BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Pross

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

Whilst it's commonplace to knock the school run drivers (I'm guilty of it myself) and assume that all they are doing is dropping little Johnny off before going for coffee with their friends the vast majority will be doing it as part of a linked trip e.g. on their way to work or to do the shopping so walking unfortunately becomes less of an option. Arguably having to get the kids to school can limit other travel options for the commute meaning a car journey is more essential.

I'd argue that because that is an option, there's not enough creative thinking to work out how things could work if it weren't an option. Given that I never had a parent who could take me to school, it was either walk, cycle, or bus.

Unfortunately because of the ubiquity of cars, (necessary) routines have arisen which then (often) depend on car usage. But, equally, I think a lot of people are guilty of not saying "Is there any way I could do this without driving my children to school?", because the car option is still the easiest, and doesn't disrupt routines.

Sure, I used to walk myself to school and my kids did from about 10 onwards but I can understand a reluctance for parents to send young kids off on their own. Public transport is rubbish in most areas, even though my daughter gets a bus to college my wife usually has to drop her at the main bus station 5 miles away on her way to work as the local buses are so infrequent. I'm working on several school jobs at the moment and there's an emphasis on providing good pedestrian and cycle links whilst putting in place measures to disuade car use (as with the fuel thing everyone seems to find a way why they think using a car is bad but that they are an exception). It works OK in urban areas where the catchment is maybe a 1 mile radius, less so in rural locations.

john80

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.

I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.

Yes I put £75 in at 6am this morning - I needed to get somewhere by car today and saw no point in putting £30 in and possibly having to get up at 5am and try multiple petrol stations again on Tuesday or Wednesday if I could put enough in to last me at least til next weekend.

It's just a collective action problem really - individually rational actions are producing a collectively sub optimal outcome.

Your last sentence perfectly sums it up.

The tales of woe from people unable to make journeys important to to them just baffles me that that did not plan ahead on Thursday.

Conclusion. People should have panicked more on Thursday?

No need to panic on Thursday.

If I needed a rail ticket on a Monday and I bought it on Sunday to avoid the inevitable long queues would that be a panic buy?

If you normally buy it on Monday, and buying it on Sunday for some obscure reason meant that people wanting to travel later on Sunday couldn't, then yes.

I don't think you get away with it being not a panic buy just because you started the ball rolling.

But obviously, individually not irrational.

I could chose another analogy where pre-planning your life saved you inconvenience whilst those unwilling to think ahead accused you of panicking but I think we both know it would be pointless

I'd say there isn't panic buying now, just long queues and shortages.

But if you think there is panic buying, then buying early because you think there will be a shortage and long queues is basically the origin story.

The bigger issue is clearly idiots panic buying. Not helped by idiots spreading scare stories around on the Internet.

There is also a question mark about whether those with an agenda were trying to cause a problem:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/haulage-body-anti-brexit-drive-behind-fuel-crisis-leak-claim/

Who could possibly have predicted that a government minister telling people not to panic buy would lead to panic buying? It's sooo difficult to predict these things.

As for the RHA causing it, I didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

I'm just saying that it is a possibility that needs investigating. Of course, nobody with an axe to grind over Brexit would ever try a stunt like that, would they....?

Would be ironic if the main cause was Eurobollox

Although of course its already been established that there a number of factors, so I am intrigued as to why its in the Brexit thread as if that is the only cause.
https://thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that this laughable idea were true. That the government could get played so effectively for such minimal effort would reflect extremely poorly on the government. I mean if it's that easy, I might see what I can bounce them into doing myself.

IDS was saying it was a simple matter of a few thousand pounds per driver vacancy to resolve back when he was minister at DWP, so why didn't he.

Why should the government fix what is a private industry problem. Haulage outside big business with relatively fixed requirements is mainly sub contracted. They want to drive wages and costs down and the customer wants to drive cost down. There is no point in moaning about either why you have no staff as an employer or as a customer complaining the service is poor due to no staff when you have created the industry in which this is the logical outcome of your decisions. Maybe some customers need to lose money and some haulage companies need to go bust as they can't meet there contracted demands for the industry to take notice.

shirley_basso

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

Whilst it's commonplace to knock the school run drivers (I'm guilty of it myself) and assume that all they are doing is dropping little Johnny off before going for coffee with their friends the vast majority will be doing it as part of a linked trip e.g. on their way to work or to do the shopping so walking unfortunately becomes less of an option. Arguably having to get the kids to school can limit other travel options for the commute meaning a car journey is more essential.

