BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
-
Not sure you're getting the point. Sure the EU wants its own competitive FS system; the point being made above is that its current actions risk causing it damage.rick_chasey said:Well I'm glad the Bank of England is rightly playing to the domestic audience.
They are right to warn of the dangers of economic nationalism. They have spent the last 5 years warning the UK about it and it did not listen.
Now, without the UK, the EU is likely to accelerate a form of regionalism where it seeks to establish the EU as a singular geopolitical force alongside the US and China in a sort of Voltron scenario.
The rhetoric is moving in that direction anyway; driven as I see it by the threat of China and an unreliable quasi-fascist US.
This does not bode well for the city of London or the UK as a whole as it will likely mean the EU are willing to give up the benefits of internationalism (read co-operation with the UK) in return for more geopolitical leverage.
Stevo - i'll make it really plain. Carney is using the same argument for EU co-operation with the UK as he did for Remain. That you did not find his argument convincing suggests that your equivalents for the EU side won't either.
The focus on "sovereignty" during the Brexit negs cuts both ways. You are advocating cake-sim again.
The trade deal is thin as it is focused on sovereignty so that is the objective of it - why would the EU not want its own competitive FS system?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Heaven forbid.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure you're getting the point. Sure the EU wants its own competitive FS system; the point being made above is that its current actions risk causing it damage.rick_chasey said:Well I'm glad the Bank of England is rightly playing to the domestic audience.
They are right to warn of the dangers of economic nationalism. They have spent the last 5 years warning the UK about it and it did not listen.
Now, without the UK, the EU is likely to accelerate a form of regionalism where it seeks to establish the EU as a singular geopolitical force alongside the US and China in a sort of Voltron scenario.
The rhetoric is moving in that direction anyway; driven as I see it by the threat of China and an unreliable quasi-fascist US.
This does not bode well for the city of London or the UK as a whole as it will likely mean the EU are willing to give up the benefits of internationalism (read co-operation with the UK) in return for more geopolitical leverage.
Stevo - i'll make it really plain. Carney is using the same argument for EU co-operation with the UK as he did for Remain. That you did not find his argument convincing suggests that your equivalents for the EU side won't either.
The focus on "sovereignty" during the Brexit negs cuts both ways. You are advocating cake-sim again.
The trade deal is thin as it is focused on sovereignty so that is the objective of it - why would the EU not want its own competitive FS system?0 -
WhooshStevo_666 said:
Not sure you're getting the point. Sure the EU wants its own competitive FS system; the point being made above is that its current actions risk causing it damage.rick_chasey said:Well I'm glad the Bank of England is rightly playing to the domestic audience.
They are right to warn of the dangers of economic nationalism. They have spent the last 5 years warning the UK about it and it did not listen.
Now, without the UK, the EU is likely to accelerate a form of regionalism where it seeks to establish the EU as a singular geopolitical force alongside the US and China in a sort of Voltron scenario.
The rhetoric is moving in that direction anyway; driven as I see it by the threat of China and an unreliable quasi-fascist US.
This does not bode well for the city of London or the UK as a whole as it will likely mean the EU are willing to give up the benefits of internationalism (read co-operation with the UK) in return for more geopolitical leverage.
Stevo - i'll make it really plain. Carney is using the same argument for EU co-operation with the UK as he did for Remain. That you did not find his argument convincing suggests that your equivalents for the EU side won't either.
The focus on "sovereignty" during the Brexit negs cuts both ways. You are advocating cake-sim again.
The trade deal is thin as it is focused on sovereignty so that is the objective of it - why would the EU not want its own competitive FS system?0 -
This echoes conversations my colleagues are having0 -
It seems inevitable to me. Hard to imagine when you’re a global player but if the practicalities support being inside the Eu, the money and power will move.rick_chasey said:
This echoes conversations my colleagues are having
The London being a global powerhouse only holds water if it retains advantages. Those are being eroded.
It’s naive to think you’re too big to be overtaken.
As I’ve said before, getting UK governments to look at facilitating the economy outside of FS is no bad thing but I never thought (or argued) it would come at the expense of FS being sold down the river.0 -
For you, maybe as you don't seem to have grasped the point I was making. And your lack of a substantive response tell me you have no real counter argument. Unless you're withholding it to try to look clever?rick_chasey said:
WhooshStevo_666 said:
Not sure you're getting the point. Sure the EU wants its own competitive FS system; the point being made above is that its current actions risk causing it damage.rick_chasey said:Well I'm glad the Bank of England is rightly playing to the domestic audience.
They are right to warn of the dangers of economic nationalism. They have spent the last 5 years warning the UK about it and it did not listen.
Now, without the UK, the EU is likely to accelerate a form of regionalism where it seeks to establish the EU as a singular geopolitical force alongside the US and China in a sort of Voltron scenario.
