BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

elbowloh

Assumption is a Catholic festival isn't it?

tailwindhome

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1361723330496258056?s=20

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1361724463495151621?s=20

Idiots

ddraver

(I suspect everyone knows this...)

They want a border on Ireland...they re just about clever enough not to say the quiet part loud, but they want a border, harder the better, on Ireland!

rjsterry

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

morstar

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

The north, the south, the midlands, gingers, non-gingers, bankers, chip shops. Take your pick.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

john80

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

ddraver

Again, yes we have considered.

Then we looked at the list of benefits, but...

pangolin

ddraver said:

Again, yes we have considered.

Then we looked at the list of benefits, but...

There's a benefits of brexit thread. Oddly it is quite quiet.

elbowloh

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

What interests did Brexit did look after? Was it just this nebulous thing called Sovereignty and immigration? Was that it really?

pblakeney

elbowloh said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

What interests did Brexit did look after? Was it just this nebulous thing called Sovereignty and immigration? Was that it really?

Blue passports. Don't forget the blue passports.

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

Maybe have another go once you've worked out what the creative industries are.

Pross

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

Maybe have another go once you've worked out what the creative industries are.

He'll probably be busy telling them better ways to do their job soon anyway.

verylonglegs

He hasn't told us how intelligent he is for a while either, that's due another go.

bompington

... meanwhile, we are searching around and still can't find out whether we're allowed to take our houseplants with us when we move to NI. We already know we'll have to eat our pieces before we get off the ferry.
Benefits of Brexit, eh?

john80

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

Maybe have another go once you've worked out what the creative industries are.

Maybe you should use your creativity to see just how big a loophole this would have been.

john80

verylonglegs said:

He hasn't told us how intelligent he is for a while either, that's due another go.

I will leave that to you.

surrey_commuter

Not often I agree with John but if you are going to inflict permanent economic harm at the cost of hundreds of billions to keep foreigners out then at least do it properly.

The list of suggested exceptions made the whole thing pointless, students, doctors, nurses, seasonal workers, chefs, au pairs, care home staff, people earning over £26k and now you want to add creative industries- why bother?

Lucky for the Irish that these tvvats see them as British as they are always near the top of the charts for immigration by country

Pross

bompington said:

... meanwhile, we are searching around and still can't find out whether we're allowed to take our houseplants with us when we move to NI. We already know we'll have to eat our pieces before we get off the ferry.
Benefits of Brexit, eh?

Ask Mr Raver

rjsterry

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

john80 said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

In which the Culture Minister admits that, yeah, there's absolutely nothing in the TCA for creative industries and they effectively have 'no deal'. They might try to do some bilateral deals with individual countries but haven't made any kind of start on looking into this.

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4bd22d71-fc47-48e5-b87a-15fc07eab0cb

So, so far we've got "Fvck industry, fishermen, farmers, Northern Ireland/Ireland,
the creative industries"... I wonder who's next.

I think it's less "f*** business" than they just weren't even on their radar. All was subsumed by an ideological desperation to eschew anything that could conceivably be thought of as alignment with the EU. Beyond that, they just weren't interested.

Have you ever considered that brexit could not look after every interest. How long do you think it would take for a guy to figure out that they could come to the UK claiming to be creative when their talent would make them one of the comedy acts on Britain's got talent that gets laughed off the stage. Allowing this loophole is nonsense when proper musicians can just do the paperwork. Harsh as it sounds to some their is no point in pulling EU rip cord to then put a load of half measures in place that can easily be exploited.

Maybe have another go once you've worked out what the creative industries are.

Maybe you should use your creativity to see just how big a loophole this would have been.

This is built on so much misunderstanding it's difficult to know where to start. Think of it less as a loophole and more allowing our creative industries to continue to be the world leader that they are. Anyway you needn't worry: it won't happen with Johnson in charge and that large chunk of the nation's economy will wither like everything else he touches.

The idea that EU citizens claiming to be comedians would be a significant immigration route is very funny, though.

ddraver

Pross said:

bompington said:

... meanwhile, we are searching around and still can't find out whether we're allowed to take our houseplants with us when we move to NI. We already know we'll have to eat our pieces before we get off the ferry.
Benefits of Brexit, eh?

Ask Mr Raver

Will require and Phytosanitary certificate and pre-notification on TRACES. Suggest you just give them to a grateful (?) neighbour and buy some more when you're there

(It constantly flabbergasts me that Gove doesn't try and get a simple win on these sorts of things rather than trying to rewrite what he signed 6 weeks ago...)

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

Not often I agree with John but if you are going to inflict permanent economic harm at the cost of hundreds of billions to keep foreigners out then at least do it properly.

The list of suggested exceptions made the whole thing pointless, students, doctors, nurses, seasonal workers, chefs, au pairs, care home staff, people earning over £26k and now you want to add creative industries- why bother?

Lucky for the Irish that these tvvats see them as British as they are always near the top of the charts for immigration by country

No, I think John is quite happy with exceptions that suit him.

elbowloh

ddraver said:

Pross said:

bompington said:

... meanwhile, we are searching around and still can't find out whether we're allowed to take our houseplants with us when we move to NI. We already know we'll have to eat our pieces before we get off the ferry.
Benefits of Brexit, eh?

Ask Mr Raver

Will require and Phytosanitary certificate and pre-notification on TRACES. Suggest you just give them to a grateful (?) neighbour and buy some more when you're there

(It constantly flabbergasts me that Gove doesn't try and get a simple win on these sorts of things rather than trying to rewrite what he signed 6 weeks ago...)