Given that I never had a parent who could take me to school, it was either walk, cycle, or bus.

My son had been at school (nursery) for about 12 months before he could even walk. I doubt he would be able to get himself there now without assitance.

john80

Pross said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

Went to a sailing event on Wednesday with 100 miles gone out the tank and had to fill up at Bristol and carried on to Torquay. Drove from their back on Sunday again To Cumbria with 100 miles out the tank and filled up in Gloucester. I had to modify my behaviour as normally I would have got down to last 50 miles between fill ups.

I am willing to hazard a bet that if every motorist in an area goes and fills their tank then this volume will wipe out a fair few petrol stations stock. Petrol station tanks generally are not many multiples of a tanker in size as it has a shelf life and it is a hazard to store. The media have created the problem and the people have completed the process.

How did the media create a shortage of lorry drivers to deliver fuel? Why are you so unwilling to accept that Brexit has helped widen cracks that were already there? The media only reported on a leaked story, I'm not a fan of journalists generally but it seems unfair to blame them for reporting a story that was passed to someone. Also, how comes you class yourself has "having" to modify your behaviour whereas you imply others that have modified their own behaviour are part of the problem? You could have chosen not to travel the length of the country and back.

Given that John wants another motorway built so that he can get down to Fowey without hindrance, I think we have a good idea of how essential sailing is.

You don't seem to understand that there's no sea near Cumbria.

No lakes in the area either.

There are roads round your house so you better not be thinking of entering a sportive local or further afield. You happy with that compromise to your life.

john80

rick_chasey said:

Maybe it's corona, maybe it's Brexit, who knows, but currently there are unfilled vacancies in over half the shops on my stretch of high street near me, including the f*cking pharmacist, which was shut as a result.

At the end of June there is 1.6 million people still on furlough. Whilst I suspect that the numbers are now significantly lower we seem to be protecting a number of jobs in industries that it would be fair to say might not be existing if they have not managed to reopen by now.

john80

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

Went to a sailing event on Wednesday with 100 miles gone out the tank and had to fill up at Bristol and carried on to Torquay. Drove from their back on Sunday again To Cumbria with 100 miles out the tank and filled up in Gloucester. I had to modify my behaviour as normally I would have got down to last 50 miles between fill ups.

I am willing to hazard a bet that if every motorist in an area goes and fills their tank then this volume will wipe out a fair few petrol stations stock. Petrol station tanks generally are not many multiples of a tanker in size as it has a shelf life and it is a hazard to store. The media have created the problem and the people have completed the process.

How did the media create a shortage of lorry drivers to deliver fuel? Why are you so unwilling to accept that Brexit has helped widen cracks that were already there? The media only reported on a leaked story, I'm not a fan of journalists generally but it seems unfair to blame them for reporting a story that was passed to someone. Also, how comes you class yourself has "having" to modify your behaviour whereas you imply others that have modified their own behaviour are part of the problem? You could have chosen not to travel the length of the country and back.

Given that John wants another motorway built so that he can get down to Fowey without hindrance, I think we have a good idea of how essential sailing is.

You don't seem to understand that there's no sea near Cumbria.

You don't seem to understand that not all sailing national championships are held off the coast at my house. If only I had a way of cornering the market of sailing events next to my house I would need never travel again.

pangolin

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

Maybe it's corona, maybe it's Brexit, who knows, but currently there are unfilled vacancies in over half the shops on my stretch of high street near me, including the f*cking pharmacist, which was shut as a result.

At the end of June there is 1.6 million people still on furlough. Whilst I suspect that the numbers are now significantly lower we seem to be protecting a number of jobs in industries that it would be fair to say might not be existing if they have not managed to reopen by now.

I admire how you admit you don't know the numbers are but go on to tell us what the numbers mean.

kingstongraham

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.