The rhetoric is moving in that direction anyway; driven as I see it by the threat of China and an unreliable quasi-fascist US.
This does not bode well for the city of London or the UK as a whole as it will likely mean the EU are willing to give up the benefits of internationalism (read co-operation with the UK) in return for more geopolitical leverage.
Stevo - i'll make it really plain. Carney is using the same argument for EU co-operation with the UK as he did for Remain. That you did not find his argument convincing suggests that your equivalents for the EU side won't either.
The focus on "sovereignty" during the Brexit negs cuts both ways. You are advocating cake-sim again.
The trade deal is thin as it is focused on sovereignty so that is the objective of it - why would the EU not want its own competitive FS system?
Just fyi, being condescending doesn't win arguments."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Read what I wrote and try again. I’ve bolder the bit to help.Stevo_666 said:
For you, maybe as you don't seem to have grasped the point I was making. And your lack of a substantive response tell me you have no real counter argument. Unless you're withholding it to try to look clever?rick_chasey said:
WhooshStevo_666 said:
Not sure you're getting the point. Sure the EU wants its own competitive FS system; the point being made above is that its current actions risk causing it damage.rick_chasey said:Well I'm glad the Bank of England is rightly playing to the domestic audience.
They are right to warn of the dangers of economic nationalism. They have spent the last 5 years warning the UK about it and it did not listen.
Now, without the UK, the EU is likely to accelerate a form of regionalism where it seeks to establish the EU as a singular geopolitical force alongside the US and China in a sort of Voltron scenario.
The rhetoric is moving in that direction anyway; driven as I see it by the threat of China and an unreliable quasi-fascist US.
This does not bode well for the city of London or the UK as a whole as it will likely mean the EU are willing to give up the benefits of internationalism (read co-operation with the UK) in return for more geopolitical leverage.
Stevo - i'll make it really plain. Carney is using the same argument for EU co-operation with the UK as he did for Remain. That you did not find his argument convincing suggests that your equivalents for the EU side won't either.
The focus on "sovereignty" during the Brexit negs cuts both ways. You are advocating cake-sim again.
The trade deal is thin as it is focused on sovereignty so that is the objective of it - why would the EU not want its own competitive FS system?
Just fyi, being condescending doesn't win arguments.0 -
-
Ive re-read 'whoosh' and it still, isn't a very good counter argument.rick_chasey said:
Read what I wrote and try again. I’ve bolder the bit to help.Stevo_666 said:
For you, maybe as you don't seem to have grasped the point I was making. And your lack of a substantive response tell me you have no real counter argument. Unless you're withholding it to try to look clever?rick_chasey said:
WhooshStevo_666 said:
Not sure you're getting the point. Sure the EU wants its own competitive FS system; the point being made above is that its current actions risk causing it damage.rick_chasey said:Well I'm glad the Bank of England is rightly playing to the domestic audience.
They are right to warn of the dangers of economic nationalism. They have spent the last 5 years warning the UK about it and it did not listen.
Now, without the UK, the EU is likely to accelerate a form of regionalism where it seeks to establish the EU as a singular geopolitical force alongside the US and China in a sort of Voltron scenario.
The rhetoric is moving in that direction anyway; driven as I see it by the threat of China and an unreliable quasi-fascist US.
This does not bode well for the city of London or the UK as a whole as it will likely mean the EU are willing to give up the benefits of internationalism (read co-operation with the UK) in return for more geopolitical leverage.
Stevo - i'll make it really plain. Carney is using the same argument for EU co-operation with the UK as he did for Remain. That you did not find his argument convincing suggests that your equivalents for the EU side won't either.
The focus on "sovereignty" during the Brexit negs cuts both ways. You are advocating cake-sim again.
The trade deal is thin as it is focused on sovereignty so that is the objective of it - why would the EU not want its own competitive FS system?
Just fyi, being condescending doesn't win arguments."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.0 -
“The sky won’t fall in if borrowing costs are more expensive for a bit.
We can take the prize jewel off the Brits and in 15 years they will rue their mistake through their crooked British teeth and cry into their lukewarm beer”0 -
All a known, and acceptable, cost of Brexit.morstar said:
It seems inevitable to me. Hard to imagine when you’re a global player but if the practicalities support being inside the Eu, the money and power will move.rick_chasey said:
This echoes conversations my colleagues are having
The London being a global powerhouse only holds water if it retains advantages. Those are being eroded.
It’s naive to think you’re too big to be overtaken.
As I’ve said before, getting UK governments to look at facilitating the economy outside of FS is no bad thing but I never thought (or argued) it would come at the expense of FS being sold down the river.
