BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Sure, but you understand what I am driving at here.surrey_commuter said:
I am obviously not one of them but to me it makes perfect sense but then I see it as an ongoing negotiationrick_chasey said:And do any of the EU "undemocratic" critics have a view on the unelected bureaucrat Frost being put in charge of UK-EU relationships?
I mean, since none of you bothered to do the reading (well, DD did) on what Hammond had to say about his time as chancellor, but it is remarkable how few people were involved in the strategic decisions the UK made with respect to Brexit.
It was basically May and her advisors. None of the MPs were ever consulted until they had to vote on it and even then it was whipped.
I am ok with people being in favour of this, but only if they extend the same courtesy to other institutions.
I am fully accepting that some things are best left to professional bureaucrats and not politicians but I extend that acceptance to international bodies like the EU as well as in the UK.0 -
Of course they don't actually believe in any of that guff about unelected foreign bureaucrats themselves (beyond a resentment that others had some power) . It was always mostly a useful way to motivate voters.rick_chasey said:
Sure, but you understand what I am driving at here.surrey_commuter said:
I am obviously not one of them but to me it makes perfect sense but then I see it as an ongoing negotiationrick_chasey said:And do any of the EU "undemocratic" critics have a view on the unelected bureaucrat Frost being put in charge of UK-EU relationships?
I mean, since none of you bothered to do the reading (well, DD did) on what Hammond had to say about his time as chancellor, but it is remarkable how few people were involved in the strategic decisions the UK made with respect to Brexit.
It was basically May and her advisors. None of the MPs were ever consulted until they had to vote on it and even then it was whipped.
I am ok with people being in favour of this, but only if they extend the same courtesy to other institutions.
I am fully accepting that some things are best left to professional bureaucrats and not politicians but I extend that acceptance to international bodies like the EU as well as in the UK.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Work out how much of your 7% is reliant on earning that money in the EU and get back to me. When you get close to fishing where are you going to go then with your argument.rjsterry said:
We're not talking about immigration. The issue is the restrictions on being able to make working visits to the EU. The sniping was aimed at you dismissing 7% of the UK economy as a few stand up comedians and musicians.john80 said:
You constant critique of me is mildly amusing. I want a points based system that we hold governments to account for every 5 years. If you want an exception for groups then feel free to make the case and maybe say Labour or the Tories can sell that to the electorate. Moaning at me for not wanting to have loophole after loophole whilst sniping that I could not possibly understand the intricacies of the creative industries is a rather weak argument.rjsterry said:
No, I think John is quite happy with exceptions that suit him.surrey_commuter said:Not often I agree with John but if you are going to inflict permanent economic harm at the cost of hundreds of billions to keep foreigners out then at least do it properly.
The list of suggested exceptions made the whole thing pointless, students, doctors, nurses, seasonal workers, chefs, au pairs, care home staff, people earning over £26k and now you want to add creative industries- why bother?
Lucky for the Irish that these tvvats see them as British as they are always near the top of the charts for immigration by country0 -
Well in fairness you were arguing on a different topic that engineers could not possibly have know that combustible cladding could possibly be combustible when its inner layer was combustible. So on that measure of accountability you were arguing that anyone could do anyone's job as it would appear you don't have to know anything.Pross said:
Of course he has. John can do any job and show those who do it for a living how to do it better. He's like the antithesis of the character on The Fast Show that did the "hardest job in the world" catchphrase. "Teaching? Easiest job in the world all them holidays and avoiding going to work in a pandemic". "Touring musician? Easiest job in the world, fill in a few bits of paper then tour the world doing booze and drugs with some groupies on the tour bus".briantrumpet said:john80 said:When Henning Wehn is back on 8 out of ten cats does countdown after filling out the paperwork that is going to burst a few peoples bubble.