I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.

Yes I put £75 in at 6am this morning - I needed to get somewhere by car today and saw no point in putting £30 in and possibly having to get up at 5am and try multiple petrol stations again on Tuesday or Wednesday if I could put enough in to last me at least til next weekend.

It's just a collective action problem really - individually rational actions are producing a collectively sub optimal outcome.

Your last sentence perfectly sums it up.

The tales of woe from people unable to make journeys important to to them just baffles me that that did not plan ahead on Thursday.

Conclusion. People should have panicked more on Thursday?

No need to panic on Thursday.

If I needed a rail ticket on a Monday and I bought it on Sunday to avoid the inevitable long queues would that be a panic buy?

If you normally buy it on Monday, and buying it on Sunday for some obscure reason meant that people wanting to travel later on Sunday couldn't, then yes.

I don't think you get away with it being not a panic buy just because you started the ball rolling.

But obviously, individually not irrational.

I could chose another analogy where pre-planning your life saved you inconvenience whilst those unwilling to think ahead accused you of panicking but I think we both know it would be pointless

I'd say there isn't panic buying now, just long queues and shortages.

But if you think there is panic buying, then buying early because you think there will be a shortage and long queues is basically the origin story.

The bigger issue is clearly idiots panic buying. Not helped by idiots spreading scare stories around on the Internet.

There is also a question mark about whether those with an agenda were trying to cause a problem:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/haulage-body-anti-brexit-drive-behind-fuel-crisis-leak-claim/

Who could possibly have predicted that a government minister telling people not to panic buy would lead to panic buying? It's sooo difficult to predict these things.

As for the RHA causing it, I didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

I'm just saying that it is a possibility that needs investigating. Of course, nobody with an axe to grind over Brexit would ever try a stunt like that, would they....?

Would be ironic if the main cause was Eurobollox

Although of course its already been established that there a number of factors, so I am intrigued as to why its in the Brexit thread as if that is the only cause.
https://thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that this laughable idea were true. That the government could get played so effectively for such minimal effort would reflect extremely poorly on the government. I mean if it's that easy, I might see what I can bounce them into doing myself.

IDS was saying it was a simple matter of a few thousand pounds per driver vacancy to resolve back when he was minister at DWP, so why didn't he.

Why should the government fix what is a private industry problem. Haulage outside big business with relatively fixed requirements is mainly sub contracted. They want to drive wages and costs down and the customer wants to drive cost down. There is no point in moaning about either why you have no staff as an employer or as a customer complaining the service is poor due to no staff when you have created the industry in which this is the logical outcome of your decisions. Maybe some customers need to lose money and some haulage companies need to go bust as they can't meet there contracted demands for the industry to take notice.

What is the customer of a petrol station supposed to do about it?

focuszing723

I don't get all the panic? At some point all the idiots who have gone fully neanderthal and filled their cars and cans to the brim won't need to buy anymore, so the demand will reduce and thing will get back to normal. Also, I would like to think people will be more considered with how critical their journeys are, reducing demand.

The same happened will all the bog roll fanatics.

God, AI is going to demolish us with it's rational thought.

pblakeney

focuszing723 said:

I don't get all the panic? At some point all the idiots who have gone fully neanderthal and filled their cars and cans to the brim won't need to buy anymore, so the demand will reduce and thing will get back to normal. Also, I would like to think people will be more considered with how critical their journeys are, reducing demand.

The same happened will all the bog roll fanatics.

God, AI is going to demolish us with it's rational thought.

Have a look at the Covid thread. 😉

ddraver

lololololol

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1442147253507051523?s=19

(no, I don't think its a real story. It wouldn't surprise me if it was true)

pblakeney

ddraver said:

lololololol

(no, I don't think its a real story. It wouldn't surprise me if it was true)

Nice fence sitting there. 😉

ddraver

fair...

Jezyboy

I'll put my neck out...

It would surprise me if true (unless Boris thinks he could have swung it for remain)

If Boris had backed remain, there's no way he'd be PM now.

ddraver

Agreed, although I'm sure Johnson thinks he's PM because he's the next Churchill and nothing else...

rick_chasey

Story on Bloomberg about how businesses are really suffering with the fuel shortage

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

Story on Bloomberg about how businesses are really suffering with the fuel shortage

Fake news!!!

