BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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It would seem companies dealing ex-EU and full loads are geared up for it. Some companies would only have traded with EU because it was easy.morstar said:
Read as much as the paywall would let me which was about 100 words.rick_chasey said:Who is saying that?
I feel people read these things and extrapolate the position to a point where it isn’t there.
Have you read the article? It refers specifically to small companies.
Your sub 20 fte firm does not have the scale go bridge the bureaucratic gap
The importers / exporters will find a way is my point.
The small shop the article leads with is in a bad spot. I’m not a Brexit supporter so not going to excuse that.
However, the German manufacturers of said products that have a worthwhile UK market are going to find a way to support that market in a best of a bad job way.
The opening suggestion is that they will simply walk away. Sure some will, but the gaps will get closed if the demand is there.
All these bike companies abandoning UK sales have given up due to hassle. Fair enough as bikes are in demand anyway so why deal with a more difficult market than you need to. Does that mean nobody is going to sell bikes in the UK? No.
It is a massive (and unnecessary) adjustment period but that is all it is with regard to imports.
It is the exports and outward trade where we have cut our arm off.
Surely exports will only be hit harder because of the size of the market we are excluding ourselves from.
This is what a slowing of economic growth looks like. The economy was 9.9% smaller last year than it would have been without C19. When do we think the economy will be 9.9% smaller because of Brexit? I am going to plump for 2030.
The good news is that we have probably already done 3% and after a rocky year or to we should slide more slowly.0 -
I think the exports are hit harder as the Eu can now get things that were previously convenient to get from Uk from anywhere else.
Some business will go to other internal countries, some will go to other third countries.
Yes brexiteers, that global sourcing works both ways.0 -
“To turn our backs on the world’s largest trading bloc, which is on our doorstep, in favour of trying to create trade deals with countries that couldn’t be further away, and have much smaller economies, is total stupidity and beyond comprehension,” he says.
“Covid has kept the Brexit issues out of the headlines, but to try and get a message across to our single- minded, short-sighted government, it needs to be in the headlines. I cannot think of one single positive benefit from Brexit, only negatives, and all my customers and contacts are of the same opinion.
“Britain used to be great but no longer,” he says, blaming Tory politicians at the top of government. “To adapt a phrase from our most famous leader, ‘Never in the field of British business has so much been destroyed for so many, by so few.’”
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/14/as-half-its-sales-are-wiped-out-silk-firm-joins-exodus-to-europeWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The counter side of that is that it was total stupidity in 2015 so the only thing that has changed is that more people now realise it which isn’t headline news.ddraver said:“To turn our backs on the world’s largest trading bloc, which is on our doorstep, in favour of trying to create trade deals with countries that couldn’t be further away, and have much smaller economies, is total stupidity and beyond comprehension,” he says.
“Covid has kept the Brexit issues out of the headlines, but to try and get a message across to our single- minded, short-sighted government, it needs to be in the headlines. I cannot think of one single positive benefit from Brexit, only negatives, and all my customers and contacts are of the same opinion.
“Britain used to be great but no longer,” he says, blaming Tory politicians at the top of government. “To adapt a phrase from our most famous leader, ‘Never in the field of British business has so much been destroyed for so many, by so few.’”
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/14/as-half-its-sales-are-wiped-out-silk-firm-joins-exodus-to-europe
This website has been keeping a list of the considerable upsides that DD promised, so it is wrong that there are no benefits
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/the-davis-downside-dossier/0 -
surrey_commuter said:
The counter side of that is that it was total stupidity in 2015 so the only thing that has changed is that more people now realise it which isn’t headline news.ddraver said:“To turn our backs on the world’s largest trading bloc, which is on our doorstep, in favour of trying to create trade deals with countries that couldn’t be further away, and have much smaller economies, is total stupidity and beyond comprehension,” he says.
“Covid has kept the Brexit issues out of the headlines, but to try and get a message across to our single- minded, short-sighted government, it needs to be in the headlines. I cannot think of one single positive benefit from Brexit, only negatives, and all my customers and contacts are of the same opinion.
“Britain used to be great but no longer,” he says, blaming Tory politicians at the top of government. “To adapt a phrase from our most famous leader, ‘Never in the field of British business has so much been destroyed for so many, by so few.’”
