BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It recovered because previously EU only exporters were not counted. This believed to be masking a far bigger drop in like for like numberskingstongraham said:
The article was about it slightly recovering in jan22 after falling since April 21surrey_commuter said:
they did not previously have to register as exporters if only selling to the EU so very thin gruel even by Brexit win standardsTheBigBean said:
A bit more nuance? This is the Brexit thread. Everything should be an extreme take.surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.0 -
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument0 -
Read that back to yourself mate.surrey_commuter said:
we chose to have export checks on our exports and we chose to not have checks on our imports.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
I believe we chose not to check imports because it would be bad for the economy.
I don't get your problem as this is what you voted for0 -
Let me spell it out to you, a small majority of simpletons voted to leave the EU. As a result the EU now have the right to check imports at customs, their imports are exports from a country outside the EU, as we are now. This was voted for and apparently people wanted this because they knew what they were voting for. We also have the right to check imports and apply controls, or not. This is also up to us being free from the shackles of the EU, apparently this freedom is another thing the voters wanted. So, SC is saying if you voted for Brexit the current situation is as a result of your voting for Brexit.john80 said:
Read that back to yourself mate.surrey_commuter said:
we chose to have export checks on our exports and we chose to not have checks on our imports.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
I believe we chose not to check imports because it would be bad for the economy.
I don't get your problem as this is what you voted for1 -
John - the customs checks are exactly what you were arguing yourself when you said staying in the CU was not proper Brexit.
By that logic you want to be asking why the UK *isn’t* checking.
I don’t understand what you were expecting when the CU and SM were left?0 -
Let me try another way.john80 said:
Read that back to yourself mate.surrey_commuter said:
we chose to have export checks on our exports and we chose to not have checks on our imports.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
I believe we chose not to check imports because it would be bad for the economy.
I don't get your problem as this is what you voted for
What did you think the impact of leaving the SM/CU was going to be?0 -
I agree this is a good question for the current government.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
Why can't the UK afford to impose those restrictions if the EU can? That's what they say the people voted for.0 -
I am sure Rick can cut and paste his answer on proportionality.kingstongraham said:
I agree this is a good question for the current government.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
Why can't the UK afford to impose those restrictions if the EU can? That's what they say the people voted for.
I actually think a gradual tightening of the rules will allow the economy to avoid another major negative shock so the current policy on imports is probably a good idea.0 -
Are you answering on behalf of the government? I'm not convinced their answer would be "because we need them more than they need us".surrey_commuter said:
I am sure Rick can cut and paste his answer on proportionality.kingstongraham said:
I agree this is a good question for the current government.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
Why can't the UK afford to impose those restrictions if the EU can? That's what they say the people voted for.
I actually think a gradual tightening of the rules will allow the economy to avoid another major negative shock so the current policy on imports is probably a good idea.0 -
Their actions speak louder than words. Optics are their primary considerationkingstongraham said:
Are you answering on behalf of the government? I'm not convinced their answer would be "because we need them more than they need us".surrey_commuter said:
I am sure Rick can cut and paste his answer on proportionality.kingstongraham said:
I agree this is a good question for the current government.john80 said:
Maybe you should question why there is still asymmetry in the rules regarding the export of goods to the UK versus the other way. That is a good question for the current government.rick_chasey said:Surely a Brexiter here wants to defend Brexit? A third of exporters gone. Is it worth it?
Why can't the UK afford to impose those restrictions if the EU can? That's what they say the people voted for.
I actually think a gradual tightening of the rules will allow the economy to avoid another major negative shock so the current policy on imports is probably a good idea.0 -
What is the PM doing in a war Britain is explicitly not fighting that requires him to stay in his position?0
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Also from Danny Finkelstein:rick_chasey said:What is the PM doing in a war Britain is explicitly not fighting that requires him to stay in his position?
I do not believe that Britain changing its prime minister would make the slightest difference to the conduct or outcome of the war in Ukraine. I am confident that an alternative Conservative prime minister would carry on the policy of the government with exactly the same panache and effectiveness. In any case, the struggle with Russia is likely to go on for years. Suggesting we cannot change prime minister while it proceeds will prove impractical.
It's all just trying to bore the press and public into submission. Remember what happened when he couldn't afford his own renovations?0 -
He has no shame so he is not going to resign.rick_chasey said:What is the PM doing in a war Britain is explicitly not fighting that requires him to stay in his position?
He will do and say anything toget him through that day, that week and that month.
No matter how bleak the outlook I do not believe he will ever resign because he will always believe in a last minute reprieve. And in fairness when you look at Covid and Ukraine his strategy of playing for time and trusting to luck pays off.0 -
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.0 -
So from the first article we have the HMRC figures.Stevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell 33 per cent to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to new data from HMRC.
And from the second article.the Institute of Export & International Trade shows a pick up in January 2022 of the 12 month average for the number of businesses exporting from the UK compared to December 2021.
Hope we can all see that a drop over the year 20-21 does not contradict in any way a small rise over one month 12/21-01/22.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
By definition they would not appear in those numbers.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.0 -
The graph would show a drop in numbers.kingstongraham said:
By definition they would not appear in those numbers.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Here's the graph - where's the big drop?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No it wouldn't.Stevo_666 said:
The graph would show a drop in numbers.kingstongraham said:
By definition they would not appear in those numbers.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
The article you linked to explains why.0 -
Different time frames so it wouldn't be in the report.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
The other report was based on HMRC data. This seems to cover the right area.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/2020-uk-importer-and-exporter-population
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/customs-importer-and-exporter-population-2021
Clearly not quite the same dataset as the CityAM article which quoted different figures - The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell 33 per cent to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to new data from HMRC. - but the general direction of travel are similar.