I haven’t seen any queues and despite not needing any fuel have had no trouble in not filling up

john80

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.

I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.

Yes I put £75 in at 6am this morning - I needed to get somewhere by car today and saw no point in putting £30 in and possibly having to get up at 5am and try multiple petrol stations again on Tuesday or Wednesday if I could put enough in to last me at least til next weekend.

It's just a collective action problem really - individually rational actions are producing a collectively sub optimal outcome.

Your last sentence perfectly sums it up.

The tales of woe from people unable to make journeys important to to them just baffles me that that did not plan ahead on Thursday.

Conclusion. People should have panicked more on Thursday?

No need to panic on Thursday.

If I needed a rail ticket on a Monday and I bought it on Sunday to avoid the inevitable long queues would that be a panic buy?

If you normally buy it on Monday, and buying it on Sunday for some obscure reason meant that people wanting to travel later on Sunday couldn't, then yes.

I don't think you get away with it being not a panic buy just because you started the ball rolling.

But obviously, individually not irrational.

I could chose another analogy where pre-planning your life saved you inconvenience whilst those unwilling to think ahead accused you of panicking but I think we both know it would be pointless

I'd say there isn't panic buying now, just long queues and shortages.

But if you think there is panic buying, then buying early because you think there will be a shortage and long queues is basically the origin story.

The bigger issue is clearly idiots panic buying. Not helped by idiots spreading scare stories around on the Internet.

There is also a question mark about whether those with an agenda were trying to cause a problem:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/haulage-body-anti-brexit-drive-behind-fuel-crisis-leak-claim/

Who could possibly have predicted that a government minister telling people not to panic buy would lead to panic buying? It's sooo difficult to predict these things.

As for the RHA causing it, I didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

I'm just saying that it is a possibility that needs investigating. Of course, nobody with an axe to grind over Brexit would ever try a stunt like that, would they....?

Would be ironic if the main cause was Eurobollox

Although of course its already been established that there a number of factors, so I am intrigued as to why its in the Brexit thread as if that is the only cause.
https://thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that this laughable idea were true. That the government could get played so effectively for such minimal effort would reflect extremely poorly on the government. I mean if it's that easy, I might see what I can bounce them into doing myself.

IDS was saying it was a simple matter of a few thousand pounds per driver vacancy to resolve back when he was minister at DWP, so why didn't he.

Why should the government fix what is a private industry problem. Haulage outside big business with relatively fixed requirements is mainly sub contracted. They want to drive wages and costs down and the customer wants to drive cost down. There is no point in moaning about either why you have no staff as an employer or as a customer complaining the service is poor due to no staff when you have created the industry in which this is the logical outcome of your decisions. Maybe some customers need to lose money and some haulage companies need to go bust as they can't meet there contracted demands for the industry to take notice.

What is the customer of a petrol station supposed to do about it?

Buy their fuel as they normally would. I have not filled up my van on my return from my trip as I have at least a week or twos fuel to go at.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.

I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.

Yes I put £75 in at 6am this morning - I needed to get somewhere by car today and saw no point in putting £30 in and possibly having to get up at 5am and try multiple petrol stations again on Tuesday or Wednesday if I could put enough in to last me at least til next weekend.

It's just a collective action problem really - individually rational actions are producing a collectively sub optimal outcome.

Your last sentence perfectly sums it up.

The tales of woe from people unable to make journeys important to to them just baffles me that that did not plan ahead on Thursday.

Conclusion. People should have panicked more on Thursday?

No need to panic on Thursday.

If I needed a rail ticket on a Monday and I bought it on Sunday to avoid the inevitable long queues would that be a panic buy?

If you normally buy it on Monday, and buying it on Sunday for some obscure reason meant that people wanting to travel later on Sunday couldn't, then yes.

I don't think you get away with it being not a panic buy just because you started the ball rolling.

But obviously, individually not irrational.