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/14/as-half-its-sales-are-wiped-out-silk-firm-joins-exodus-to-europe
This website has been keeping a list of the considerable upsides that DD promised, so it is wrong that there are no benefits
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/the-davis-downside-dossier/
Do you think David Davis is squinting really hard in the photo there trying to make out those upsides he promised? Or is he closing his eyes so he can't see the downsides??0 -
It's more of a criticism of the practice on here seizing on every headline with Brexit related issues (and there were always going to be issues) as proof of the apocalypse and that we must immediately rejoin. And we are not going back in the foreseeable, so what is the point?morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I understand it, but am pointing it out as it might be interesting for some to see that the EU is not above it.surrey_commuter said:
you do not understand the eu taking decisions on FS that are economically harmful to them.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
You are fully supportive of the UK taking decisions on FS that are economically harmful to them"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Being qualified as an accountant doesn't mean I know how much you get paid: how was I to know your pay is rubbish until you told me above? Although less pay is better than no pay, presumably?ddraver said:
This!elbowloh said:
Theres not much to make the most of at the moment. It's enough to make a thin gruel.
If the best thing to come out of Brexit is me getting a job that isn't where I want it to be and pays less that 50% of the old one...it ain't good.Stevo_666 said:From a forum member who owes his current job to Brexit. Irony?
You're an accountant, you should understand the numbers bit at least"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No one said they were.Stevo_666 said:
I understand it, but am pointing it out as it might be interesting for some to see that the EU is not above it.surrey_commuter said:
you do not understand the eu taking decisions on FS that are economically harmful to them.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
You are fully supportive of the UK taking decisions on FS that are economically harmful to them
UK is a rival now.
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Can you quote some examples of this?Stevo_666 said:
It's more of a criticism of the practice on here seizing on every headline with Brexit related issues (and there were always going to be issues) as proof of the apocalypse and that we must immediately rejoin. And we are not going back in the foreseeable, so what is the point?morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.
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Erm, if you're worried about VAT costs on online transactions or want to avoid them, HMRC has apparently reduced the checks on online sellers.
For example, between April and Dec 2020 HMRC sent 80 data requests to platforms about sellers using their services, down from 2,684 from the same period the year before.
HMRC is saying they don't have the resource to police it.
Of course, this means that firms with less scruples may undercut tax-compliant companies, but then, that's the sort of enterprising tax-lowering behaviour the gov't wants, right?0 -
On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?0 -
If like the rest of the world you will only find out when you receive the ransom demand from the delivery companyrick_chasey said:On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?0 -
Yeah I know it's put me off buying some stuff as I am very price elastic.surrey_commuter said:
If like the rest of the world you will only find out when you receive the ransom demand from the delivery companyrick_chasey said:On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?0 -
Impossible to be sure.rick_chasey said:
Yeah I know it's put me off buying some stuff as I am very price elastic.surrey_commuter said:
If like the rest of the world you will only find out when you receive the ransom demand from the delivery companyrick_chasey said:On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?
I have looked at two items of which I purchased 1 expecting to pay Vat a second time but they used Amazon logistics to ship it from / via UK and I paid no extra.
Another item I have hung my nose over states increased shipping time due to Brexit but the price still includes VAT. I am assuming they are bulk shipping from centralised Eu hub to a UK fulfilment hub on a special order basis and then selling locally in UK as it is a UK branded part of a global website. But am reticent to find out the hard way.0 -
Up to £135 consignment value, you should be charged vat by the seller, and have nothing more to pay. Over that, it's import vat and you should have more to pay.rick_chasey said:On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?
Don't know how you work out if the seller has done it right.0 -
Make sure you're ordering from Great Britain is the only really certain way now...
Otherwise you're running a risk.
(I learnt this in Switzerland but what is going to catch people out are sites like AlpineTrek.co.uk which are actually bergfreunde.de (or bergfreunde.ch, or alpiniste.fr but...bregfreunde.it etc etc
I ve just nearly been caught by a music store site that's actually based in the EU)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
You know the answer is to buy some overpriced British cr@p you bed wetting, woke, foreign traitorrick_chasey said:
Yeah I know it's put me off buying some stuff as I am very price elastic.surrey_commuter said:
If like the rest of the world you will only find out when you receive the ransom demand from the delivery companyrick_chasey said:On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?
