BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Only if there was a rumour that somewhere in Bromley had petrol at 1am this morning. And they all decided to not go the best route.surrey_commuter said:
Is there a chance that they are all going down to the south circular to get to Bromley?kingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,50 -
Is the fuel issue worst in London and the SE? If so, isn't that one for the irony thread given that is the area with the best public transport in the country?0
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Bromley is the land of milk and honey, there is always petrol and no queueskingstongraham said:
Only if there was a rumour that somewhere in Bromley had petrol at 1am this morning. And they all decided to not go the best route.surrey_commuter said:
Is there a chance that they are all going down to the south circular to get to Bromley?kingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,51 -
The A3 is to all intents and purposes a motroway and that petrol station could have 24 pumps so relatively speaking the queue could be 6 times as long as a small rural one and you would be waiting the same length of time.Dorset_Boy said:Is the fuel issue worst in London and the SE? If so, isn't that one for the irony thread given that is the area with the best public transport in the country?
There is also a suggestion that post-covid people prefer to commute by car0 -
WFH is becoming more and more the logical choice.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Probably more like 12 pumps but there is also a Greggs - maybe it was a late night rush on sausage rolls?0
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Nope, the midlands is definitely halfway through the North; that's why its called the midlands.Pross said:
Someone will be around to inform you that the Midlands is the south in a minute (especially if it backs up their claim it is a southern problem).skyblueamateur said:Everywhere out round these parts of the Midlands as well so definitely not just a southern thing.
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Vegan sausage rolls?monkimark said:Probably more like 12 pumps but there is also a Greggs - maybe it was a late night rush on sausage rolls?
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It could in theory have 24, but it actually has 12.surrey_commuter said:
The A3 is to all intents and purposes a motroway and that petrol station could have 24 pumps so relatively speaking the queue could be 6 times as long as a small rural one and you would be waiting the same length of time.Dorset_Boy said:Is the fuel issue worst in London and the SE? If so, isn't that one for the irony thread given that is the area with the best public transport in the country?
There is also a suggestion that post-covid people prefer to commute by car0 -
Beggars can't be choosers.
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Not on Sunday it wasn't. I saw 1 closed petrol station and 1 with a mile long queue when i went past it.surrey_commuter said:
Bromley is the land of milk and honey, there is always petrol and no queueskingstongraham said:
Only if there was a rumour that somewhere in Bromley had petrol at 1am this morning. And they all decided to not go the best route.surrey_commuter said:
Is there a chance that they are all going down to the south circular to get to Bromley?kingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,5
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did you go there for the fully stocked Waitrose?elbowloh said:
Not on Sunday it wasn't. I saw 1 closed petrol station and 1 with a mile long queue when i went past it.surrey_commuter said:
Bromley is the land of milk and honey, there is always petrol and no queueskingstongraham said:
Only if there was a rumour that somewhere in Bromley had petrol at 1am this morning. And they all decided to not go the best route.surrey_commuter said:
Is there a chance that they are all going down to the south circular to get to Bromley?kingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,50 -
I would have driven the 200 miles and looked for fuel at that point. I understand the effect of everyone in the UK filling up their tank. The average mileage in the UK is under 10k miles which is about 200 miles per week. Most people only fill up their cars once a fortnight. We essentially can empty every filling station in two days if we all go and fill up our cars as the system is based on people not being idiotsPross said:
Which doesn't answer the question of what you would have done knowing you had a lot of driving this week and you were seeing local petrol stations running out of fuel. You basically had no choice but to drive and hope on Sunday.john80 said:
On Saturday I had about 300 miles in my tank and about 360 to get home on Sunday. So what I did was get in the car and start driving home On the Sunday and surprise surprise petrol stations had fuel and there was no drama. I put in 40 litres to fill it about halfway home and will fill it when it has 50 miles left probably some time next week.Pross said:
So what would you have done if, say, you knew you were going to do 400 miles in the coming week and on Saturday had 200 miles in your tank with places running out of stock? Would you have gone out and topped up early or left it hoping supplies would come in and queues would have died out?john80 said:
Buy their fuel as they normally would. I have not filled up my van on my return from my trip as I have at least a week or twos fuel to go at.kingstongraham said:
What is the customer of a petrol station supposed to do about it?john80 said:
Why should the government fix what is a private industry problem. Haulage outside big business with relatively fixed requirements is mainly sub contracted. They want to drive wages and costs down and the customer wants to drive cost down. There is no point in moaning about either why you have no staff as an employer or as a customer complaining the service is poor due to no staff when you have created the industry in which this is the logical outcome of your decisions. Maybe some customers need to lose money and some haulage companies need to go bust as they can't meet there contracted demands for the industry to take notice.rjsterry said:
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that this laughable idea were true. That the government could get played so effectively for such minimal effort would reflect extremely poorly on the government. I mean if it's that easy, I might see what I can bounce them into doing myself.Stevo_666 said:
I'm just saying that it is a possibility that needs investigating. Of course, nobody with an axe to grind over Brexit would ever try a stunt like that, would they....?rjsterry said:
Who could possibly have predicted that a government minister telling people not to panic buy would lead to panic buying? It's sooo difficult to predict these things.Stevo_666 said:
The bigger issue is clearly idiots panic buying. Not helped by idiots spreading scare stories around on the Internet.kingstongraham said:
I'd say there isn't panic buying now, just long queues and shortages.surrey_commuter said:
I could chose another analogy where pre-planning your life saved you inconvenience whilst those unwilling to think ahead accused you of panicking but I think we both know it would be pointlesskingstongraham said:
If you normally buy it on Monday, and buying it on Sunday for some obscure reason meant that people wanting to travel later on Sunday couldn't, then yes.surrey_commuter said:
No need to panic on Thursday.pblakeney said:
Conclusion. People should have panicked more on Thursday?surrey_commuter said:
Your last sentence perfectly sums it up.DeVlaeminck said:
Yes I put £75 in at 6am this morning - I needed to get somewhere by car today and saw no point in putting £30 in and possibly having to get up at 5am and try multiple petrol stations again on Tuesday or Wednesday if I could put enough in to last me at least til next weekend.briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".pblakeney said:Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.
It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.
I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.
It's just a collective action problem really - individually rational actions are producing a collectively sub optimal outcome.
The tales of woe from people unable to make journeys important to to them just baffles me that that did not plan ahead on Thursday.
If I needed a rail ticket on a Monday and I bought it on Sunday to avoid the inevitable long queues would that be a panic buy?
I don't think you get away with it being not a panic buy just because you started the ball rolling.
But obviously, individually not irrational.
But if you think there is panic buying, then buying early because you think there will be a shortage and long queues is basically the origin story.
There is also a question mark about whether those with an agenda were trying to cause a problem:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/haulage-body-anti-brexit-drive-behind-fuel-crisis-leak-claim/
As for the RHA causing it, I didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.
Would be ironic if the main cause was Eurobollox
Although of course its already been established that there a number of factors, so I am intrigued as to why its in the Brexit thread as if that is the only cause.
https://thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article
IDS was saying it was a simple matter of a few thousand pounds per driver vacancy to resolve back when he was minister at DWP, so why didn't he.
There's a spectrum between those who were running on empty or who had a big trip ahead of them and those who only use £10 a week.0 -
Would you be happy for the government to have funded driver training and uplifts to hgv drivers wages. I would not as this is what the private sector should be doing. By all means be critical of the effects of IR35 but asking the general taxpayer to support industries that could not predict increased competition for labour is certainly not palatable to me.rick_chasey said:
So what would you do?surrey_commuter said:
I don’t think it would have happened without the Govt saying “don’t panic”tailwindhome said:
They must have known the outcome so why would they say it?
And each time they tell people not to panic and it proves to be the worse possible advice the worse it will be next time.
By the time you get to the “don’t panic” option you’re too late.
You prevent a run on something much further up the road than at the point people are running on it.
