BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Well turns out I've been misunderstanding that expression for a while 😶Pross said:
Exactly, vote for the under-achieving liberal or let in a borderline neo-Nazi. That's pretty much the definition of Hobson's choice as I understand it i.e. portrayed as a choice when there isn't one really.rjsterry said:
Oh come on it's not even remotely difficult. One option has not achieved everything he promised, the other positions herself between UKIP and the BNP and had a picture of her and Putin in her campaign literature.Pross said:Not just the UK with Hobson's choice then.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Did you think you got a biscuit? 🤣rjsterry said:
Well turns out I've been misunderstanding that expression for a while 😶Pross said:
Exactly, vote for the under-achieving liberal or let in a borderline neo-Nazi. That's pretty much the definition of Hobson's choice as I understand it i.e. portrayed as a choice when there isn't one really.rjsterry said:
Oh come on it's not even remotely difficult. One option has not achieved everything he promised, the other positions herself between UKIP and the BNP and had a picture of her and Putin in her campaign literature.Pross said:Not just the UK with Hobson's choice then.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).0
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He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
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Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.0 -
rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
Maybe he just calculated, given Johnson's record, that he reckoned he too was above trivialities such as probity.0 -
I would like to point out, for the record, that the treasury response to the pandemic, with a few lowlights, was, in general, the right thing to do.
I am OK with giving him praise for opening the chequebook as it was not a given they would, especially given the previous decade from the same government.
Given the absolute horror of an economic situation and the limited impact of it (it was as near as you can get to economic Armageddon without an actual war), the economy has survived remarkably well and that is in large part to the Treasury policies.
We ought to give them the thumbs up for that, and then smack em for the travesty that is this budget.
I don't really get it - the logic that made the pandemic response would dictate the opposite of what Sunak is trying to do now.0 -
people earning less than £30k will be better offrick_chasey said:
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.0 -
I still think the GFC was closer to economic armageddonrick_chasey said:I would like to point out, for the record, that the treasury response to the pandemic, with a few lowlights, was, in general, the right thing to do.
I am OK with giving him praise for opening the chequebook as it was not a given they would, especially given the previous decade from the same government.
Given the absolute horror of an economic situation and the limited impact of it (it was as near as you can get to economic Armageddon without an actual war), the economy has survived remarkably well and that is in large part to the Treasury policies.
We ought to give them the thumbs up for that, and then smack em for the travesty that is this budget.
I don't really get it - the logic that made the pandemic response would dictate the opposite of what Sunak is trying to do now.0 -
Numbers say the opposite.surrey_commuter said:
I still think the GFC was closer to economic armageddonrick_chasey said:I would like to point out, for the record, that the treasury response to the pandemic, with a few lowlights, was, in general, the right thing to do.
I am OK with giving him praise for opening the chequebook as it was not a given they would, especially given the previous decade from the same government.
Given the absolute horror of an economic situation and the limited impact of it (it was as near as you can get to economic Armageddon without an actual war), the economy has survived remarkably well and that is in large part to the Treasury policies.
We ought to give them the thumbs up for that, and then smack em for the travesty that is this budget.
I don't really get it - the logic that made the pandemic response would dictate the opposite of what Sunak is trying to do now.0 -
Now that's not quite right.surrey_commuter said:
people earning less than £30k will be better offrick_chasey said:
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.
People earning less than £30k are much more exposed to big inflationary movements, and though the government may have marginally improved the tax burden on those under £30k, it is p!ssing in the wind by comparison.
So they are not "better off". They are marginally less worse off, which isn't the same thing.0 -
All of the above...
Plus, and yes I heard this on a podcast, When the "Sauron's Eye" of political pressure turns onto them we discover that all these Johnson cronies are what they are - useless sycophants who have very little talent other than slavish devotion to Brexit and the leader.
A reminder that Sunak was only plucked off the backbenches because The Saj was unexpectedly discovered to have a backbone. Note that the eye is currently pointed at him...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Unless they are earning less than £10k, in which case they are not even less worse off in any sense.rick_chasey said:
Now that's not quite right.surrey_commuter said:
people earning less than £30k will be better offrick_chasey said:
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.
People earning less than £30k are much more exposed to big inflationary movements, and though the government may have marginally improved the tax burden on those under £30k, it is p!ssing in the wind by comparison.
So they are not "better off". They are marginally less worse off, which isn't the same thing.
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of
Not really. Only if you ignore inflation.surrey_commuter said:
people earning less than £30k will be better offrick_chasey said:
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.
I showed how someone earning 12570 last year is £20 per year better off in real terms if inflation is at 5%.
Can we call that negligible? CPI for 12 months to Feb =6.2% meaning they’re worse off in real terms.0 -
To clarify, that was assuming they got a 5% pay rise.
Don’t forget that employees have already been informed by the governor of the BoE that it’s their civic duty to not get pay rises.0 -
Obviously Brexit is playing no part at all... well, it might be worth reading the replies...
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rick_chasey said:
Now that's not quite right.surrey_commuter said:
people earning less than £30k will be better offrick_chasey said:
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.
People earning less than £30k are much more exposed to big inflationary movements, and though the government may have marginally improved the tax burden on those under £30k, it is p!ssing in the wind by comparison.