Edited to add: and fvck off off home-1 -
Love that this got flaggedsurrey_commuter said:
You know the answer is to buy some overpriced British cr@p you bed wetting, woke, foreign traitorrick_chasey said:
Yeah I know it's put me off buying some stuff as I am very price elastic.surrey_commuter said:
If like the rest of the world you will only find out when you receive the ransom demand from the delivery companyrick_chasey said:On that note, what's the deal with purchases from the EU nowadays?
Does anyone have a simple rule you can apply to your purchases to work out if you're gonna be smacked with an extra vat bill at the other end or not?
Edited to add: and fvck off off home- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Yeah I would by British if it wasn't a nation of fat f*cks whose sizing doesn't work for people with a BMI of under 22.0
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Buy some proper British food and put some weight on then you skinny gitrick_chasey said:Yeah I would by British if it wasn't a nation of fat f*cks whose sizing doesn't work for people with a BMI of under 22.
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Have a look through this thread, I'm busykingstongraham said:
Can you quote some examples of this?Stevo_666 said:
It's more of a criticism of the practice on here seizing on every headline with Brexit related issues (and there were always going to be issues) as proof of the apocalypse and that we must immediately rejoin. And we are not going back in the foreseeable, so what is the point?morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I don't remember seeing any, hence the question. If it has been in response to every headline since we left, it can only be for the last 6 weeks, so should be quite straightforward for you to quickly find a large number of them.Stevo_666 said:
Have a look through this thread, I'm busykingstongraham said:
Can you quote some examples of this?Stevo_666 said:
It's more of a criticism of the practice on here seizing on every headline with Brexit related issues (and there were always going to be issues) as proof of the apocalypse and that we must immediately rejoin. And we are not going back in the foreseeable, so what is the point?morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.0 -
Crikey, don’t look at any US brands then.rick_chasey said:Yeah I would by British if it wasn't a nation of fat f*cks whose sizing doesn't work for people with a BMI of under 22.
Although I’d have thought buying lightweight cycling kit was hardly too challenging.
Large lads are far from the core of the fraternity.0 -
Thanks to forward-thinking Brexit pushers there will no doubt be increasing movement away from EU trade, not the least because our businesses are moving over there to avoid delays, paperwork, tariffs and other expenses. The sunlit uplands of Brexit should be visable on clear days if you look over the channel.Stevo_666 said:
Give it a few years and let's see what happens, rather than chucking theories around. It's not like you've got a lot of choice.rick_chasey said:
Stevo. You're not innumerate. Do the maths.Stevo_666 said:
Point has been made before but things are changing as it becomes easier to trade long distance. UK trade with the EU as a % of total trade was falling over time even while we were in the bloc. This will just accelerate the process as we become more outward looking.rick_chasey said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_tradeStevo_666 said:
Give it time - because you'll have to.antonyfromoz said:
We chose to become a third party country so we cannot complain when we get treated like one. I seem to recall a lot of enthusiasm from some on here about the wonderful freedom we would have away from the stifling EU - well now's our chance to grasp those opportunities that were apparently being denied to us but instead the gov are asking for an extension of the temporary arrangements from three months to three years.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
The difference between us is that you think that you can negotiate with the EU. Would you be happy for the UK to take all the EU non tariff barriers and put an equal amount on the EU's goods.kingstongraham said:
You are surprised that the single market has some non tariff barriers to entry? Or that the UK government wasn't interested in negotiating this particular one that we seem to be using as an example?john80 said:
My understanding is that a product produced in NI would be available for export to the EU as they are part of the single market. In the case of mussels they can be transported live to France and Depurated then sold on for human consumption. Essentially the EU have decided that removing this supply is of benefit to their populations as fishermen will likely get higher prices for the remaining product. Shame IG don't do a commodity in shellfish. You could make some money when prices go up next summer when the EU has managed to vaccinate its populations and restaurants are back open with large suppliers in the UK excluded. The removal of the cleaning procedure in the EU is just plain and simple market protectionism at the expense of consumers. There is no technical reason as to why the current arrangements could not continue from either an environmental or food standards point of view.kingstongraham said:
Sorry, I don't understand the answer to the question - it was about the current rules, not some imagined future.TheBigBean said:
Yes, so it would pose challenges for things like milk production which crosses the border a lot, but that is a consequence of Brexit. Sausage rolls shouldn't be a consequence of Brexit.kingstongraham said:
Would mussels produced in Northern Ireland be subject to the EU import rules that the Welsh ones are?TheBigBean said:
Yes, but NI is part of the UK, so GB sausage rolls would be fine for sale there. If someone in Ireland wanted to sell them, they would need to (i) find a way to launder them within their paperwork (ii) risk a spot check from the sausage roll customskingstongraham said:
That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
If someone in France wanted to consume the illicit sausage rolls, they would have to arrange for them to be shipped directly from Ireland, so even more laundered paperwork would be required, and as with many things it might just be easier to smuggle them across the Dover-Calais border instead.