It’s a failure of the govt to spot that the lorry shortage and the general additional stresses on supply chains would cause a run on something at some point.0 -
pblakeney said:
Yeah but Im sure I read something about Priti Patel setting up a task force to make sure they are out of the country by the 24th December this year.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelLamberta/status/1441913174798704641[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
Ha ha, fuel queue's I meant...JimD666 said:
A30 at Indian Queens before the bypass went in.......ddraver said:Yeah, when I see that ^^, Cornish Queues dont count as queues any more...
Still plenty of 'normal' queues (hence the motorbike)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Training, sure. What's the downside?john80 said:
Would you be happy for the government to have funded driver training and uplifts to hgv drivers wages. I would not as this is what the private sector should be doing. By all means be critical of the effects of IR35 but asking the general taxpayer to support industries that could not predict increased competition for labour is certainly not palatable to me.rick_chasey said:
So what would you do?surrey_commuter said:
I don’t think it would have happened without the Govt saying “don’t panic”tailwindhome said:
They must have known the outcome so why would they say it?
And each time they tell people not to panic and it proves to be the worse possible advice the worse it will be next time.
By the time you get to the “don’t panic” option you’re too late.
You prevent a run on something much further up the road than at the point people are running on it.
It’s a failure of the govt to spot that the lorry shortage and the general additional stresses on supply chains would cause a run on something at some point.
Make it a student loan paid back only if the driver makes more than a threshold amount if it makes the numbers add up for you.0 -
Or we could do nothing and see how it pans out.kingstongraham said:
Training, sure. What's the downside?john80 said:
Would you be happy for the government to have funded driver training and uplifts to hgv drivers wages. I would not as this is what the private sector should be doing. By all means be critical of the effects of IR35 but asking the general taxpayer to support industries that could not predict increased competition for labour is certainly not palatable to me.rick_chasey said:
So what would you do?surrey_commuter said:
I don’t think it would have happened without the Govt saying “don’t panic”tailwindhome said:
They must have known the outcome so why would they say it?
And each time they tell people not to panic and it proves to be the worse possible advice the worse it will be next time.
By the time you get to the “don’t panic” option you’re too late.
You prevent a run on something much further up the road than at the point people are running on it.
It’s a failure of the govt to spot that the lorry shortage and the general additional stresses on supply chains would cause a run on something at some point.
Make it a student loan paid back only if the driver makes more than a threshold amount if it makes the numbers add up for you.
#governmentpolicyThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Not up to the government to decide wages but of course, if they saw a problem coming down the road that the private sector wasn't fixing they should intervene. Markets are good at a lot of things, but they are not infallible.john80 said:
Would you be happy for the government to have funded driver training and uplifts to hgv drivers wages. I would not as this is what the private sector should be doing. By all means be critical of the effects of IR35 but asking the general taxpayer to support industries that could not predict increased competition for labour is certainly not palatable to me.rick_chasey said:
So what would you do?surrey_commuter said:
I don’t think it would have happened without the Govt saying “don’t panic”tailwindhome said:
They must have known the outcome so why would they say it?
And each time they tell people not to panic and it proves to be the worse possible advice the worse it will be next time.
By the time you get to the “don’t panic” option you’re too late.
You prevent a run on something much further up the road than at the point people are running on it.
It’s a failure of the govt to spot that the lorry shortage and the general additional stresses on supply chains would cause a run on something at some point.0 -
Yes, but that just proves it is only bedwetting southerners.kingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,50 -
I agree with the principle but would make it interest free and paid back as additional income tax, I have not done the maths but i am thinking circa 5%. No threshold as you want them to have skin in the game.kingstongraham said:
Training, sure. What's the downside?john80 said:
Would you be happy for the government to have funded driver training and uplifts to hgv drivers wages. I would not as this is what the private sector should be doing. By all means be critical of the effects of IR35 but asking the general taxpayer to support industries that could not predict increased competition for labour is certainly not palatable to me.rick_chasey said:
So what would you do?surrey_commuter said:
I don’t think it would have happened without the Govt saying “don’t panic”tailwindhome said:
They must have known the outcome so why would they say it?