Have you got any idea how touring works?0 -
😂john80 said:
Work out how much of your 7% is reliant on earning that money in the EU and get back to me. When you get close to fishing where are you going to go then with your argument.rjsterry said:
We're not talking about immigration. The issue is the restrictions on being able to make working visits to the EU. The sniping was aimed at you dismissing 7% of the UK economy as a few stand up comedians and musicians.john80 said:
You constant critique of me is mildly amusing. I want a points based system that we hold governments to account for every 5 years. If you want an exception for groups then feel free to make the case and maybe say Labour or the Tories can sell that to the electorate. Moaning at me for not wanting to have loophole after loophole whilst sniping that I could not possibly understand the intricacies of the creative industries is a rather weak argument.rjsterry said:
No, I think John is quite happy with exceptions that suit him.surrey_commuter said:Not often I agree with John but if you are going to inflict permanent economic harm at the cost of hundreds of billions to keep foreigners out then at least do it properly.
The list of suggested exceptions made the whole thing pointless, students, doctors, nurses, seasonal workers, chefs, au pairs, care home staff, people earning over £26k and now you want to add creative industries- why bother?
Lucky for the Irish that these tvvats see them as British as they are always near the top of the charts for immigration by country
Fishing is 70 times smaller than the creative industries. So if just 1.5% of the creative industries output relies on access to the EU, then that is larger than the entire UK fishing industry.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.0 -
I thought brexit had phucked the fishermen up too anyway.rjsterry said:
😂john80 said:
Work out how much of your 7% is reliant on earning that money in the EU and get back to me. When you get close to fishing where are you going to go then with your argument.rjsterry said:
We're not talking about immigration. The issue is the restrictions on being able to make working visits to the EU. The sniping was aimed at you dismissing 7% of the UK economy as a few stand up comedians and musicians.john80 said:
You constant critique of me is mildly amusing. I want a points based system that we hold governments to account for every 5 years. If you want an exception for groups then feel free to make the case and maybe say Labour or the Tories can sell that to the electorate. Moaning at me for not wanting to have loophole after loophole whilst sniping that I could not possibly understand the intricacies of the creative industries is a rather weak argument.rjsterry said:
No, I think John is quite happy with exceptions that suit him.surrey_commuter said:Not often I agree with John but if you are going to inflict permanent economic harm at the cost of hundreds of billions to keep foreigners out then at least do it properly.
The list of suggested exceptions made the whole thing pointless, students, doctors, nurses, seasonal workers, chefs, au pairs, care home staff, people earning over £26k and now you want to add creative industries- why bother?
Lucky for the Irish that these tvvats see them as British as they are always near the top of the charts for immigration by country
Fishing is 70 times smaller than the creative industries. So if just 1.5% of the creative industries output relies on access to the EU, then that is larger than the entire UK fishing industry.0 -
And the italians. And 25000 dutch that joined the SS.Pross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.0 -
Pross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
Firstly that was our fight, we were defending the empire and (parts of) the commonwealthPross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
Secondly we were primarily doing so with non- British troops.
Rick’s point is that the European war was nothing to do with the US, yet they provided 80% of the troops on D-Day0 -
They had t,o or Europe would belong to Russia.surrey_commuter said:Pross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
Firstly that was our fight, we were defending the empire and (parts of) the commonwealthPross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
Secondly we were primarily doing so with non- British troops.
Rick’s point is that the European war was nothing to do with the US, yet they provided 80% of the troops on D-Day0 -
darkhairedlord said:
And the italians. And 25000 dutch that joined the SS.Pross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
This place is like an old people’s home4 -
Bordering on the absurd when you put it like that.surrey_commuter said:Pross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
Firstly that was our fight, we were defending the empire and (parts of) the commonwealthPross said:
We had a fair few committed to the war with the Japanese too though.surrey_commuter said:
One of us is not getting his point.bompington said:
I'm sure the 100,000 or so American personnel killed fighting against Japan would be delighted to hear this.rick_chasey said:
It still blows my mind to this day that the US would heavily intervene in a European civil war *twice*surrey_commuter said:
Attacking Russia wasn’t the best idea.rick_chasey said:
Fair enough.surrey_commuter said:
Think of it as a conversation starter.rick_chasey said:
Really intrigued how you arrived at this conclusionsurrey_commuter said:
Germany declaring war on the USArjsterry said:
2nd?surrey_commuter said:
You need to stop looking at Brexit as the 2nd dumbest thing a nation has ever done.rick_chasey said:Pandemic could not have been worse timed in terms of Brexit, really.