Clearly the Institute of Exporters or whatever they are called are counting in a different way given that we have two apparently conflicting datasets.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In a graph that shows numbers of UK exporters, a drop in numbers of those exporters would be reflected in the graph. Very obvious. Your denial of what is plain and clear is very good - have you considered a job as a Russian government spokesman?kingstongraham said:
No it wouldn't.Stevo_666 said:
The graph would show a drop in numbers.kingstongraham said:
By definition they would not appear in those numbers.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
The article you linked to explains why."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm asking you to address the figures in the report and graph that I posted. What are your thoughts on that?rjsterry said:
Different time frames so it wouldn't be in the report.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
The other report was based on HMRC data. This seems to cover the right area.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/2020-uk-importer-and-exporter-population
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/customs-importer-and-exporter-population-2021
Clearly not quite the same dataset as the CityAM article which quoted different figures - The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell 33 per cent to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to new data from HMRC. - but the general direction of travel are similar.
Clearly the Institute of Exporters or whatever they are called are counting in a different way given that we have two apparently conflicting datasets."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo you know the graphs just represent the data collected and they aren’t the truth right?
Are you really gonna sit here and say it’s not impacting the export industry seriously when industry leaders are saying exactly that?
Argue the dots on the graph if you want. You're in fantasy land if you think it isn't negatively affecting the economy. All economic logic and sense would say so, and the data says so unless you really fight hard to cherry pick it.
The BoE, OFS, OBR, ONS, IFS all say it is a real drag on the economy and a problem for exporters. Just get over it.0 -
It shows a change in the what qualifies as an exporter as explained in the report. Aside from that it shows the numbers to be pretty steady which is in pretty strong contrast to the government's own figures. So either they are measuring different things which only superficially appear to be the same (most likely), or one of them is wrong.Stevo_666 said:
I'm asking you to address the figures in the report and graph that I posted. What are your thoughts on that?rjsterry said:
Different time frames so it wouldn't be in the report.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
The other report was based on HMRC data. This seems to cover the right area.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/2020-uk-importer-and-exporter-population
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/customs-importer-and-exporter-population-2021
Clearly not quite the same dataset as the CityAM article which quoted different figures - The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell 33 per cent to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to new data from HMRC. - but the general direction of travel are similar.
Clearly the Institute of Exporters or whatever they are called are counting in a different way given that we have two apparently conflicting datasets.
This seems to be the explanation you are after.
For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
A one-month increase at the end of a year of overall decline fits both articles.
I think the HMRC advice is good.
In a response to the findings, a spokesperson for HMRC told City A.M. today: “We have continually advised caution when comparing statistical trade data post-January 2021.”1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
*Customs checks on the UK border are exactly what people were asking for when they were asking to leave the customs union.*0
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As your link clearly says, UK companies that sold to the EU before 2021 were not considered "exporters". Quote: "As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters".Stevo_666 said:
In a graph that shows numbers of UK exporters, a drop in numbers of those exporters would be reflected in the graph. Very obvious. Your denial of what is plain and clear is very good - have you considered a job as a Russian government spokesman?kingstongraham said:
No it wouldn't.Stevo_666 said:
The graph would show a drop in numbers.kingstongraham said:
By definition they would not appear in those numbers.Stevo_666 said:
I'm talking about the claimed disappearance of 1/3 of all British exporters in the Tweet linked by Brian. Can you show me any reference to that in the report or any data in the report that remotely supports that?surrey_commuter said:
as I am in a good moodStevo_666 said:
Show me where it supports in any way the alleged disappearance of one third of UK exporters. (Hint: look at the graphs in the section labelled 'Counts of UK exporters' and also 'Exporter revenue' where you will see nothing of the sort).surrey_commuter said:
Patronising? Do you know what it means?😀Stevo_666 said:
I did, thanks. What's your point, apart from trying to be patronising?surrey_commuter said:
you should read that articleStevo_666 said:
Data from the institute of Export and International Trade says otherwise rather clearly.briantrumpet said:ddraver said:Surprised Pikachu face...not
Cheer up... too late to do anything about it now.
Except to say "Told you so."
https://export.org.uk/news/594836/New-monitor-shows-boost-in-number-of-UK-exporters.htm
So cheer up, as you say.
Read paras 3 and 4 and you will see the article does not support your argument
Have you read the report?
Even so, the picture overall is mixed. As a result of the end of the transition period changing the nature of goods and service movements between Great Britain and the EU so that they became exports, the Exporter Monitor data showed a near-doubling of the number of exporters, and accordingly, their revenues and their employees in February 2021.
This is still working through the data. For example, the increases in January this year compare to major drops in the numbers of exporters in January 2021 as a result of Brexit uncertainty; and while the increase in January this year is welcome, it is insufficient in itself to reverse a downward trend evident since April 2021.
The article you linked to explains why.
So if a company shipped to the EU in 2020, and they stopped in 2021, they would not ever have been considered as "exporters" for that graph.
Therefore, that decline would have happened to numbers that are not on that graph.
Hope that explains clearly enough!0