And each time they tell people not to panic and it proves to be the worse possible advice the worse it will be next time.
By the time you get to the “don’t panic” option you’re too late.
You prevent a run on something much further up the road than at the point people are running on it.
It’s a failure of the govt to spot that the lorry shortage and the general additional stresses on supply chains would cause a run on something at some point.
Make it a student loan paid back only if the driver makes more than a threshold amount if it makes the numbers add up for you.
Or let companies spend their apprenticeship levy on it
I would also apply that to all aproved training0 -
I think you need to read back through a few posts and you might get the sarcasm.darkhairedlord said:
Nope, the midlands is definitely halfway through the North; that's why its called the midlands.Pross said:
Someone will be around to inform you that the Midlands is the south in a minute (especially if it backs up their claim it is a southern problem).skyblueamateur said:Everywhere out round these parts of the Midlands as well so definitely not just a southern thing.
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Stevo was in Liverpool then, they were keeping everything back for his return.elbowloh said:
Not on Sunday it wasn't. I saw 1 closed petrol station and 1 with a mile long queue when i went past it.surrey_commuter said:
Bromley is the land of milk and honey, there is always petrol and no queueskingstongraham said:
Only if there was a rumour that somewhere in Bromley had petrol at 1am this morning. And they all decided to not go the best route.surrey_commuter said:
Is there a chance that they are all going down to the south circular to get to Bromley?kingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,50 -
Pross said:
Yes, but that just proves it is only bedwettingkingstongraham said:Look at the timestamp on this webcam on the A3 where there is a petrol station.
Then clear at 5
And I guess they got another delivery, so at 6.
It seems like it might be a problem.
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-Kingdom/England/London/Beverley-Way/Coombe-Lane-Flyover/webcams/1508414067?51.427,-13.447,5southerners. Londoners0 -
Can't be bedwetting if you don't go to bed all night because you're at a petrol party. Common sense.0
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As mentioned before, didn't IDS (?) say that they funded a pilot for government backed HGV training to prove there was a desire from the workforce to become a trucker? He said it was successful, which begged the question as to why they didn't extend the trial.kingstongraham said:
Training, sure. What's the downside?john80 said:
Would you be happy for the government to have funded driver training and uplifts to hgv drivers wages. I would not as this is what the private sector should be doing. By all means be critical of the effects of IR35 but asking the general taxpayer to support industries that could not predict increased competition for labour is certainly not palatable to me.rick_chasey said:
So what would you do?surrey_commuter said:
I don’t think it would have happened without the Govt saying “don’t panic”tailwindhome said:
They must have known the outcome so why would they say it?
And each time they tell people not to panic and it proves to be the worse possible advice the worse it will be next time.
By the time you get to the “don’t panic” option you’re too late.
You prevent a run on something much further up the road than at the point people are running on it.
It’s a failure of the govt to spot that the lorry shortage and the general additional stresses on supply chains would cause a run on something at some point.
Make it a student loan paid back only if the driver makes more than a threshold amount if it makes the numbers add up for you.0 -
Journalist on Times Radio with Matt Chorley complaining that no one mentioned haulage issues such as cabotage during the Brexit referendum campaign or during the negotiations
That my friends is how we got here“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
They did mention it during the negotiations. The EU didn't like it, because it was considered too much of a perk for a non-member even though it was in the interests of their drivers. The UK reciprocated the EU's position.tailwindhome said:Journalist on Times Radio with Matt Chorley complaining that no one mentioned haulage issues such as cabotage during the Brexit referendum campaign or during the negotiations
That my friends is how we got here
I mentioned this before.0 -
That's why Brexit was a bad idea.TheBigBean said:
They did mention it during the negotiations. The EU didn't like it, because it was considered too much of a perk for a non-member even though it was in the interests of their drivers. The UK reciprocated the EU's position.tailwindhome said:Journalist on Times Radio with Matt Chorley complaining that no one mentioned haulage issues such as cabotage during the Brexit referendum campaign or during the negotiations
That my friends is how we got here
I mentioned this before. 0
