BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Nah you just need to limit yourself to canoeing in the docks.kingstongraham said:
We need them to go places that don't have decent public transport.john80 said:
If I have read your figures correctly London has 40% plus 12% means 52% of Londoners have a car parked outside there house. Cumbria 70% of households have a car parked outside. So for a county with little to no public transport we have not many more cars outside houses compared to a city with excellent in comparison transport links. It is almost as if most Londoners want or need a car. Go figure.rjsterry said:
Some figures.john80 said:
Come on mate. I know four people that live in London and the streets are full of cars. Someone owns them. So maybe I have been too specific in my prior statement so thanks for being pedantic. However the point still stands if you care to take a look on a lot of London's streets may e Google earth is lying and has placed imaginary cars there.rjsterry said:
No. We don't. We have functioning public transport because there are enough of us in a small space to make it worthwhile. We also live within a cyclable distance of work. There is sailing and kayaking in the docks or the River Lea if that's your thing. I have a book of 50 walks - all decent length in nice countryside (granted no mountains) and all within 1hr of Central London railway station. There are numerous climbing walls. Have you ever actually visited a city?john80 said:
I don't get the last paragraph however I don't have to live somewhere to have a view on the situation. You think it is dandy and I don't. The problem is that to significantly improve the quality of life of those that live there you are going to have to go pretty big and I don't think that is realistic. The main issue is that everyone needs something different. City dwellers all drive cars when in reality if they got rid of them and changed the infrastructure round to cycling, walking and zero emission public transport they would be better off assuming they work locally. Myself in the sticks I can get a zero emission vehicle but the distances are too large and the population too sparse to make the above work.surrey_commuter said:
OK, I am genuinely baffled.john80 said:
Given motorways are the local roads now maybe the answer is a second set of them for automated cars. At least 50 miles between exits and automated cars only. Could be the new form of public transport that is door to door. You just have to drive the first and last 50 miles yourself. We need to face facts that is the population growth wanters get their way we need to either start growing cities up to reduce urban sprawl and keep mass transport systems efficient. Or we need to start developing the less well connected parts of the country and this means getting transport door to door in an efficient manner. Alternatively we can just turn the South West into a housing estate and live with the consequences. As has been pointed out I only have to deal with this about 10-20 times a year so crack on.rjsterry said:
So we now need a motorway with no connections to the surroundings? I grew up a couple of miles from the M4/M5 interchange. Bank Holiday jams on the M5 have been happening for at least the last 40-odd years; long before most of these housing developments were built.john80 said:
The guys that commute on the m5 might have a different take on this. We allowed an excessive number of junctions and housing developments next to them. Should we then deliver a rubbish experience when you use them as well.rjsterry said:
Building more motorways for the couple of weekends a year that everyone wants to drive to Cornwall is about as daft as it gets.john80 said:
M6 version two slap bang down the middle of the country. More roads into Cornwall or any other areas where there is congestion.surrey_commuter said:
I am not against building motorways but do think you get more bang for your buck upgrading existing routes, like the A14 you mentioned.john80 said:
Every freight train I have ever seen pulling loads is a couple of diesel locomotives. Not sure that is the green answer you are looking for. When we all have electric vehicles and most of our power comes from carbon free sources why are we bothered about trains when they don't take those outside cities from door to door. This is the elephant in the room the greens miss in that if technology makes something green then they lose their objection. Why not another motorway when everything on it is green for example.elbowloh said:
Your experience is completely wrong, which is why we're investing in rail.rick_chasey said:I get that we are in a sort of neo victorian world where we have to rely on a few ultra rich benefactors to make interesting technological developments and blame the poor for their own poverty, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised everyone gets a hard on over rail.
My experience of rail is that it is abhorrently expensive and British rail cannot cope with any increased demand, and any attempt to improve capacity is met with shrieking nimbyism that massively increases the cost of it.
Plus we need to if we want to meet climate change targets.