If you look at the Sweden Norway border, some things are smuggled and traded in cash (I think garlic is one of them), but this only really affects small parts of Sweden, and not the entire EU, and is price Sweden is prepared to pay.
Obviously, I have no idea why the EU suddenly want its consumers to pay more for mussels either.
Are mussels produced in Northern Ireland allowed to go into the EU without going through the cleaning process that the EU rules say is required for imports from outside the EU? I'm just not sure what NI's alignment with the single market fully means.
We've just signed a bare-bones 'deal' with the EU that, as predicted, made just about everything we do with them more costly and difficult. None of this comes a surprise. Well, if it does come as a surprise, you really weren't paying attention. There's nothing new about the regulations on shellfish, only that they now apply to the UK too.
A quick reminder may be in order that 87% of the global economy that we interact with is not impacted by this. And that 87% is growing faster than the 13% that the EU represents. Just a spot of perspective0 -
And we can be sure that you and the other Brexit fans would be pointing to posititve headlines to show how right you were - and your silence about the positives is deafening. I remember the gloating, the triumphalism and now we have "we just have to wait and see, no good throwing theories around (even though that's what we did about the benefits of leaving), my company has had green lights for a week" - tragic, simply tragic.Stevo_666 said:
It's more of a criticism of the practice on here seizing on every headline with Brexit related issues (and there were always going to be issues) as proof of the apocalypse and that we must immediately rejoin. And we are not going back in the foreseeable, so what is the point?morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.0 -
Meh cycling kit is a mixed bag, so you learn which ranges fit and which don't.morstar said:
Crikey, don’t look at any US brands then.rick_chasey said:Yeah I would by British if it wasn't a nation of fat f*cks whose sizing doesn't work for people with a BMI of under 22.
Although I’d have thought buying lightweight cycling kit was hardly too challenging.
Large lads are far from the core of the fraternity.
Generally, I have always got around sizing issues for all clothesby going to Italian makes as they are shorter like me and they tend to go for closer fits, so they fit me will.
Belongs in trivially annoying things but why do normal high street shops only sell 28 waist trousers in 32 length but will sell 30 waist trousers with 30 length.
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Kids sizing is VAT free in the UK so I don't know why you are buyin that forin rubbish..rick_chasey said:
Meh cycling kit is a mixed bag, so you learn which ranges fit and which don't.morstar said:
Crikey, don’t look at any US brands then.rick_chasey said:Yeah I would by British if it wasn't a nation of fat f*cks whose sizing doesn't work for people with a BMI of under 22.
Although I’d have thought buying lightweight cycling kit was hardly too challenging.
Large lads are far from the core of the fraternity.
Generally, I have always got around sizing issues for all clothesby going to Italian makes as they are shorter like me and they tend to go for closer fits, so they fit me will.