Which have been imported from the EU, because the garden centres can't source what they need in the UK any longer!

yorkshireraw

rick_chasey said:

This au paire thing is just class warfare.

People wanting to take things away or spoil them from others.

Quite. Plus also ignores the massive cost of FT childcare outside the home.
Having 2 kids under 5 in the SE, in full time nursery would take up a majority of a even a £60K a year salary - that's someone paying some tax at 40%, who is basically working to pay for childcare plus a few hundred quid left - no wonder many consider it's not worth it, or look down the au paire route.

ddraver

elbowloh said:

ddraver said:

Pross said:

bompington said:

... meanwhile, we are searching around and still can't find out whether we're allowed to take our houseplants with us when we move to NI. We already know we'll have to eat our pieces before we get off the ferry.
Benefits of Brexit, eh?

Ask Mr Raver

Will require and Phytosanitary certificate and pre-notification on TRACES. Suggest you just give them to a grateful (?) neighbour and buy some more when you're there

(It constantly flabbergasts me that Gove doesn't try and get a simple win on these sorts of things rather than trying to rewrite what he signed 6 weeks ago...)

Which have been imported from the EU, because the garden centres can't source what they need in the UK any longer!

Yep, Single Markets and Customs Unions are pretty neat eh? Almost as if they make trade more....free? 🤔

yorkshireraw

Stevo_666 said:

yorkshireraw said:

Stevo_666 said:

yorkshireraw said:

@Stevo_666 can I ask what Industry / sector you're in?

Because there is a shed-load of continuing issues in Food. Which is kind of relevant to everyone who eats i.e. everyone.

And yes, we don't need to eat shellfish, but a lot of our biggest consumption / manufactured products rely on imports / exports, for inputs (ingredients, packaging etc) or exporting finished goods.

Any cost increases (because of additional trade friction or increased transport costs) impacts the end consumer due to the relative (compared to cars, TVs etc) low price of food items and the fact food isn't discretionary spend. Sadly, many of those who voted for Brexit (lower income households in deprived areas) will be disproportionately impacted, as they spend relatively more of their disposable income on food.

It's also pretty important for jobs:

The food sector in GB employed 3.5 million people in Q1 2018 (3.9 million if agriculture and fishing are included along with self-employed farmers), a 1.0% increase on a year earlier. It covered 12% of GB employment in Q1 2018 (13% if agriculture and fishing are included along with self-employed farmers).

400K jobs are in manufacturing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-food-chain#:~:text=The food sector3 in,with self-employed farmers).

Not sure there is a ready made pigeon hole for what we do as we provide a mix of hardware and services. But for the hardware side which is what is in point here, I would describe us as electronic equipment. Without giving too much away....

Ok - so not stuff that average man in the street needs to buy everyday.

Not looking for a fight, but am highlighting that while it may be looking ok for one type of business, there are plenty that are having issues, and those issues have potential serious consequences for many people's jobs and the population at large.

Fair enough, I can only comment in detail on my own groups operations, although the evidence we have had from comparable groups and the 'grapevine' is similar, with one noticeable differentiator being how well they prepped for this.

On the food side I can only comment as a consumer and haven't noticed anything amiss in terms of shortages or price hikes.

My understanding is inbound isn't much of an issue at the moment (as stuff is being waved through to some degree) but plenty of exporting businesses are having issues or just seeing orders drop off - that will impact jobs.

I've been party to a 50-odd email exchange between one of our Supply Chain reps and a customer because of some debates between hauliers / agents about paperwork and certs requirements / responsibilities. It will get solved in this instance but it's all cost and no wonder many customers will look elsewhere than the UK. We generally had everything lined up ok but it only takes one overlooked situation to cause a ball-ache of issues.

pangolin

yorkshireraw said:

rick_chasey said:

This au paire thing is just class warfare.

People wanting to take things away or spoil them from others.

Quite. Plus also ignores the massive cost of FT childcare outside the home.
Having 2 kids under 5 in the SE, in full time nursery would take up a majority of a even a £60K a year salary - that's someone paying some tax at 40%, who is basically working to pay for childcare plus a few hundred quid left - no wonder many consider it's not worth it, or look down the au paire route.

This would only apply until they are 3 and start receiving free childcare hours (unless you're earning over 100k net adjusted).

Factor in maternity / paternity leave and the amount of time both children would be under 3 and both parents are trying to work is more like a year.

It is very expensive for that period though.

yorkshireraw

pangolin said:

yorkshireraw said:

rick_chasey said:

This au paire thing is just class warfare.

People wanting to take things away or spoil them from others.

Quite. Plus also ignores the massive cost of FT childcare outside the home.
Having 2 kids under 5 in the SE, in full time nursery would take up a majority of a even a £60K a year salary - that's someone paying some tax at 40%, who is basically working to pay for childcare plus a few hundred quid left - no wonder many consider it's not worth it, or look down the au paire route.

This would only apply until they are 3 and start receiving free childcare hours (unless you're earning over 100k net adjusted).

Factor in maternity / paternity leave and the amount of time both children would be under 3 and both parents are trying to work is more like a year.

It is very expensive for that period though.

Correct - except 'free' is 30 hours a week for 38 weeks (term times) a year. If you need wrap-around care (7.30am - 6.30pm, as most people with a bit of 'normal world' commute would) it's 22 hrs a week year round - basically 2 of 5 days. So still more than half the cost for the older kid, and prob at least 50% of the total take home from the second earner for the 2 kids.

Anyone with twins is knackered.

pangolin

Yes, hence why I said free childcare hours not just free childcare.