BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Still getting confused about attitudes of different governments towards British tourists?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:rick_chasey said:Rees-Mogg went on to suggest that Britons might believe “going to Portugal is more fun because the Portuguese want us to go and the French are being difficult”.
“Why should we go and spend our hard-earned money in France if the French don’t want us?” he asked, before insisting he was not calling for a boycott.
Stevo is JRM & ICMFP
JRM has got this one right, mind you. Why go where you're not welcome? Go somewhere that wants you to be there and welcomes you. It's common sense.
Still not acknowledging that Dover is different from airports then?
Mind you, did JRM mention Macron?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Still getting confused about attitudes of different governments towards British tourists?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:rick_chasey said:Rees-Mogg went on to suggest that Britons might believe “going to Portugal is more fun because the Portuguese want us to go and the French are being difficult”.
“Why should we go and spend our hard-earned money in France if the French don’t want us?” he asked, before insisting he was not calling for a boycott.
Stevo is JRM & ICMFP
JRM has got this one right, mind you. Why go where you're not welcome? Go somewhere that wants you to be there and welcomes you. It's common sense.
Still not acknowledging that Dover is different from airports then?
Mind you, did JRM mention Macron?
Spain? Can you acknowledge they've gone all jobsworth too? And our passports aren't the free-range pass that they used to be?
To spell it out: the border at Calais is unique. It worked before as the French could wave people through when it was busy. They can't do that now, thanks to rules the UK agreed to.
Still, I don't care too much, as the airport welcome remains pretty much the same (apart from a stamp in the passport), and there are no Brits down here that I can see. Suits me fine.0 -
Come on, Stevo. This is cobblers. The French in tourist areas remain as charming to the Brits as they ever were and will bend over backwards to help you have a good time on hols (and increase the amount you spend on their services.)Stevo_666 said:rick_chasey said:Rees-Mogg went on to suggest that Britons might believe “going to Portugal is more fun because the Portuguese want us to go and the French are being difficult”.
“Why should we go and spend our hard-earned money in France if the French don’t want us?” he asked, before insisting he was not calling for a boycott.
Stevo is JRM & ICMFP
JRM has got this one right, mind you. Why go where you're not welcome? Go somewhere that wants you to be there and welcomes you. It's common sense.
JRM is a twit of the highest order and surely you appreciate that your are trashing your own credibility by giving his idiotic ideas houseroom. Brexit has made it harder to go on hols to the EU. There is no disputing this and there is nothing good about it at all, unless you’re a French border officer with a thing about stamping passports.0 -
It really is like John Cleese's Black Knight: downplaying each degradation of the freedoms we chose to inflict upon ourselves, and actually saying it's all the other party's fault and how silly they are to impose the rules that have been there throughout the process for all to see.
It also reminds me of a scene I witnessed at Charles de Gaulle airport - a British family trying to argue with the official who stopped them in the security queue because their cabin bags were too big... while the wife loudly insisted they be allowed through because they might miss their plane, the official just kept on repeating that they go back and check the offending bags into the hold. As the wife got more and more animated, the official didn't lose his cool one bit, and just insisted they wouldn't be let through. In the end, they had no choice. They went back. I'm sure in the mind of the wife, it was all the French official's fault, not the fact that they had tried to get big bags on the plane.0 -
I'm not sure you are an independent observer though and you view everything through grey tinted glasses.briantrumpet said:It really is like John Cleese's Black Knight: downplaying each degradation of the freedoms we chose to inflict upon ourselves, and actually saying it's all the other party's fault and how silly they are to impose the rules that have been there throughout the process for all to see.