I could chose another analogy where pre-planning your life saved you inconvenience whilst those unwilling to think ahead accused you of panicking but I think we both know it would be pointless

I'd say there isn't panic buying now, just long queues and shortages.

But if you think there is panic buying, then buying early because you think there will be a shortage and long queues is basically the origin story.

The bigger issue is clearly idiots panic buying. Not helped by idiots spreading scare stories around on the Internet.

There is also a question mark about whether those with an agenda were trying to cause a problem:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/haulage-body-anti-brexit-drive-behind-fuel-crisis-leak-claim/

Who could possibly have predicted that a government minister telling people not to panic buy would lead to panic buying? It's sooo difficult to predict these things.

As for the RHA causing it, I didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

I'm just saying that it is a possibility that needs investigating. Of course, nobody with an axe to grind over Brexit would ever try a stunt like that, would they....?

Would be ironic if the main cause was Eurobollox

Although of course its already been established that there a number of factors, so I am intrigued as to why its in the Brexit thread as if that is the only cause.
https://thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article

Where do you want it? The Tory thread?

How about a fuel thread so as not to derail the Brexit discussion - what's left of it anyway.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Story on Bloomberg about how businesses are really suffering with the fuel shortage

We can keep our pants dry for now:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58707455

john80

pangolin said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

Maybe it's corona, maybe it's Brexit, who knows, but currently there are unfilled vacancies in over half the shops on my stretch of high street near me, including the f*cking pharmacist, which was shut as a result.

At the end of June there is 1.6 million people still on furlough. Whilst I suspect that the numbers are now significantly lower we seem to be protecting a number of jobs in industries that it would be fair to say might not be existing if they have not managed to reopen by now.

I admire how you admit you don't know the numbers are but go on to tell us what the numbers mean.

Do I need to point out the obvious to you.

Stevo_666

Also here:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/27/petrol-crisis-will-end-within-days-predict-fuel-providers/

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Story on Bloomberg about how businesses are really suffering with the fuel shortage

We can keep our pants dry for now:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58707455

I think plenty of people have wet the bed already because of this, and all because BP said " a few" of their petrol stations would have reduced petrol.

Anyway, I said exactly this yesterday.

rick_chasey

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if the supply is there eventually everyone will have full tanks and it’ll calm down.

for posterity

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if the supply is there eventually everyone will have full tanks and it’ll calm down.

for posterity

I said that as well tbf. It was just unfortunate timing that that I had to do a return trip to Liverpool yesterday but in the end it was no big deal. I think part of pant wetting is a southern thing - at the services on the A14 the queue was long (and I only needed to take a leak, didn't need petrol at the time), whereas at the services near Derby I went straight in and got to the pumps in a minute flat.

Pross

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Strange thing today out on the bike. I passed loads of garages. No queues and no signs saying sold out. Muppets must feel silly. I hope so.

Drove out to Leith Hill from Kingston. Every petrol station we passed had massive queues except one that had a sign saying "no unleaded".

It was causing traffic jams at the hook junction with the a3 and at the leatherhead roundabout near Box Hill. It's crazy out there.

I bet you if you quizzed most of those drivers, each one would deny they are panic buying, but would come up with some reason why they had to queue to fill their tank to the top today.

Yes I put £75 in at 6am this morning - I needed to get somewhere by car today and saw no point in putting £30 in and possibly having to get up at 5am and try multiple petrol stations again on Tuesday or Wednesday if I could put enough in to last me at least til next weekend.

It's just a collective action problem really - individually rational actions are producing a collectively sub optimal outcome.

Your last sentence perfectly sums it up.

The tales of woe from people unable to make journeys important to to them just baffles me that that did not plan ahead on Thursday.

Conclusion. People should have panicked more on Thursday?

No need to panic on Thursday.

If I needed a rail ticket on a Monday and I bought it on Sunday to avoid the inevitable long queues would that be a panic buy?

If you normally buy it on Monday, and buying it on Sunday for some obscure reason meant that people wanting to travel later on Sunday couldn't, then yes.

I don't think you get away with it being not a panic buy just because you started the ball rolling.

But obviously, individually not irrational.