I think the only surprise is the speed but that be a perception thing as they are chipping away the easiest bits and then we will see a gradual dwindling. There will be the odd eyebrow raiser but in general it will go below the radar.0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.0 -
you do not understand the eu taking decisions on FS that are economically harmful to them.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
You are fully supportive of the UK taking decisions on FS that are economically harmful to them
1 -
Theres not much to make the most of at the moment. It's enough to make a thin gruel.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.0 -
morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.
Nick Cohen makes CS appear positively chipper... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/13/in-the-fairytale-land-of-brexit-were-trading-with-the-world-its-a-fantasy0 -
This!elbowloh said:
Theres not much to make the most of at the moment. It's enough to make a thin gruel.
If the best thing to come out of Brexit is me getting a job that isn't where I want it to be and pays less that 50% of the old one...it ain't good.Stevo_666 said:From a forum member who owes his current job to Brexit. Irony?
You're an accountant, you should understand the numbers bit at least
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I’m not sure. He sits on the fence a littlebriantrumpet said:morstar said:
I agree that there are some opportunities and we do need to look forward but completely disagree about not analysing the effects.Stevo_666 said:
It's not a case of supporting something - obviously Brexit is a fact, it has already happened and continually moaning about it after the fact is not particularly useful - so why do you continue to do it?rick_chasey said:Ok why do you support brexit despite the cost?
Now imagine you are French and apply the same logic.
I've consistently taken the view that as we took a democratic decision to leave, we need to make the most of it.
It was a significant political promise/decision made on some extremely questionable promises. Those who made the ones that were blatantly untrue should be asked to explain themselves.
Any major project undertaken in most organisations will have a review process of what worked and what didn’t and this uncovers a lot of obvious stuff but usually some unforeseen wins and losses too. To not carry out this analysis leaves the project incomplete.
TBH, the moaning mantra seems more of a lazy attempt to silence criticism.
Nick Cohen makes CS appear positively chipper... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/13/in-the-fairytale-land-of-brexit-were-trading-with-the-world-its-a-fantasy
Although I do think Labour are understandably reticent to wade in. It was a right wing influenced project but the support was across party lines.
It needs to be allowed to unravel and reveal its true nature before ripping a new one on the lies.
Arlene can go fuck herself though. Admittedly that adds little to the debate but no fucking sympathy at all other than for anybody who is threatened by any possible increase in violence on the Emerald isle.0 -
Relations with NI are back to 'leaking 'plans' for a bridge/tunnel to Christopher Hope in the Telegraph'
Again“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Yeah how does this stop customs checks?tailwindhome said:Relations with NI are back to 'leaking 'plans' for a bridge/tunnel to Christopher Hope in the Telegraph'
Again0 -
Presumably some creative interpretation of a land connection.rick_chasey said:
Yeah how does this stop customs checks?tailwindhome said:Relations with NI are back to 'leaking 'plans' for a bridge/tunnel to Christopher Hope in the Telegraph'
Again0 -
There is a re-balancing effect though.
Whilst I’m not going to suggest for one second that Brexit is an overall good thing, there is inward investment in UK as a direct result of Brexit.
UK owned company I worked for until end of 2017 was bought by a Dutch company explicitly to Brexit proof their UK market.
We’ve severely weakened ourselves but there is still a large economy to be dealt with and if you want to benefit from that market, you have to be in it.
The idea that everybody is going to turn their backs on a top 10 global economy that has a trade deficit is incredibly naive.1 -
Who is saying that?
I feel people read these things and extrapolate the position to a point where it isn’t there.
Have you read the article? It refers specifically to small companies.
Your sub 20 fte firm does not have the scale go bridge the bureaucratic gap0 -
Read as much as the paywall would let me which was about 100 words.rick_chasey said:Who is saying that?
I feel people read these things and extrapolate the position to a point where it isn’t there.
Have you read the article? It refers specifically to small companies.
Your sub 20 fte firm does not have the scale go bridge the bureaucratic gap
The importers / exporters will find a way is my point.
The small shop the article leads with is in a bad spot. I’m not a Brexit supporter so not going to excuse that.
However, the German manufacturers of said products that have a worthwhile UK market are going to find a way to support that market in a best of a bad job way.
The opening suggestion is that they will simply walk away. Sure some will, but the gaps will get closed if the demand is there.
All these bike companies abandoning UK sales have given up due to hassle. Fair enough as bikes are in demand anyway so why deal with a more difficult market than you need to. Does that mean nobody is going to sell bikes in the UK? No.
It is a massive (and unnecessary) adjustment period but that is all it is with regard to imports.
It is the exports and outward trade where we have cut our arm off.0 -
He really must be struggling to keep a straight face as he types.tailwindhome said:Relations with NI are back to 'leaking 'plans' for a bridge/tunnel to Christopher Hope in the Telegraph'
Again1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