It also reminds me of a scene I witnessed at Charles de Gaulle airport - a British family trying to argue with the official who stopped them in the security queue because their cabin bags were too big... while the wife loudly insisted they be allowed through because they might miss their plane, the official just kept on repeating that they go back and check the offending bags into the hold. As the wife got more and more animated, the official didn't lose his cool one bit, and just insisted they wouldn't be let through. In the end, they had no choice. They went back. I'm sure in the mind of the wife, it was all the French official's fault, not the fact that they had tried to get big bags on the plane.0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver1 -
FTSE darling Games Workshop not mincing its words
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TheBigBean said:
I'm not sure you are an independent observer though and you view everything through grey tinted glasses.briantrumpet said:It really is like John Cleese's Black Knight: downplaying each degradation of the freedoms we chose to inflict upon ourselves, and actually saying it's all the other party's fault and how silly they are to impose the rules that have been there throughout the process for all to see.
It also reminds me of a scene I witnessed at Charles de Gaulle airport - a British family trying to argue with the official who stopped them in the security queue because their cabin bags were too big... while the wife loudly insisted they be allowed through because they might miss their plane, the official just kept on repeating that they go back and check the offending bags into the hold. As the wife got more and more animated, the official didn't lose his cool one bit, and just insisted they wouldn't be let through. In the end, they had no choice. They went back. I'm sure in the mind of the wife, it was all the French official's fault, not the fact that they had tried to get big bags on the plane.
Any particular points you disagree with? Obviously having some of my rights taken away has affected me, but trying to make out that what we've ended up with is anything but a self-inflicted shîtshow is looking more and more desperate.0 -
France is just big and in the way when I'm driving to Italy, can we just get rid of it if they don't want us?Stevo_666 said:
JRM has got this one right, mind you. Why go where you're not welcome? Go somewhere that wants you to be there and welcomes you. It's common sense.0 -
Maybe the Brexoptimists can debunk all/some/just one of these observations:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/03/spiralling-inflation-crops-left-in-the-field-and-travel-chaos-10-reasons-brexit-has-been-disastrous-for-britainIn the face of Westminster’s mixture of silence and forced optimism, Brexit is having a measurably dire effect on just about all of us. A recent survey done by the opinion pollsters Ipsos showed that the proportion of Britons who think the UK’s exit from the EU has made their daily life worse has gone up from 30% in June 2021 to 45% now, a figure that includes just under a quarter of people who voted leave. Amid the aftershocks of our national lockdowns, these mounting problems are becoming ever more obvious. And so, by way of filling the informational gap left by our politicians – and, indeed, most of the media – this strange, baking-hot summer seems like a good time to set out just some of Brexit’s apparently endless downsides.0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
If any of you are interested in business, the story behind the meteoric rise of Games Workshop is really fantastic.
The financial performance of it is sensational.0 -
Brexit promised preventing the free movement of labour which was unfairly suppressing UK wages.
But now there's inflation due to labour shortages, you can't have a pay rise and Union leaders are public enemy number one for asking for one
You've been had.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
tailwindhome said:
Brexit promised preventing the free movement of labour which was unfairly suppressing UK wages.
But now there's inflation due to labour shortages, you can't have a pay rise and Union leaders are public enemy number one for asking for one
You've been had.
The UK has suffered the supposed fate of Edward II at Berkeley Castle, several times over. And all the b@stards are doing is putting the pokers back in the fire.0 -
Not a good comparison as the current evidence is Edward the second wasn’t murdered with a red poker or anything. Survived to old age living in Italy.briantrumpet said:tailwindhome said:Brexit promised preventing the free movement of labour which was unfairly suppressing UK wages.
But now there's inflation due to labour shortages, you can't have a pay rise and Union leaders are public enemy number one for asking for one
You've been had.
The UK has suffered the supposed fate of Edward II at Berkeley Castle, several times over. And all the b@stards are doing is putting the pokers back in the fire.0 -
To be fair a large proportion voted for the poker and then when given a potential last minute reprieve bent over and asked for a bigger one.briantrumpet said:tailwindhome said:Brexit promised preventing the free movement of labour which was unfairly suppressing UK wages.
But now there's inflation due to labour shortages, you can't have a pay rise and Union leaders are public enemy number one for asking for one
You've been had.