Where would you build new motorway (s)
The M25 is 5 or 6 lanes in each direction in places now and still comes to a halt regularly. There is no motorway that can be built that won't fill up with traffic as soon as it's open.
From previous conversations we know that some people on here (including myself) believe that it is possible to be inside the M25 and be in the sticks. There are other people who would rather chew their arm off than live within 50 miles of London.
As you live in the least densely populated part on England I am assuming that you are in the latter category. What I do not get is why you are so worked up about the population density in the south east?
I love the tower blocks and think the previously mentioned Elephant and Castle was a total sh1thole that should have been bulldozed long ago and that the new tower blocks are beautiful. What I don't do is get angry about the lack of towers in Hawkshead and the lack of decent restaurants and in particular the absence of authentic foreign cuisine.
So I have tried not to be confrontational because I am genuinely interested in the population density where you don't live and have no reason to go?
As a side line to this unless your hobbies are exclusively related to city life then using public transport is pretty awkward. Kayaking in a lake, going to a sailing event or going walking are all pretty difficult without a car. Me giving you my view on the state of current UK cities is not getting angry it is just giving you my view.There are 2.56m cars licensed in London. This equates to an average of 0.3 cars per adult. In total, 46 per cent of households do not have a car, 40 per cent have one car and 12 per cent have two or more cars, with very few households owning more than two cars.
Figures for Cumbria are notably higher at 70% of households with access to one or more cars.
The roads are still busy because London is a big place with roughly 20 times the population of Cumbria.0 -
They have a helicopter and a lawn to keep it on.TheBigBean said:What do the 2% do?
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I've swum in there, but never canoed.john80 said:
Nah you just need to limit yourself to canoeing in the docks.kingstongraham said:
We need them to go places that don't have decent public transport.john80 said:
If I have read your figures correctly London has 40% plus 12% means 52% of Londoners have a car parked outside there house. Cumbria 70% of households have a car parked outside. So for a county with little to no public transport we have not many more cars outside houses compared to a city with excellent in comparison transport links. It is almost as if most Londoners want or need a car. Go figure.rjsterry said:
Some figures.john80 said:
Come on mate. I know four people that live in London and the streets are full of cars. Someone owns them. So maybe I have been too specific in my prior statement so thanks for being pedantic. However the point still stands if you care to take a look on a lot of London's streets may e Google earth is lying and has placed imaginary cars there.rjsterry said:
No. We don't. We have functioning public transport because there are enough of us in a small space to make it worthwhile. We also live within a cyclable distance of work. There is sailing and kayaking in the docks or the River Lea if that's your thing. I have a book of 50 walks - all decent length in nice countryside (granted no mountains) and all within 1hr of Central London railway station. There are numerous climbing walls. Have you ever actually visited a city?john80 said:
I don't get the last paragraph however I don't have to live somewhere to have a view on the situation. You think it is dandy and I don't. The problem is that to significantly improve the quality of life of those that live there you are going to have to go pretty big and I don't think that is realistic. The main issue is that everyone needs something different. City dwellers all drive cars when in reality if they got rid of them and changed the infrastructure round to cycling, walking and zero emission public transport they would be better off assuming they work locally. Myself in the sticks I can get a zero emission vehicle but the distances are too large and the population too sparse to make the above work.surrey_commuter said:
OK, I am genuinely baffled.john80 said:
Given motorways are the local roads now maybe the answer is a second set of them for automated cars. At least 50 miles between exits and automated cars only. Could be the new form of public transport that is door to door. You just have to drive the first and last 50 miles yourself. We need to face facts that is the population growth wanters get their way we need to either start growing cities up to reduce urban sprawl and keep mass transport systems efficient. Or we need to start developing the less well connected parts of the country and this means getting transport door to door in an efficient manner. Alternatively we can just turn the South West into a housing estate and live with the consequences. As has been pointed out I only have to deal with this about 10-20 times a year so crack on.rjsterry said:
So we now need a motorway with no connections to the surroundings? I grew up a couple of miles from the M4/M5 interchange. Bank Holiday jams on the M5 have been happening for at least the last 40-odd years; long before most of these housing developments were built.john80 said:
The guys that commute on the m5 might have a different take on this. We allowed an excessive number of junctions and housing developments next to them. Should we then deliver a rubbish experience when you use them as well.rjsterry said:
Building more motorways for the couple of weekends a year that everyone wants to drive to Cornwall is about as daft as it gets.john80 said:
M6 version two slap bang down the middle of the country. More roads into Cornwall or any other areas where there is congestion.surrey_commuter said:
I am not against building motorways but do think you get more bang for your buck upgrading existing routes, like the A14 you mentioned.john80 said:
Every freight train I have ever seen pulling loads is a couple of diesel locomotives. Not sure that is the green answer you are looking for. When we all have electric vehicles and most of our power comes from carbon free sources why are we bothered about trains when they don't take those outside cities from door to door. This is the elephant in the room the greens miss in that if technology makes something green then they lose their objection. Why not another motorway when everything on it is green for example.elbowloh said:
Your experience is completely wrong, which is why we're investing in rail.rick_chasey said:I get that we are in a sort of neo victorian world where we have to rely on a few ultra rich benefactors to make interesting technological developments and blame the poor for their own poverty, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised everyone gets a hard on over rail.
My experience of rail is that it is abhorrently expensive and British rail cannot cope with any increased demand, and any attempt to improve capacity is met with shrieking nimbyism that massively increases the cost of it.
Plus we need to if we want to meet climate change targets.
Where would you build new motorway (s)
The M25 is 5 or 6 lanes in each direction in places now and still comes to a halt regularly. There is no motorway that can be built that won't fill up with traffic as soon as it's open.
From previous conversations we know that some people on here (including myself) believe that it is possible to be inside the M25 and be in the sticks. There are other people who would rather chew their arm off than live within 50 miles of London.
As you live in the least densely populated part on England I am assuming that you are in the latter category. What I do not get is why you are so worked up about the population density in the south east?
I love the tower blocks and think the previously mentioned Elephant and Castle was a total sh1thole that should have been bulldozed long ago and that the new tower blocks are beautiful. What I don't do is get angry about the lack of towers in Hawkshead and the lack of decent restaurants and in particular the absence of authentic foreign cuisine.
So I have tried not to be confrontational because I am genuinely interested in the population density where you don't live and have no reason to go?
As a side line to this unless your hobbies are exclusively related to city life then using public transport is pretty awkward. Kayaking in a lake, going to a sailing event or going walking are all pretty difficult without a car. Me giving you my view on the state of current UK cities is not getting angry it is just giving you my view.There are 2.56m cars licensed in London. This equates to an average of 0.3 cars per adult. In total, 46 per cent of households do not have a car, 40 per cent have one car and 12 per cent have two or more cars, with very few households owning more than two cars.
Figures for Cumbria are notably higher at 70% of households with access to one or more cars.