Belongs in trivially annoying things but why do normal high street shops only sell 28 waist trousers in 32 length but will sell 30 waist trousers with 30 length.0 -
antonyfromoz said:
Thanks to forward-thinking Brexit pushers there will no doubt be increasing movement away from EU trade, not the least because our businesses are moving over there to avoid delays, paperwork, tariffs and other expenses. The sunlit uplands of Brexit should be visable on clear days if you look over the channel.Stevo_666 said:
Give it a few years and let's see what happens, rather than chucking theories around. It's not like you've got a lot of choice.rick_chasey said:
Stevo. You're not innumerate. Do the maths.Stevo_666 said:
Point has been made before but things are changing as it becomes easier to trade long distance. UK trade with the EU as a % of total trade was falling over time even while we were in the bloc. This will just accelerate the process as we become more outward looking.rick_chasey said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_tradeStevo_666 said:
Give it time - because you'll have to.antonyfromoz said:
We chose to become a third party country so we cannot complain when we get treated like one. I seem to recall a lot of enthusiasm from some on here about the wonderful freedom we would have away from the stifling EU - well now's our chance to grasp those opportunities that were apparently being denied to us but instead the gov are asking for an extension of the temporary arrangements from three months to three years.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
The difference between us is that you think that you can negotiate with the EU. Would you be happy for the UK to take all the EU non tariff barriers and put an equal amount on the EU's goods.kingstongraham said:
You are surprised that the single market has some non tariff barriers to entry? Or that the UK government wasn't interested in negotiating this particular one that we seem to be using as an example?john80 said:
My understanding is that a product produced in NI would be available for export to the EU as they are part of the single market. In the case of mussels they can be transported live to France and Depurated then sold on for human consumption. Essentially the EU have decided that removing this supply is of benefit to their populations as fishermen will likely get higher prices for the remaining product. Shame IG don't do a commodity in shellfish. You could make some money when prices go up next summer when the EU has managed to vaccinate its populations and restaurants are back open with large suppliers in the UK excluded. The removal of the cleaning procedure in the EU is just plain and simple market protectionism at the expense of consumers. There is no technical reason as to why the current arrangements could not continue from either an environmental or food standards point of view.kingstongraham said:
Sorry, I don't understand the answer to the question - it was about the current rules, not some imagined future.TheBigBean said:
Yes, so it would pose challenges for things like milk production which crosses the border a lot, but that is a consequence of Brexit. Sausage rolls shouldn't be a consequence of Brexit.kingstongraham said:
Would mussels produced in Northern Ireland be subject to the EU import rules that the Welsh ones are?TheBigBean said:
Yes, but NI is part of the UK, so GB sausage rolls would be fine for sale there. If someone in Ireland wanted to sell them, they would need to (i) find a way to launder them within their paperwork (ii) risk a spot check from the sausage roll customskingstongraham said:
That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
If someone in France wanted to consume the illicit sausage rolls, they would have to arrange for them to be shipped directly from Ireland, so even more laundered paperwork would be required, and as with many things it might just be easier to smuggle them across the Dover-Calais border instead.
If you look at the Sweden Norway border, some things are smuggled and traded in cash (I think garlic is one of them), but this only really affects small parts of Sweden, and not the entire EU, and is price Sweden is prepared to pay.
Obviously, I have no idea why the EU suddenly want its consumers to pay more for mussels either.
Are mussels produced in Northern Ireland allowed to go into the EU without going through the cleaning process that the EU rules say is required for imports from outside the EU? I'm just not sure what NI's alignment with the single market fully means.
We've just signed a bare-bones 'deal' with the EU that, as predicted, made just about everything we do with them more costly and difficult. None of this comes a surprise. Well, if it does come as a surprise, you really weren't paying attention. There's nothing new about the regulations on shellfish, only that they now apply to the UK too.
A quick reminder may be in order that 87% of the global economy that we interact with is not impacted by this. And that 87% is growing faster than the 13% that the EU represents. Just a spot of perspective
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Its a pity you don't read stuff properly and just throw out the bitter 'rebuttals' that you do above. Apart from assumptions about which way I voted in 2016, I've explained my position several times including pretty recently on here.antonyfromoz said:
And we can be sure that you and the other Brexit fans would be pointing to posititve headlines to show how right you were - and your silence about the positives is deafening. I remember the gloating, the triumphalism and now we have "we just have to wait and see, no good throwing theories around (even though that's what we did about the benefits of leaving), my company has had green lights for a week" - tragic, simply tragic.Stevo_666 said:
It's more of a criticism of the practice on here seizing on every headline with Brexit related issues (and there were always going to be issues) as proof of the apocalypse and that we must immediately rejoin. And we are not going back in the foreseeable, so what is the point?morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.
Assumption is the mother of what? "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