The UK has suffered the supposed fate of Edward II at Berkeley Castle, several times over. And all the b@stards are doing is putting the pokers back in the fire.0 -
webboo said:
Not a good comparison as the current evidence is Edward the second wasn’t murdered with a red poker or anything. Survived to old age living in Italy.briantrumpet said:tailwindhome said:Brexit promised preventing the free movement of labour which was unfairly suppressing UK wages.
But now there's inflation due to labour shortages, you can't have a pay rise and Union leaders are public enemy number one for asking for one
You've been had.
The UK has suffered the supposed fate of Edward II at Berkeley Castle, several times over. And all the b@stards are doing is putting the pokers back in the fire.
Oi, don't start going all historically accurate on me. It was the only part of Berkeley Castle I found interesting as a 10-year-old.0 -
In case you didn’t think he was fash0 -
Rick none of the people you want to convince of this stuff are going to click through and read a twitter thread. Use thread reader or something and post the lot.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
No need to post an entire speech. Farage fans presumably ought to be interested in what he said to the Republicans.0
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Narrator: They weren't.rick_chasey said:No need to post an entire speech. Farage fans presumably ought to be interested in what he said to the Republicans.
At least not through the lens of some leftie journo.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I have never heard of thread reader but please keep pushing him on the pointpangolin said:Rick none of the people you want to convince of this stuff are going to click through and read a twitter thread. Use thread reader or something and post the lot.
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You get this:surrey_commuter said:
I have never heard of thread reader but please keep pushing him on the pointpangolin said:Rick none of the people you want to convince of this stuff are going to click through and read a twitter thread. Use thread reader or something and post the lot.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1555957274157486080.htmlNigel Farage has spoken and it might be good to listen to the things he said, which CPAC Dallas cheered to the absolute rafters
Here's what he said:
In this thread I am going to shorten quotes for clarity. It's the only way to make this thread coherent
I am being careful not to lose meaning or misrepresent Farage's words when I do this
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we are under attack!," Farage opens. "The threat is not external! The biggest threat we face is from within. The biggest threat we face is the fifth column in all our countries that is attempting to destroy the family unit, Judeo-Christian Culture..."
"Attempting to destroy our constitution!" Farage thunders--somewhat bafflingly, as I do not believe we share a constitution. "Attempting to destroy our pride in who we are and what we are."
The way that They are doing it," Farage says, ""is primarily through the educational institutions. Our children are being indoctrinated
"Our universities have become Madrassas of Marxism and it's got to change!"
Farage moves onto the media. He points at the bullpen and screams: "You're fake news! Fake news!" Everyone cheers and finaly, FINALLY I am living my dream of being called fake news by Nigel Farage
"Our kids are being told from a young age if you are Black, you are a victim. If you're white, you're an oppressor...none of this is aimed at harmony. This is not accidental."
I wrote about the logic behind that common argument and where it goes wrong:
Farage describes Critical Race Theory as "this terrible virus, worse than anywhere else in teh world. This is a Marxist attempt to break Western civilization! A Marxist attempt to destroy everything we are. And we are going to fight back hard against it!"
ENORMOUS applause
I have heard "western civilization" more at this CPAC than at the other two CPACs I've been to combined. We are back to, best-case scenario, civic nationalism after the chilling effect of January 6th
Back to Farage's speech. "Part of the problem is that our conservative parties, our conservative movements, have allowed all of this to be done. basically through cowardice," he says. "Through fear. People do not want to be called nasty names"
Farage says a lot of "conservatives" aren't actually conservative."You've got your RINOs. But didn't the primaries go the right way last week?"
Conservatives aren't hung up on the Kansas abortion result, they are elated that so many Trump-endorsed candidates won last Tuesday
Farage lists several insufficiently conservative international leaders, including Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison of Australia. He says that setbacks at the ballot box are due to parties being insufficiently conservative and the audience sure does like that talking point
"This is the battleground!" Farage thunders to mounting applause. "If America falls, we all fall. But I know I'm talking to perhaps the most important group of people that have ever ssembled in one room. Because you are the footsoldiers!"
Farage: "This battle on behalf not just of America but on behalf of the whole of the free world to save everything our forebearers built. Designed and defended against the world!"