I could chose another analogy where pre-planning your life saved you inconvenience whilst those unwilling to think ahead accused you of panicking but I think we both know it would be pointless

I'd say there isn't panic buying now, just long queues and shortages.

But if you think there is panic buying, then buying early because you think there will be a shortage and long queues is basically the origin story.

The bigger issue is clearly idiots panic buying. Not helped by idiots spreading scare stories around on the Internet.

There is also a question mark about whether those with an agenda were trying to cause a problem:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/haulage-body-anti-brexit-drive-behind-fuel-crisis-leak-claim/

Who could possibly have predicted that a government minister telling people not to panic buy would lead to panic buying? It's sooo difficult to predict these things.

As for the RHA causing it, I didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

I'm just saying that it is a possibility that needs investigating. Of course, nobody with an axe to grind over Brexit would ever try a stunt like that, would they....?

Would be ironic if the main cause was Eurobollox

Although of course its already been established that there a number of factors, so I am intrigued as to why its in the Brexit thread as if that is the only cause.
https://thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that this laughable idea were true. That the government could get played so effectively for such minimal effort would reflect extremely poorly on the government. I mean if it's that easy, I might see what I can bounce them into doing myself.

IDS was saying it was a simple matter of a few thousand pounds per driver vacancy to resolve back when he was minister at DWP, so why didn't he.

Why should the government fix what is a private industry problem. Haulage outside big business with relatively fixed requirements is mainly sub contracted. They want to drive wages and costs down and the customer wants to drive cost down. There is no point in moaning about either why you have no staff as an employer or as a customer complaining the service is poor due to no staff when you have created the industry in which this is the logical outcome of your decisions. Maybe some customers need to lose money and some haulage companies need to go bust as they can't meet there contracted demands for the industry to take notice.

What is the customer of a petrol station supposed to do about it?

Buy their fuel as they normally would. I have not filled up my van on my return from my trip as I have at least a week or twos fuel to go at.

So what would you have done if, say, you knew you were going to do 400 miles in the coming week and on Saturday had 200 miles in your tank with places running out of stock? Would you have gone out and topped up early or left it hoping supplies would come in and queues would have died out?

There's a spectrum between those who were running on empty or who had a big trip ahead of them and those who only use £10 a week.

darkhairedlord

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if the supply is there eventually everyone will have full tanks and it’ll calm down.

for posterity

I said that as well tbf. It was just unfortunate timing that that I had to do a return trip to Liverpool yesterday but in the end it was no big deal. I think part of pant wetting is a southern thing - at the services on the A14 the queue was long (and I only needed to take a leak, didn't need petrol at the time), whereas at the services near Derby I went straight in and got to the pumps in a minute flat.

I said it first ....

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if the supply is there eventually everyone will have full tanks and it’ll calm down.

for posterity

I said that as well tbf. It was just unfortunate timing that that I had to do a return trip to Liverpool yesterday but in the end it was no big deal. I think part of pant wetting is a southern thing - at the services on the A14 the queue was long (and I only needed to take a leak, didn't need petrol at the time), whereas at the services near Derby I went straight in and got to the pumps in a minute flat.

Or maybe just that there are a lot more people down south.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if the supply is there eventually everyone will have full tanks and it’ll calm down.

for posterity

I said that as well tbf. It was just unfortunate timing that that I had to do a return trip to Liverpool yesterday but in the end it was no big deal. I think part of pant wetting is a southern thing - at the services on the A14 the queue was long (and I only needed to take a leak, didn't need petrol at the time), whereas at the services near Derby I went straight in and got to the pumps in a minute flat.

Or maybe just that there are a lot more people down south.

Lotta mouth breathers in and around the A14 tbf

Stevo_666

darkhairedlord said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if the supply is there eventually everyone will have full tanks and it’ll calm down.

for posterity

I said that as well tbf. It was just unfortunate timing that that I had to do a return trip to Liverpool yesterday but in the end it was no big deal. I think part of pant wetting is a southern thing - at the services on the A14 the queue was long (and I only needed to take a leak, didn't need petrol at the time), whereas at the services near Derby I went straight in and got to the pumps in a minute flat.

I said it first ....

Well you do live on the South Coast so I suspect the pants are wettest down there.