OK sure, it keeps Brexit costs off the front pages but you really don't want any drags on growth whatsoever to get out of this mess and even the most ardent brexit leaders have said there are short-medium term drags (10 year period was what raab was going on about last week).
Perhaps SC will be here to say all the stockpiling for Brexit helped pandemic preps and maybe that is the case, but then you'd expect the RoW to have suffered from that.
If you believe in Brexit then a global pandemic is a stroke of good luck.
Reduction in trade takes pressure off borders
Reduction in travel takes pressure off borders
Economy hammered by 10% makes 0.5-1% seem irrelevant
Distracts people from negative impacts and hopefully deaths stay high until people get used to it
In all honesty I am not convinced it will be a worse decision than Brexit will turn out to be.
I mean, I’d argue that that wasn’t even worst decision (in terms of trying to win and/or survive ...) that war for Germany.
I was reading about Nuremberg and they asked Goering why they declared war on USA, he was incredulous that they did. That was either because he was a smack or the widely held belief that USA would declare war on Japan and them.
I know what you're getting at but there is perhaps at least some reason why they're called "world" wars.
My interpretation is that the logical thing for them to do was to carry on doing enough to keep us from defeat whilst they got on with fighting the Japanese. Rather than break the first rule of war to not fight on two fronts.
Secondly we were primarily doing so with non- British troops.
Rick’s point is that the European war was nothing to do with the US, yet they provided 80% of the troops on D-Day1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
@briantrumpet : if building a tunnel under the Irish Sea is being seriously considered, I think this is worth a punt. I reckon Watchet to Exeter looks like a good route.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
@briantrumpet : if building a tunnel under the Irish Sea is being seriously considered, I think this is worth a punt. I reckon Watchet to Exeter looks like a good route.
Well, we've already got part of it already - the Exeter Ship Canal! 3 miles down just 47 to go, and a few hills...0 -
It doesn’t go anyway to justifying Brexit but it is positive to remove several hundred daily road trips by left hand drive lorries just passing through on the way to Ireland.0
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Why do I get the feeling that certain members of the Tory Party and The Telegraph would view this with glee?
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There is no "shellfish blockade". This is just a natural consequence of the TCA. This is what it was designed to do: to remove the UK from any and all alignment with EU rules. It is not an accident. Frost and Co were aware of this and did it anyway.
Being cynical, one might suggest that these problems are part of the plan to maintain a sense of grievance at the EU.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
There is no "shellfish blockade". This is just a natural consequence of the TCA. This is what it was designed to do: to remove the UK from any and all alignment with EU rules. It is not an accident. Frost and Co were aware of this and did it anyway.
Being cynical, one might suggest that these problems are part of the plan to maintain a sense of grievance at the EU.
I'm not sure it's a plan (even though I'm cynical), just the mindset of a sizeable proportion to turn anything they don't like (including stuff they've signed up to) into an opportunity to blame the EU for pretty much anything they don't like about the way the world now works. And now they can't influence the EU from the inside, their idea of diplomacy is threatening trade wars.0 -
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rick_chasey said:
Through the prism of cakeism everything that doesn’t benefit Britain is EU outright hostility.
I don't know if it's a feigned or a real childish ego-centrism.0 -
I find Stevo’s logic a useful insight into the logic.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:Through the prism of cakeism everything that doesn’t benefit Britain is EU outright hostility.
I don't know if it's a feigned or a real childish ego-centrism.
It was all about sovereignty and now it’s done anything the EU does that isn’t in the UK’s interest is cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Take the efforts to wrestle large chunks of FS off London.