The roads are still busy because London is a big place with roughly 20 times the population of Cumbria.0 -
You know you are arguing against your own pointjohn80 said:
If I have read your figures correctly London has 40% plus 12% means 52% of Londoners have a car parked outside there house. Cumbria 70% of households have a car parked outside. So for a county with little to no public transport we have not many more cars outside houses compared to a city with excellent in comparison transport links. It is almost as if most Londoners want or need a car. Go figure.rjsterry said:
Some figures.john80 said:
Come on mate. I know four people that live in London and the streets are full of cars. Someone owns them. So maybe I have been too specific in my prior statement so thanks for being pedantic. However the point still stands if you care to take a look on a lot of London's streets may e Google earth is lying and has placed imaginary cars there.rjsterry said:
No. We don't. We have functioning public transport because there are enough of us in a small space to make it worthwhile. We also live within a cyclable distance of work. There is sailing and kayaking in the docks or the River Lea if that's your thing. I have a book of 50 walks - all decent length in nice countryside (granted no mountains) and all within 1hr of Central London railway station. There are numerous climbing walls. Have you ever actually visited a city?john80 said:
I don't get the last paragraph however I don't have to live somewhere to have a view on the situation. You think it is dandy and I don't. The problem is that to significantly improve the quality of life of those that live there you are going to have to go pretty big and I don't think that is realistic. The main issue is that everyone needs something different. City dwellers all drive cars when in reality if they got rid of them and changed the infrastructure round to cycling, walking and zero emission public transport they would be better off assuming they work locally. Myself in the sticks I can get a zero emission vehicle but the distances are too large and the population too sparse to make the above work.surrey_commuter said:
OK, I am genuinely baffled.john80 said:
Given motorways are the local roads now maybe the answer is a second set of them for automated cars. At least 50 miles between exits and automated cars only. Could be the new form of public transport that is door to door. You just have to drive the first and last 50 miles yourself. We need to face facts that is the population growth wanters get their way we need to either start growing cities up to reduce urban sprawl and keep mass transport systems efficient. Or we need to start developing the less well connected parts of the country and this means getting transport door to door in an efficient manner. Alternatively we can just turn the South West into a housing estate and live with the consequences. As has been pointed out I only have to deal with this about 10-20 times a year so crack on.rjsterry said:
So we now need a motorway with no connections to the surroundings? I grew up a couple of miles from the M4/M5 interchange. Bank Holiday jams on the M5 have been happening for at least the last 40-odd years; long before most of these housing developments were built.john80 said:
The guys that commute on the m5 might have a different take on this. We allowed an excessive number of junctions and housing developments next to them. Should we then deliver a rubbish experience when you use them as well.rjsterry said:
Building more motorways for the couple of weekends a year that everyone wants to drive to Cornwall is about as daft as it gets.john80 said:
M6 version two slap bang down the middle of the country. More roads into Cornwall or any other areas where there is congestion.surrey_commuter said:
I am not against building motorways but do think you get more bang for your buck upgrading existing routes, like the A14 you mentioned.john80 said:
Every freight train I have ever seen pulling loads is a couple of diesel locomotives. Not sure that is the green answer you are looking for. When we all have electric vehicles and most of our power comes from carbon free sources why are we bothered about trains when they don't take those outside cities from door to door. This is the elephant in the room the greens miss in that if technology makes something green then they lose their objection. Why not another motorway when everything on it is green for example.elbowloh said:
Your experience is completely wrong, which is why we're investing in rail.rick_chasey said:I get that we are in a sort of neo victorian world where we have to rely on a few ultra rich benefactors to make interesting technological developments and blame the poor for their own poverty, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised everyone gets a hard on over rail.
My experience of rail is that it is abhorrently expensive and British rail cannot cope with any increased demand, and any attempt to improve capacity is met with shrieking nimbyism that massively increases the cost of it.
Plus we need to if we want to meet climate change targets.
Where would you build new motorway (s)
The M25 is 5 or 6 lanes in each direction in places now and still comes to a halt regularly. There is no motorway that can be built that won't fill up with traffic as soon as it's open.
From previous conversations we know that some people on here (including myself) believe that it is possible to be inside the M25 and be in the sticks. There are other people who would rather chew their arm off than live within 50 miles of London.
As you live in the least densely populated part on England I am assuming that you are in the latter category. What I do not get is why you are so worked up about the population density in the south east?
I love the tower blocks and think the previously mentioned Elephant and Castle was a total sh1thole that should have been bulldozed long ago and that the new tower blocks are beautiful. What I don't do is get angry about the lack of towers in Hawkshead and the lack of decent restaurants and in particular the absence of authentic foreign cuisine.
So I have tried not to be confrontational because I am genuinely interested in the population density where you don't live and have no reason to go?