The crowd leaps to their feet. The ovation lasts for at least two minutes. Ecstatic
Nationalism in no way precludes alliances with fellow nationalists in other countries. They too want closed borders, they too understand that nations are distinct
CPAC is building an international coalition of nationalists and it's working pretty well
Farage arrives, as nearly every speaker at CPAC has done eventually, at trans issues:
"Don't think the vast majority in yoru country or mine think we ought to refer to pregnant people." A ripple of laughter.
Most people, Farage says, don't support trans women in women's sports
"Steve Bannon said last night--and isn't Steve Bannon doing a gerat job?" Farage asks the crowd, and they cheer enthusiastically. The big Bannon fans aren't even in here--they're out in Media Row, watching a live taping of the War Room
"[Bannon] said Kari Lake is the future of the movement and I think he's right," Farage said
For context, Kari Lake recently won the primar for Arizona Governor, but what makes her interesting is that she claimed a rigged election almost before the results were in, then won
Here is an article that misses the point about Kari Lake spectacularly
The narrative is that Lake successfully pushed back against a rigged election and won and JESUS CHRIST. Jesus
Bannon is right about the future, I think. He's always been a clever boy
"To stand up against the establishment, to stand up against the Deep State, the globalists, all the things, takes man or woman of exceptional courge. And I believe that you in this country are very lucky to have [such] a man..."
Farage endorses Trump for 2024 and the applause Farage recieves for this eclipses even the ovation he received re: America's responsibility to save the free world
He is the Leader. The Man
DeSantis will run if Trump dies. If Trump does not die he is the 2024 nominee
Farage concludes by telling the audience that Brexit passed because people who don't usually vote showed up to vote, and that this is how the conservatives can win in 2024
"There is more to do. Are you ready for that fight?"
The crowd is ready for that fight. Farage leaves the stage to tumultuous applause
The end
(If you're interested in more fine-grained notes on today's CPAC first of all what is wrong with you and secondly you can find it here:- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
if only
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
keep bullying him until he does thispangolin said:
You get this:surrey_commuter said:
I have never heard of thread reader but please keep pushing him on the pointpangolin said:Rick none of the people you want to convince of this stuff are going to click through and read a twitter thread. Use thread reader or something and post the lot.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1555957274157486080.htmlNigel Farage has spoken and it might be good to listen to the things he said, which CPAC Dallas cheered to the absolute rafters
Here's what he said:
In this thread I am going to shorten quotes for clarity. It's the only way to make this thread coherent
I am being careful not to lose meaning or misrepresent Farage's words when I do this
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we are under attack!," Farage opens. "The threat is not external! The biggest threat we face is from within. The biggest threat we face is the fifth column in all our countries that is attempting to destroy the family unit, Judeo-Christian Culture..."
"Attempting to destroy our constitution!" Farage thunders--somewhat bafflingly, as I do not believe we share a constitution. "Attempting to destroy our pride in who we are and what we are."
The way that They are doing it," Farage says, ""is primarily through the educational institutions. Our children are being indoctrinated
"Our universities have become Madrassas of Marxism and it's got to change!"
Farage moves onto the media. He points at the bullpen and screams: "You're fake news! Fake news!" Everyone cheers and finaly, FINALLY I am living my dream of being called fake news by Nigel Farage
"Our kids are being told from a young age if you are Black, you are a victim. If you're white, you're an oppressor...none of this is aimed at harmony. This is not accidental."
I wrote about the logic behind that common argument and where it goes wrong:
Farage describes Critical Race Theory as "this terrible virus, worse than anywhere else in teh world. This is a Marxist attempt to break Western civilization! A Marxist attempt to destroy everything we are. And we are going to fight back hard against it!"
ENORMOUS applause
I have heard "western civilization" more at this CPAC than at the other two CPACs I've been to combined. We are back to, best-case scenario, civic nationalism after the chilling effect of January 6th
Back to Farage's speech. "Part of the problem is that our conservative parties, our conservative movements, have allowed all of this to be done. basically through cowardice," he says. "Through fear. People do not want to be called nasty names"
Farage says a lot of "conservatives" aren't actually conservative."You've got your RINOs. But didn't the primaries go the right way last week?"