So they are not "better off". They are marginally less worse off, which isn't the same thing.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much0 -
Article in the Torygraph described it as a choice between a pompous ass and a stick of dynamite. With the added twist that the potential king-maker is a leftie who apparently makes Corbyn look quite moderate.Pross said:
Exactly, vote for the under-achieving liberal or let in a borderline neo-Nazi. That's pretty much the definition of Hobson's choice as I understand it i.e. portrayed as a choice when there isn't one really.rjsterry said:
Oh come on it's not even remotely difficult. One option has not achieved everything he promised, the other positions herself between UKIP and the BNP and had a picture of her and Putin in her campaign literature.Pross said:Not just the UK with Hobson's choice then.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Bumped up NI didn't he?surrey_commuter said:rick_chasey said:
Now that's not quite right.surrey_commuter said:
people earning less than £30k will be better offrick_chasey said:
Probably.pblakeney said:
Did people base their opinion on his give aways during lockdown?rick_chasey said:
He's not as bright as lots of people made out, judging by how he has handled this.kingstongraham said:Was jus pondering on the irony of sunak keeping his green card after he wasn't entitled to it because he could see the benefits of free movement (to him).
People like "free" money. Payback was always going to come.
TBH, apart from his opposition to fast lockdowns and dragging it out, and the eat out-to-help-out, the general strategy of the corona lockdown was sensible.
It was hardly unique, but he didn't *have* to do it, and it was pretty unprecedented.
The politics is what is undoing him. This budget is p!issing in the wind of a big big storm. One of the worst budgets I can remember.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much in a period of inflation is bizarre, and his personal affairs and his response to them being leaked smacks of real political naivety.
People earning less than £30k are much more exposed to big inflationary movements, and though the government may have marginally improved the tax burden on those under £30k, it is p!ssing in the wind by comparison.
So they are not "better off". They are marginally less worse off, which isn't the same thing.
His insistence on pushing up taxes on people who don't earn much0 -
you are looking at the fall in global GDP, I am talking about the fact that the global financial system neary collapsed - when referring to "economic armageddon" I still believe I am rightrick_chasey said:
Numbers say the opposite.surrey_commuter said:
I still think the GFC was closer to economic armageddonrick_chasey said:I would like to point out, for the record, that the treasury response to the pandemic, with a few lowlights, was, in general, the right thing to do.
I am OK with giving him praise for opening the chequebook as it was not a given they would, especially given the previous decade from the same government.
Given the absolute horror of an economic situation and the limited impact of it (it was as near as you can get to economic Armageddon without an actual war), the economy has survived remarkably well and that is in large part to the Treasury policies.
We ought to give them the thumbs up for that, and then smack em for the travesty that is this budget.
I don't really get it - the logic that made the pandemic response would dictate the opposite of what Sunak is trying to do now.
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I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on0 -
I do find it worrying that the Govt has found a way of silencing the mediabriantrumpet said:Obviously Brexit is playing no part at all... well, it might be worth reading the replies...
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You replied to Rick with a statement that was not true though. "people earning less than £30k will be better off".surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on0 -
The inflation is not whataboutery because the tax bands have been frozen.surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on
Had they not been, then yes.
Static tax bands drag more low earners into tax every year and the higher rate applies to ever more modest salaries.0 -
but that was already baked in.morstar said:
The inflation is not whataboutery because the tax bands have been frozen.surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on
Had they not been, then yes.
Static tax bands drag more low earners into tax every year and the higher rate applies to ever more modest salaries.0 -
By Rishi. Who then chose what policies he added on top of that.surrey_commuter said:
but that was already baked in.morstar said:
The inflation is not whataboutery because the tax bands have been frozen.surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on
Had they not been, then yes.
Static tax bands drag more low earners into tax every year and the higher rate applies to ever more modest salaries.
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How can a decision on whether to adjust the tax bands or not be 'baked in'? The lower threshold was only raised at the last minute and the promised tax cut may never happen.surrey_commuter said:
but that was already baked in.morstar said:
The inflation is not whataboutery because the tax bands have been frozen.surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on
Had they not been, then yes.
Static tax bands drag more low earners into tax every year and the higher rate applies to ever more modest salaries.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Because he froze them for the duration of this Parliamentrjsterry said:
How can a decision on whether to adjust the tax bands or not be 'baked in'? The lower threshold was only raised at the last minute and the promised tax cut may never happen.surrey_commuter said:
but that was already baked in.morstar said:
The inflation is not whataboutery because the tax bands have been frozen.surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on
Had they not been, then yes.
Static tax bands drag more low earners into tax every year and the higher rate applies to ever more modest salaries.0 -
Sorry, but this is whatabboutery.surrey_commuter said:
Because he froze them for the duration of this Parliamentrjsterry said:
How can a decision on whether to adjust the tax bands or not be 'baked in'? The lower threshold was only raised at the last minute and the promised tax cut may never happen.surrey_commuter said:
but that was already baked in.morstar said:
The inflation is not whataboutery because the tax bands have been frozen.surrey_commuter said:I probably need to reply to all
Rick said that Rishi was pushing up taxes on people who do not earn much.
This is not true and all the inflation whataboutery does not make it so as that would happen anyway.
Economically this Govt is to the left of Blair with record levels of tax, spending and borrowing. I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing blue rosettes you would be cheering them on
Had they not been, then yes.
Static tax bands drag more low earners into tax every year and the higher rate applies to ever more modest salaries.
It’s his own decision. It’s not like it’s an external factor such as covid or Brexit.
All his new measures are set against the backdrop of his own decision to drag more people into tax with static bands. That decision already being made has to be considered as context for any further policies.0