As a side line to this unless your hobbies are exclusively related to city life then using public transport is pretty awkward. Kayaking in a lake, going to a sailing event or going walking are all pretty difficult without a car. Me giving you my view on the state of current UK cities is not getting angry it is just giving you my view.There are 2.56m cars licensed in London. This equates to an average of 0.3 cars per adult. In total, 46 per cent of households do not have a car, 40 per cent have one car and 12 per cent have two or more cars, with very few households owning more than two cars.
Figures for Cumbria are notably higher at 70% of households with access to one or more cars.
The roads are still busy because London is a big place with roughly 20 times the population of Cumbria.
Come on mate. I know four people that live in London and the streets are full of cars. Someone owns them. So maybe I have been too specific in my prior statement so thanks for being pedantic. However the point still stands if you care to take a look on a lot of London's streets may e Google earth is lying and has placed imaginary cars there.
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I am going to channel my inner Rick and say there are fewer cars in London because of the younger age profile.
Or it could be because people without cars move to London0 -
This is a symptom of population density right? The more people live in a given square km, the fewer of them need to have a car for the streets to be "full". I used to live a in a large house that had been converted to 6 flats in London, we didn't have a car nor did everyone else who lived there, but enough of them did for the drive to be full.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
People drive less because the roads are full of traffic.
There's a lot of people.0 -
Owning a car in London is a pain in the arse and really expensive. Certainly in zone 1 or 2 there is absolutely no need to own a car and it is just a chain around your necksurrey_commuter said:I am going to channel my inner Rick and say there are fewer cars in London because of the younger age profile.
Or it could be because people without cars move to London0 -
Even in Kingston Z6 it wasn't worth it when we were there - we would have needed it so rarely it was better to rent one a couple of times a year.rick_chasey said:
Owning a car in London is a pain in the censored and really expensive. Certainly in zone 1 or 2 there is absolutely no need to own a car and it is just a chain around your necksurrey_commuter said:I am going to channel my inner Rick and say there are fewer cars in London because of the younger age profile.
Or it could be because people without cars move to London
Now with kids it might be a different equation I guess. Possibly not though.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Certainly feel car ownership is more of a lifestyle choice/projection of the type of person you want to be in the big smoke.
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Or the rivers, canals or reservoirs.john80 said:
Nah you just need to limit yourself to canoeing in the docks.kingstongraham said:
We need them to go places that don't have decent public transport.john80 said:
If I have read your figures correctly London has 40% plus 12% means 52% of Londoners have a car parked outside there house. Cumbria 70% of households have a car parked outside. So for a county with little to no public transport we have not many more cars outside houses compared to a city with excellent in comparison transport links. It is almost as if most Londoners want or need a car. Go figure.rjsterry said:
Some figures.john80 said:
Come on mate. I know four people that live in London and the streets are full of cars. Someone owns them. So maybe I have been too specific in my prior statement so thanks for being pedantic. However the point still stands if you care to take a look on a lot of London's streets may e Google earth is lying and has placed imaginary cars there.rjsterry said:
No. We don't. We have functioning public transport because there are enough of us in a small space to make it worthwhile. We also live within a cyclable distance of work. There is sailing and kayaking in the docks or the River Lea if that's your thing. I have a book of 50 walks - all decent length in nice countryside (granted no mountains) and all within 1hr of Central London railway station. There are numerous climbing walls. Have you ever actually visited a city?john80 said:
I don't get the last paragraph however I don't have to live somewhere to have a view on the situation. You think it is dandy and I don't. The problem is that to significantly improve the quality of life of those that live there you are going to have to go pretty big and I don't think that is realistic. The main issue is that everyone needs something different. City dwellers all drive cars when in reality if they got rid of them and changed the infrastructure round to cycling, walking and zero emission public transport they would be better off assuming they work locally. Myself in the sticks I can get a zero emission vehicle but the distances are too large and the population too sparse to make the above work.surrey_commuter said:
OK, I am genuinely baffled.john80 said:
Given motorways are the local roads now maybe the answer is a second set of them for automated cars. At least 50 miles between exits and automated cars only. Could be the new form of public transport that is door to door. You just have to drive the first and last 50 miles yourself. We need to face facts that is the population growth wanters get their way we need to either start growing cities up to reduce urban sprawl and keep mass transport systems efficient. Or we need to start developing the less well connected parts of the country and this means getting transport door to door in an efficient manner. Alternatively we can just turn the South West into a housing estate and live with the consequences. As has been pointed out I only have to deal with this about 10-20 times a year so crack on.rjsterry said:
So we now need a motorway with no connections to the surroundings? I grew up a couple of miles from the M4/M5 interchange. Bank Holiday jams on the M5 have been happening for at least the last 40-odd years; long before most of these housing developments were built.john80 said:
The guys that commute on the m5 might have a different take on this. We allowed an excessive number of junctions and housing developments next to them. Should we then deliver a rubbish experience when you use them as well.rjsterry said:
Building more motorways for the couple of weekends a year that everyone wants to drive to Cornwall is about as daft as it gets.john80 said:
M6 version two slap bang down the middle of the country. More roads into Cornwall or any other areas where there is congestion.surrey_commuter said:
I am not against building motorways but do think you get more bang for your buck upgrading existing routes, like the A14 you mentioned.john80 said:
Every freight train I have ever seen pulling loads is a couple of diesel locomotives. Not sure that is the green answer you are looking for. When we all have electric vehicles and most of our power comes from carbon free sources why are we bothered about trains when they don't take those outside cities from door to door. This is the elephant in the room the greens miss in that if technology makes something green then they lose their objection. Why not another motorway when everything on it is green for example.elbowloh said:
Your experience is completely wrong, which is why we're investing in rail.rick_chasey said:I get that we are in a sort of neo victorian world where we have to rely on a few ultra rich benefactors to make interesting technological developments and blame the poor for their own poverty, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised everyone gets a hard on over rail.
My experience of rail is that it is abhorrently expensive and British rail cannot cope with any increased demand, and any attempt to improve capacity is met with shrieking nimbyism that massively increases the cost of it.
Plus we need to if we want to meet climate change targets.
Where would you build new motorway (s)
The M25 is 5 or 6 lanes in each direction in places now and still comes to a halt regularly. There is no motorway that can be built that won't fill up with traffic as soon as it's open.
From previous conversations we know that some people on here (including myself) believe that it is possible to be inside the M25 and be in the sticks. There are other people who would rather chew their arm off than live within 50 miles of London.
As you live in the least densely populated part on England I am assuming that you are in the latter category. What I do not get is why you are so worked up about the population density in the south east?
I love the tower blocks and think the previously mentioned Elephant and Castle was a total sh1thole that should have been bulldozed long ago and that the new tower blocks are beautiful. What I don't do is get angry about the lack of towers in Hawkshead and the lack of decent restaurants and in particular the absence of authentic foreign cuisine.
So I have tried not to be confrontational because I am genuinely interested in the population density where you don't live and have no reason to go?
As a side line to this unless your hobbies are exclusively related to city life then using public transport is pretty awkward. Kayaking in a lake, going to a sailing event or going walking are all pretty difficult without a car. Me giving you my view on the state of current UK cities is not getting angry it is just giving you my view.There are 2.56m cars licensed in London. This equates to an average of 0.3 cars per adult. In total, 46 per cent of households do not have a car, 40 per cent have one car and 12 per cent have two or more cars, with very few households owning more than two cars.
Figures for Cumbria are notably higher at 70% of households with access to one or more cars.