I mean, the EU has a history of playing hardball with Switzerland on this topic but all Stevo can see is “making this more expensive for themselves” rather than a longer term play to have some sovereignty over the services the EU uses.0 -
It get's a bit boring just fighting the same biased corner. Why don't you both agree to flip sides and argue from the opposite perspective?rick_chasey said:
I find Stevo’s logic a useful insight into the logic.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:Through the prism of cakeism everything that doesn’t benefit Britain is EU outright hostility.
I don't know if it's a feigned or a real childish ego-centrism.
It was all about sovereignty and now it’s done anything the EU does that isn’t in the UK’s interest is cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Take the efforts to wrestle large chunks of FS off London.
I mean, the EU has a history of playing hardball with Switzerland on this topic but all Stevo can see is “making this more expensive for themselves” rather than a longer term play to have some sovereignty over the services the EU uses.0 -
The whole thread is a bit boring these days tbh. Just the same old stuff from the same people on a repeating loop. Although I will drop in from time to time to see how the whingeathon is goingfocuszing723 said:
It get's a bit boring just fighting the same biased corner. Why don't you both agree to flip sides and argue from the opposite perspective?rick_chasey said:
I find Stevo’s logic a useful insight into the logic.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:Through the prism of cakeism everything that doesn’t benefit Britain is EU outright hostility.
I don't know if it's a feigned or a real childish ego-centrism.
It was all about sovereignty and now it’s done anything the EU does that isn’t in the UK’s interest is cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Take the efforts to wrestle large chunks of FS off London.
I mean, the EU has a history of playing hardball with Switzerland on this topic but all Stevo can see is “making this more expensive for themselves” rather than a longer term play to have some sovereignty over the services the EU uses.
Fyi I've largely dropped Brexit from the agenda the work front and am picking up with more important things."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
It does make sense to concentrate on things you can change.Stevo_666 said:
The whole thread is a bit boring these days tbh. Just the same old stuff from the same people on a repeating loop. Although I will drop in from time to time to see how the whingeathon is goingfocuszing723 said:
It get's a bit boring just fighting the same biased corner. Why don't you both agree to flip sides and argue from the opposite perspective?rick_chasey said:
I find Stevo’s logic a useful insight into the logic.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:Through the prism of cakeism everything that doesn’t benefit Britain is EU outright hostility.
I don't know if it's a feigned or a real childish ego-centrism.
It was all about sovereignty and now it’s done anything the EU does that isn’t in the UK’s interest is cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Take the efforts to wrestle large chunks of FS off London.
I mean, the EU has a history of playing hardball with Switzerland on this topic but all Stevo can see is “making this more expensive for themselves” rather than a longer term play to have some sovereignty over the services the EU uses.
Fyi I've largely dropped Brexit from the agenda the work front and am picking up with more important things.2 -
I’ll point you to the relevant posts if you want.focuszing723 said:
It get's a bit boring just fighting the same biased corner. Why don't you both agree to flip sides and argue from the opposite perspective?rick_chasey said:
I find Stevo’s logic a useful insight into the logic.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:Through the prism of cakeism everything that doesn’t benefit Britain is EU outright hostility.
I don't know if it's a feigned or a real childish ego-centrism.
It was all about sovereignty and now it’s done anything the EU does that isn’t in the UK’s interest is cutting their nose off to spite their face.
Take the efforts to wrestle large chunks of FS off London.
I mean, the EU has a history of playing hardball with Switzerland on this topic but all Stevo can see is “making this more expensive for themselves” rather than a longer term play to have some sovereignty over the services the EU uses.
I don’t know any Brexiters who will discuss it with me in real life (as the only one I know is my brother in law and the other is my boss)
FWIW from the outside in, saying you are “even handed” about Brexit is like saying you want to be “even handed” about trump.0 -
Well, The Telegraph seems determined to harp on about the EU...
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Surely the fact Frost now has a role in govt is an admission it will continue?
Gove himself is already trying to renegotiate bits.0 -
Not that The Telegraph is obssessed or anything with the EU and war analogies...
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