BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Seems they've somewhat targeted themselves with no help required.surrey_commuter said:
Whilst that is not possible you could target the demographics who voted to Leave, pensioners, northerners, fish, farmers.elbowloh said:
Maybe there should be additional tax levy on those who voted for Brexit to pay for all Brexit related costs?surrey_commuter said:
can you really find nothing more important to spend our taxes on?john80 said:
Sometimes if you want something done quickly the deep pockets of government and the creativity of the engineering sector can get things done. Its not like we don't know how the EU plants are constructed or the technology basic as this is.rjsterry said:
Nationalising shellfish production? Jeepers, how much of a full blown socialist are you?john80 said:
If the UK government was smart it would call the EU's bluff and make a single UK plant for all UK shellfish then only export product compliant with the EU. EU business loses out on jobs and we gain. Its not that hard.elbowloh said:More of the fishing industry front - from Fishing News!
All live mollusc exports to the EU banned indefinitely. Not teething problems either. Industry was told that this would all be solved when new EU legislation is due to come in April 2021, but that is not the case. The UK does not have the means here to process the catch before shipping.
https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/live-mollusc-exports-ban/
censored business and censored you fishermen/women.
In reality that means replacing triple lock with CPI, sod levelling up and stop compensating people who voted to destroy their own livelihood- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Good spot. Don't know where that came from! Maybe that's the solution though, artificial shellfish factory.TheBigBean said:
You know about the birds and the bees?Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
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Really? I work day in, day out in the development sector including HPC. If you are getting the surveys, studies and planning approval for an industrial site done in 3-4 years you are doing well.john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
It occasionally gets done when there's political will, I work on a huge electronics plant back in the '90s that was proposal to completion of buildings without fit out in around 2.5 years just in time for the SE Asian financial crash which meant they never got occupied. That was for billions of high tech inward investment though not a giant washing machine for a few million quids worth of mussels. I don't see the political will for that somehow.0 -
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
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You will probably have to pay that additional tax whilst living somewhere in the EU.sungod said:
i dunno, i support your suggestion and get spurnedjohn80 said:
I am sure it won't be too hard to find an example that impoverishes you unless you vote green because they have literally achieved naff all.sungod said:
so far i'm ok with both proposalsjohn80 said:
Can all those that voted for Tony Blair in 98 be charged for all students tuition fees for ever more. That should bankrupt most Labour voters. See where your logic goes.elbowloh said:
Maybe there should be additional tax levy on those who voted for Brexit to pay for all Brexit related costs?surrey_commuter said:
can you really find nothing more important to spend our taxes on?john80 said:
Sometimes if you want something done quickly the deep pockets of government and the creativity of the engineering sector can get things done. Its not like we don't know how the EU plants are constructed or the technology basic as this is.rjsterry said:
Nationalising shellfish production? Jeepers, how much of a full blown socialist are you?john80 said:
If the UK government was smart it would call the EU's bluff and make a single UK plant for all UK shellfish then only export product compliant with the EU. EU business loses out on jobs and we gain. Its not that hard.elbowloh said:More of the fishing industry front - from Fishing News!
All live mollusc exports to the EU banned indefinitely. Not teething problems either. Industry was told that this would all be solved when new EU legislation is due to come in April 2021, but that is not the case. The UK does not have the means here to process the catch before shipping.
https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/live-mollusc-exports-ban/
censored business and censored you fishermen/women.
i've no issue with those who vote for it paying for it, perfectly fair vs. the innocent paying for everyone else's bad choices
personally i'd also happily pay whatever the claimed uk cost per head of eu membership was in return for getting my rights back0 -
Read the article, once they are washed the shelf life decreases so can no longer be exported fresh enough to meet the needs of their previous buyers.john80 said:
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
They knew this so I really don’t see what the issue is.0 -
surrey_commuter said:
Read the article, once they are washed the shelf life decreases so can no longer be exported fresh enough to meet the needs of their previous buyers.john80 said:
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
They knew this so I really don’t see what the issue is.
It's good news for the shellfish, if there's no market for eating them. Hardly makes up for the £350m per week that the NHS isn't getting, but hey...1 -
Or lives in the real world banging his head against a brick wall (metaphorical only as it takes years to build a real one) trying to get relatively minor works through the planning, and post planning, red tape. I don't know a single developer who doesn't want their development built ASAP but it still takes years in most cases.john80 said:
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
We're working on trying to get an old retail unit back into use for a slightly different type of retail, it has taken about 2 years so far and still doesn't have approval because the Highway Authority say the new use will generate more traffic and the current access (that has one recorded slight accident near it in the past 15 years) is not to their current standards. Another site, with planning permission to demolish units on an industrial estate to build new, has been stalled since April because the highway guy at the Council is "too busy" to check the access drawings or even reply to emails or voicemail.
There may be situations where emergency powers and political will can circumvent the system but I've seen nothing to suggest that will happen to help fishermen wash their catch and sell it to Europe (and not should that happen).0 -
Maybe John Boy and Ricky can get together and talk sweet dreams.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It's weird that it seems nobody in the industry came up these simple sounding solutions.john80 said:
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
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I'm not sure a few shellfish producers have quite the same leverage as our main road freight connection to the continent.john80 said:
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Interestingly, from the same site in May 2019, exactly this was known about by exactly the same people.
https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/eu-mussel-exports-threat/1 -
Everyone seems to be missing the obvious as to why Molly Malone hasn't been consulted on this matter. If she upscales her operation and wheels her wheelbarrows on a more industrial scale we have a ready made domestic market.
Alive Alive Oh.