The roads are still busy because London is a big place with roughly 20 times the population of Cumbria.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Get yourself to Copenhagen and see what good city life is like. Over 50% of journeys by bike with good segregated infrastructure. The cars that are there seem to be able to drive around in rush hour. When you do your compulsory purchase to bulldoze all the existing London housing you can have your wide spaces similar to Copenhagen with skyscrapers in the middle. You could even build in underground electric car parking with charging stations to clean up that lovely London smog you have. Utopia people utopia.0
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I think you are struggling with scale, in terms of area London is nearly 20 times bigger.john80 said:Get yourself to Copenhagen and see what good city life is like. Over 50% of journeys by bike with good segregated infrastructure. The cars that are there seem to be able to drive around in rush hour. When you do your compulsory purchase to bulldoze all the existing London housing you can have your wide spaces similar to Copenhagen with skyscrapers in the middle. You could even build in underground electric car parking with charging stations to clean up that lovely London smog you have. Utopia people utopia.
And you can keep your compulsory purchase of homes to Cumbria, you can't just project your paranoid fantasies onto other people.
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If only a load of plonkers hadn't made it much more difficult to go work in Copenhagen.
Oh well.0 -
London has roughly twice the population of Denmark.surrey_commuter said:
I think you are struggling with scale, in terms of area London is nearly 20 times bigger.john80 said:Get yourself to Copenhagen and see what good city life is like. Over 50% of journeys by bike with good segregated infrastructure. The cars that are there seem to be able to drive around in rush hour. When you do your compulsory purchase to bulldoze all the existing London housing you can have your wide spaces similar to Copenhagen with skyscrapers in the middle. You could even build in underground electric car parking with charging stations to clean up that lovely London smog you have. Utopia people utopia.
And you can keep your compulsory purchase of homes to Cumbria, you can't just project your paranoid fantasies onto other people.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Sounds like you're making the case to improve cycling infrastructure in London, I'd be all for that and take more cars off the road.john80 said:Get yourself to Copenhagen and see what good city life is like. Over 50% of journeys by bike with good segregated infrastructure. The cars that are there seem to be able to drive around in rush hour. When you do your compulsory purchase to bulldoze all the existing London housing you can have your wide spaces similar to Copenhagen with skyscrapers in the middle. You could even build in underground electric car parking with charging stations to clean up that lovely London smog you have. Utopia people utopia.
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No milk in sainsburys here for the last few days, I assume it's not just one shop.
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You need to look beyond car ownership and at the miles those cars travel. I haven't been able to find the data but I suspect the annual mileage driving by a London resident is significantly below that of the UK average with inner London being quite substantially lower than Greater London.
My colleagues use trip rate surveys to predict traffic flows for new developments and the software has to be toggled to exclude London for any sites outside the capital. There's a reason for that. Likewise, London is one of the few areas where you can create car free developments i.e. no parking provision needs to be provided.
Much as I prefer living semi-rurally there is no doubt that urban areas are more sustainable, at least until remote working and online shopping become even more prevalent.1 -
There is nothing that makes London unable to copy others models and scale them up. What is London's existing model. Not particularly high density living, crowded narrow streets and mental air pollution. Kids who can't cycle to school on safety grounds. Christ you will have diesel buses idling in the centre for another ten years at least. It is the least ambitious city in terms of improving people's quality of life and health yet has all the capability to do so. It is actually quite embarrassing.surrey_commuter said:
I think you are struggling with scale, in terms of area London is nearly 20 times bigger.john80 said:Get yourself to Copenhagen and see what good city life is like. Over 50% of journeys by bike with good segregated infrastructure. The cars that are there seem to be able to drive around in rush hour. When you do your compulsory purchase to bulldoze all the existing London housing you can have your wide spaces similar to Copenhagen with skyscrapers in the middle. You could even build in underground electric car parking with charging stations to clean up that lovely London smog you have. Utopia people utopia.
And you can keep your compulsory purchase of homes to Cumbria, you can't just project your paranoid fantasies onto other people.
