yacht, shows that we cannot Govern ourselves.

    We need some real employment protection rights and some decent governance and leaving the EU will take away the very few we have.

    So, Coopster, its 100% i ll vote remain.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    Lookyhere wrote:
    ...We need some real employment protection rights and some decent governance..
    No argument from here, but did you see France in the news last week?
    Not exactly a bed of roses on that front over there.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Lookyhere wrote:
    ...We need some real employment protection rights and some decent governance..
    No argument from here, but did you see France in the news last week?
    Not exactly a bed of roses on that front over there.

    Of course and there is always a balance to be struck, we are just too off balance, maybe the french are too much the other way, i dont know, we dont seem to have that sort of temperament, anymore.

    One thing i do realise is that a IDS/Boris/Fox government wouldnt give a 4X about workers/womens rights, the environment or anything else, we might care about.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    Lookyhere wrote:
    the BHS scandal shows how much we need the EU, how someone can take 500m in dividends, leave a £600m black hole in a pension fund and sell for a £1 to a bankrupt and is now purchasing a multi million pound yacht, shows that we cannot Govern ourselves.

    We need some real employment protection rights and some decent governance and leaving the EU will take away the very few we have.

    So, Coopster, its 100% i ll vote remain.
    How is the EU proposing to remedy the BHS 'issue'?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Yeah i'm not sure that's right? After all, we're part of the EU at the moment...
    _
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    So, you d both like less employment rights? better vote leave then.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I'm not saying that.

    I'm saying I'm not sure the EU has much to say, or indeed has any impact on, the BHS issue.

    BHS is just a case of the downside of capitalism. Everyone goes on about creation and innovation, but in order to have that you have to have destruction too. Can't have one without the other.

    UK high street is ferociously competitive, and UK shoppers get the reward for that. UK shoppers didn't shop at BHS, so it's gone under.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    Lookyhere wrote:
    So, you d both like less employment rights? better vote leave then.
    See what Rick said.

    Now how do you think the EU is addressing the BHS issue?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    UK high street is ferociously competitive, and UK shoppers get the reward for that. UK shoppers didn't shop at BHS, so it's gone under.
    I bet most of the people complaining are happy to use Amazon.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Probably yeah. It's pretty convenient and very cheap.

    They're usually things people want!
    _
  • FishFish
    FishFish Posts: 2,152
    Lookyhere wrote:
    the BHS scandal shows how much we need the EU, how someone can take 500m in dividends, leave a £600m black hole in a pension fund

    /quote]


    The pensions black hole is because of over generous pensions schemes, a low interest rate and an unreasonable accounting rule for the reporting of pension liabilities.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    UK high street is ferociously competitive, and UK shoppers get the reward for that. UK shoppers didn't shop at BHS, so it's gone under.
    I bet most of the people complaining are happy to use Amazon.

    What's the difference between Amazon and sir Philip Green?
    Dunno, neither pay taxes.

    Nowt to do with the EU that UK company law allows large scale asset stripping.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    orraloon wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    UK high street is ferociously competitive, and UK shoppers get the reward for that. UK shoppers didn't shop at BHS, so it's gone under.
    I bet most of the people complaining are happy to use Amazon.

    What's the difference between Amazon and sir Philip Green?
    Dunno, neither pay taxes.

    Nowt to do with the EU that UK company law allows large scale asset stripping.
    My point was that people shop away on Amazon and then moan about the high Street shops closing.
    Hypocrites.
    (To show how pernicious they are - I didn't put a link in there, it is automatic! :shock: )
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Gregger
    Gregger Posts: 71
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    this is probably the best precis of the issues - well written and concise

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... eferendum/


    My annual post
    That is a good summary, thanks for that link
    Damned if we stay in, more damned if we leave?
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    Amazon putting auto links in or Bike Radar getting some sort of affiliate payment for click through? Mind you it does the same with BHS.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    Gregger wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    this is probably the best precis of the issues - well written and concise

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... eferendum/


    My annual post
    That is a good summary, thanks for that link
    Damned if we stay in, more damned if we leave?

    Yep, thanks, that was good!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    I quite liked this one:
    "Brexit" would be the economic equivalent of quitting your job because you think you can get it back minus all the parts you don't like.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    JoeNobody wrote:
    I quite liked this one:
    "Brexit" would be the economic equivalent of quitting your job because you think you can get it back minus all the parts you don't like.
    Balance -
    Or, quitting one job in the hope of getting a better job.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    PBlakeney wrote:
    JoeNobody wrote:
    I quite liked this one:
    "Brexit" would be the economic equivalent of quitting your job because you think you can get it back minus all the parts you don't like.
    Balance -
    Or, quitting one job in the hope of getting a better job.

    With all the potential new employers knowing they have you over a barrel and can screw you over.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Balance -
    Or, quitting one job in the hope of getting a better job.
    With it being unlikely we'd get a better deal with the EU are the non-EU deals going to be better by enough to make us better off? In my opinion they won't, so we're either going to be doing just the same or worse than currently. It's just not worth it.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    JoeNobody wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Balance -
    Or, quitting one job in the hope of getting a better job.
    With it being unlikely we'd get a better deal with the EU are the non-EU deals going to be better by enough to make us better off? In my opinion they won't, so we're either going to be doing just the same or worse than currently. It's just not worth it.
    Balance again.
    The important bit is in red.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    The BHS thing really confuses me and I've seen it happen before. How can an unsuccessful company making losses pay out large wages and dividends and then fold. Seems like daylight robbery.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Balance again.
    The important bit is in red.
    Exactly, that's why I wrote it - so it's clear that it is my opinion.

    I think we ought to be able to agree that we're not going to get a deal from the EU that's better than we have currently, so the question is, what trade deals are there still to be done that could overcome the changes with the EU relationship? I don't have the answer to that, perhaps someone here does? My impression is that there aren't all that many, which leads to the question - could we improve the terms of existing deals with non-EU countries and, if so, how long would it take? As far as I can tell, from what I've read/heard, these (re)negotiations will take years - that's years of uncertainty that will have a material effect on our economy (already is in fact), and on my financial wellbeing (and that of my fellow Brits). So, again (in my opinion), it's just not worth it.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    The BHS thing really confuses me and I've seen it happen before. How can an unsuccessful company making losses pay out large wages and dividends and then fold. Seems like daylight robbery.

    At the moment most of the oil & gas companies are sacking people while simultaneously borrowing large sums of money to allow them to continue paying dividends (and thus prop up their share price).

    I don't have a problem with companies laying off workers if they are losing money, or with companies paying out big dividends and wages to their bosses if they are making money - but paying out lots of money to managers/shareholders while at the same time losing money and sacking people doesn't seem very moral.
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Although I have concern with regards to Brexit - with the correct political will from all parties and society collectively rolling up it sleeves it could be beneficial. However, the likes of Gove, Johnson and Patel will be pushed to the fore in running this country if Brexit was to occur, I would have very serious misgivings as to which direction they will want to steer.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,345
    JoeNobody wrote:
    So, again (in my opinion), it's just not worth it.
    And that ain't sexy. There's the rub.

    Essentially all Remain can say is "We know it's not perfect, but it's kinda working." That's a hard sell, however you package it.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois

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