Conservatives aren't hung up on the Kansas abortion result, they are elated that so many Trump-endorsed candidates won last Tuesday
Farage lists several insufficiently conservative international leaders, including Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison of Australia. He says that setbacks at the ballot box are due to parties being insufficiently conservative and the audience sure does like that talking point
"This is the battleground!" Farage thunders to mounting applause. "If America falls, we all fall. But I know I'm talking to perhaps the most important group of people that have ever ssembled in one room. Because you are the footsoldiers!"
Farage: "This battle on behalf not just of America but on behalf of the whole of the free world to save everything our forebearers built. Designed and defended against the world!"
The crowd leaps to their feet. The ovation lasts for at least two minutes. Ecstatic
Nationalism in no way precludes alliances with fellow nationalists in other countries. They too want closed borders, they too understand that nations are distinct
CPAC is building an international coalition of nationalists and it's working pretty well
Farage arrives, as nearly every speaker at CPAC has done eventually, at trans issues:
"Don't think the vast majority in yoru country or mine think we ought to refer to pregnant people." A ripple of laughter.
Most people, Farage says, don't support trans women in women's sports
"Steve Bannon said last night--and isn't Steve Bannon doing a gerat job?" Farage asks the crowd, and they cheer enthusiastically. The big Bannon fans aren't even in here--they're out in Media Row, watching a live taping of the War Room
"[Bannon] said Kari Lake is the future of the movement and I think he's right," Farage said
For context, Kari Lake recently won the primar for Arizona Governor, but what makes her interesting is that she claimed a rigged election almost before the results were in, then won
Here is an article that misses the point about Kari Lake spectacularly
The narrative is that Lake successfully pushed back against a rigged election and won and JESUS CHRIST. Jesus
Bannon is right about the future, I think. He's always been a clever boy
"To stand up against the establishment, to stand up against the Deep State, the globalists, all the things, takes man or woman of exceptional courge. And I believe that you in this country are very lucky to have [such] a man..."
Farage endorses Trump for 2024 and the applause Farage recieves for this eclipses even the ovation he received re: America's responsibility to save the free world
He is the Leader. The Man
DeSantis will run if Trump dies. If Trump does not die he is the 2024 nominee
Farage concludes by telling the audience that Brexit passed because people who don't usually vote showed up to vote, and that this is how the conservatives can win in 2024
"There is more to do. Are you ready for that fight?"
The crowd is ready for that fight. Farage leaves the stage to tumultuous applause
The end
(If you're interested in more fine-grained notes on today's CPAC first of all what is wrong with you and secondly you can find it here:0 -
Even the Telegraph is starting to wake up to Project Reality:Few would dispute that this is the grim reality of Britain’s labour market today. There are an estimated 1.3m job vacancies, and for the first time, not enough people looking for work to fill them. It is the greatest employment crisis in decades and it threatens to prolong the country’s economic malaise.
The elephant in the room is to what extent our departure from the European Union is to blame. It is one of many unintended consequences of Brexit that doctrinal Brexiteers prefer not to confront.
It is no secret that leaving the EU was meant to address some of the longstanding costs of mass immigration: significant social change; pressure on public services and housing; and, this Government’s biggest bugbear – wage suppression, and therefore low productivity. These were genuine concerns that had been ignored for too long.
The problem is that while Brexit has certainly blown up the labour market, it may not have done so in the way its proponents intended. There are not just big holes in vital industries. Employers are also struggling to fill them as a direct result of being outside the EU.
This should hardly be a surprise. Brexit not only ended free movement, new visa rules also made it harder to hire people to plug the gaps. But it takes time to properly measure the effects of such dramatic shifts. According to an extensive study from a group of Oxford University academics, the problem is particularly pronounced in low-wage sectors.