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That will most likely be true however the Harm done by those vehicles will be proportionally worse. Emissions and air pollution will be much worse as your roads are busier. The effects on non motorists by motorists will be worse as they are not segregated from a safety point of view due to traffic density and lack of alternative space.Pross said:You need to look beyond car ownership and at the miles those cars travel. I haven't been able to find the data but I suspect the annual mileage driving by a London resident is significantly below that of the UK average with inner London being quite substantially lower than Greater London.
My colleagues use trip rate surveys to predict traffic flows for new developments and the software has to be toggled to exclude London for any sites outside the capital. There's a reason for that. Likewise, London is one of the few areas where you can create car free developments i.e. no parking provision needs to be provided.
Much as I prefer living semi-rurally there is no doubt that urban areas are more sustainable, at least until remote working and online shopping become even more prevalent.0 -
I agree currently live London & West Yorkshire really not unusual to see 3-5 cars parked in driveway in West Yorkshire and you really do need a car to get around some areas. London you can easily live without a car, I have a lot of friends that dont and cant drive.surrey_commuter said:I am going to channel my inner Rick and say there are fewer cars in London because of the younger age profile.
Or it could be because people without cars move to LondonSo Far!0 -
Can you really not see the difference in scalingup journeys from 3 miles to 20 miles?john80 said:
There is nothing that makes London unable to copy others models and scale them up. What is London's existing model. Not particularly high density living, crowded narrow streets and mental air pollution. Kids who can't cycle to school on safety grounds. Christ you will have diesel buses idling in the centre for another ten years at least. It is the least ambitious city in terms of improving people's quality of life and health yet has all the capability to do so. It is actually quite embarrassing.surrey_commuter said:
I think you are struggling with scale, in terms of area London is nearly 20 times bigger.john80 said:Get yourself to Copenhagen and see what good city life is like. Over 50% of journeys by bike with good segregated infrastructure. The cars that are there seem to be able to drive around in rush hour. When you do your compulsory purchase to bulldoze all the existing London housing you can have your wide spaces similar to Copenhagen with skyscrapers in the middle. You could even build in underground electric car parking with charging stations to clean up that lovely London smog you have. Utopia people utopia.
And you can keep your compulsory purchase of homes to Cumbria, you can't just project your paranoid fantasies onto other people.0 -
I think pollution in central London is probably one issue that parents are guilty of ignoring. Hopefully it will be change as a result of decarbonisation.0
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Today was the first time in ages I've driven past Avonmouth... what's happened to the thousands of new cars and vans that used to be parked up in those massive yards? One almost empty, the other about 2/3 empty. Has something happened to change that?0
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Hmm hadn't noticed that. I guess it has been a couple of months since I went that way but there were still lots there fairly recently.briantrumpet said:Today was the first time in ages I've driven past Avonmouth... what's happened to the thousands of new cars and vans that used to be parked up in those massive yards? One almost empty, the other about 2/3 empty. Has something happened to change that?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I think they still have production problems due to to a shortage of electronicspangolin said:
Hmm hadn't noticed that. I guess it has been a couple of months since I went that way but there were still lots there fairly recently.briantrumpet said:Today was the first time in ages I've driven past Avonmouth... what's happened to the thousands of new cars and vans that used to be parked up in those massive yards? One almost empty, the other about 2/3 empty. Has something happened to change that?
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Reduce the training to drive 40 tonne artics through towns.
Great plan, what could possibly go wrong...TheBigBean said:Speeding up HGV testing process
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-584873470 -
It is absolutely bizarremonkimark said:Reduce the training to drive 40 tonne artics through towns.
Great plan, what could possibly go wrong...TheBigBean said:Speeding up HGV testing process
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-584873470 -
pangolin said:
Hmm hadn't noticed that. I guess it has been a couple of months since I went that way but there were still lots there fairly recently.briantrumpet said:Today was the first time in ages I've driven past Avonmouth... what's happened to the thousands of new cars and vans that used to be parked up in those massive yards? One almost empty, the other about 2/3 empty. Has something happened to change that?
Both used to be absolutely rammed, and had been for years. The contrast, to my eyes, was stark.0