Again, this is hardly earth-shattering. Entire areas of the economy had long been propped up by migrant workers on low pay – there was just the same reluctance to talk about it. But the seriousness of the problem for certain sectors is genuinely alarming.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/16/post-brexit-labour-market-malfunctioning-mess/0 -
I am really struggling with that article.briantrumpet said:Even the Telegraph is starting to wake up to Project Reality:
Few would dispute that this is the grim reality of Britain’s labour market today. There are an estimated 1.3m job vacancies, and for the first time, not enough people looking for work to fill them. It is the greatest employment crisis in decades and it threatens to prolong the country’s economic malaise.
The elephant in the room is to what extent our departure from the European Union is to blame. It is one of many unintended consequences of Brexit that doctrinal Brexiteers prefer not to confront.
It is no secret that leaving the EU was meant to address some of the longstanding costs of mass immigration: significant social change; pressure on public services and housing; and, this Government’s biggest bugbear – wage suppression, and therefore low productivity. These were genuine concerns that had been ignored for too long.
The problem is that while Brexit has certainly blown up the labour market, it may not have done so in the way its proponents intended. There are not just big holes in vital industries. Employers are also struggling to fill them as a direct result of being outside the EU.
This should hardly be a surprise. Brexit not only ended free movement, new visa rules also made it harder to hire people to plug the gaps. But it takes time to properly measure the effects of such dramatic shifts. According to an extensive study from a group of Oxford University academics, the problem is particularly pronounced in low-wage sectors.
Again, this is hardly earth-shattering. Entire areas of the economy had long been propped up by migrant workers on low pay – there was just the same reluctance to talk about it. But the seriousness of the problem for certain sectors is genuinely alarming.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/16/post-brexit-labour-market-malfunctioning-mess/
Is it a long winded way of saying that they did not consider the downsides of what they wanted?0 -
Who was it we were having constant discussions that limiting the amount of available labour wouldn't actually increase people's prosperity, and that it was a lump-of-labour fallacy?0
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Hahaha lack of people to do jobs an "unintended consequence". Nobody could have predicted this!- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
surrey_commuter said:
I am really struggling with that article.briantrumpet said:Even the Telegraph is starting to wake up to Project Reality:
Few would dispute that this is the grim reality of Britain’s labour market today. There are an estimated 1.3m job vacancies, and for the first time, not enough people looking for work to fill them. It is the greatest employment crisis in decades and it threatens to prolong the country’s economic malaise.
The elephant in the room is to what extent our departure from the European Union is to blame. It is one of many unintended consequences of Brexit that doctrinal Brexiteers prefer not to confront.
It is no secret that leaving the EU was meant to address some of the longstanding costs of mass immigration: significant social change; pressure on public services and housing; and, this Government’s biggest bugbear – wage suppression, and therefore low productivity. These were genuine concerns that had been ignored for too long.
The problem is that while Brexit has certainly blown up the labour market, it may not have done so in the way its proponents intended. There are not just big holes in vital industries. Employers are also struggling to fill them as a direct result of being outside the EU.
This should hardly be a surprise. Brexit not only ended free movement, new visa rules also made it harder to hire people to plug the gaps. But it takes time to properly measure the effects of such dramatic shifts. According to an extensive study from a group of Oxford University academics, the problem is particularly pronounced in low-wage sectors.
Again, this is hardly earth-shattering. Entire areas of the economy had long been propped up by migrant workers on low pay – there was just the same reluctance to talk about it. But the seriousness of the problem for certain sectors is genuinely alarming.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/16/post-brexit-labour-market-malfunctioning-mess/
Is it a long winded way of saying that they did not consider the downsides of what they wanted?
Yes, kind of.
But I think there's a significance that there's a grudging admission that Project Fear has turned out to be not too far from reality, and that Unicorn Optimism isn't going to solve the problems that Brexit has created. And also a significance that it's in the Telegraph.
Even if it takes forty years to come back to the Thatcher notion that reducing trading barriers with your nearest and wealthiest market is a good thing for business, it's worth the effort.0