Oh, just realised she's based in Dublin. Scrap that.3 -
Just done some research by listening to The Dubliners, and apparently "she died of a fever and no-one could save her" - sounds like a potential covid victim.skyblueamateur said:Everyone seems to be missing the obvious as to why Molly Malone hasn't been consulted on this matter. If she upscales her operation and wheels her wheelbarrows on a more industrial scale we have a ready made domestic market.
Alive Alive Oh.
Oh, just realised she's based in Dublin. Scrap that.2 -
Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?0
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Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That is a very interesting article and at least answers the question of how they did not know?kingstongraham said:Interestingly, from the same site in May 2019, exactly this was known about by exactly the same people.
https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/eu-mussel-exports-threat/
Which raises the question of why did the media not interview fishing leaders flagging up the future “sub-optimal” outcome for their industry0 -
This post sums up what I love about this place, if you remain open minded you can learn a great deal from a community far more diverse in their areas of expertise than you are used to in real lifePross said:
Or lives in the real world banging his head against a brick wall (metaphorical only as it takes years to build a real one) trying to get relatively minor works through the planning, and post planning, red tape. I don't know a single developer who doesn't want their development built ASAP but it still takes years in most cases.john80 said:
We tarmacked large amounts of Kent for lorry parking. Not sure repurposing an existing industrial unit or building a new one is much of a challenge to planning. You keep racking up the issues to please yourself.rjsterry said:
I take it you've not been involved with the UK planning system, then?john80 said:
They probably will with that can do attitude. In all seriousness it would take longer to get the paperwork in place than sort out the process and equipment from reading a research paper on how it's done. I have done nuclear engineering jobs quicker than your timescales and that is a slow and heavily regulated industry.Pross said:I see we're back into building factories again. Will there be any shellfish manufacturers left by time we've found suitable sites, undertaken feasibility studies, gained planning, appointed a Contractor and finally built and fitted out the factory? I suppose we might get lucky and find a suitable facility in the right location that can be converted and fitted out so do it within a year or two instead of 5-10 years.
We're working on trying to get an old retail unit back into use for a slightly different type of retail, it has taken about 2 years so far and still doesn't have approval because the Highway Authority say the new use will generate more traffic and the current access (that has one recorded slight accident near it in the past 15 years) is not to their current standards. Another site, with planning permission to demolish units on an industrial estate to build new, has been stalled since April because the highway guy at the Council is "too busy" to check the access drawings or even reply to emails or voicemail.
There may be situations where emergency powers and political will can circumvent the system but I've seen nothing to suggest that will happen to help fishermen wash their catch and sell it to Europe (and not should that happen).0 -
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risking the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
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That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.0 -
Yes, but NI is part of the UK, so GB sausage rolls would be fine for sale there. If someone in Ireland wanted to sell them, they would need to (i) find a way to launder them within their paperwork (ii) risk a spot check from the sausage roll customskingstongraham said:
That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
If someone in France wanted to consume the illicit sausage rolls, they would have to arrange for them to be shipped directly from Ireland, so even more laundered paperwork would be required, and as with many things it might just be easier to smuggle them across the Dover-Calais border instead.
If you look at the Sweden Norway border, some things are smuggled and traded in cash (I think garlic is one of them), but this only really affects small parts of Sweden, and not the entire EU, and is price Sweden is prepared to pay.
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Do you not think that the outcome was a significant step on the road to a unified island of Ireland.TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
To me it looks like a well judged long term transition that will result in us handing the keys over to Dublin and 99% of the population will see no practical difference0 -
That's a question for @tailwindhome Depends on the view of moderate unionists I would imagine.surrey_commuter said:
Do you not think that the outcome was a significant step on the road to a unified island of Ireland.TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
To me it looks like a well judged long term transition that will result in us handing the keys over to Dublin and 99% of the population will see no practical difference0 -
to my mind the train has left the station and the view of the moderate unionists will only decide the speedTheBigBean said:
That's a question for @tailwindhome Depends on the view of moderate unionists I would imagine.surrey_commuter said:
Do you not think that the outcome was a significant step on the road to a unified island of Ireland.TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
To me it looks like a well judged long term transition that will result in us handing the keys over to Dublin and 99% of the population will see no practical difference
If it is a general assumption in "the establishment" that the days of the UK are numbered and the future is GB then it would explain the ready acceptance by the Tory and Unionist party to so readily throw NI over the side, especially when you consider the lengths they went to over fishing0 -
Would mussels produced in Northern Ireland be subject to the EU import rules that the Welsh ones are?TheBigBean said:
Yes, but NI is part of the UK, so GB sausage rolls would be fine for sale there. If someone in Ireland wanted to sell them, they would need to (i) find a way to launder them within their paperwork (ii) risk a spot check from the sausage roll customskingstongraham said:
That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
If someone in France wanted to consume the illicit sausage rolls, they would have to arrange for them to be shipped directly from Ireland, so even more laundered paperwork would be required, and as with many things it might just be easier to smuggle them across the Dover-Calais border instead.
If you look at the Sweden Norway border, some things are smuggled and traded in cash (I think garlic is one of them), but this only really affects small parts of Sweden, and not the entire EU, and is price Sweden is prepared to pay.0 -
Yes, so it would pose challenges for things like milk production which crosses the border a lot, but that is a consequence of Brexit. Sausage rolls shouldn't be a consequence of Brexit.kingstongraham said:
Would mussels produced in Northern Ireland be subject to the EU import rules that the Welsh ones are?TheBigBean said:
Yes, but NI is part of the UK, so GB sausage rolls would be fine for sale there. If someone in Ireland wanted to sell them, they would need to (i) find a way to launder them within their paperwork (ii) risk a spot check from the sausage roll customskingstongraham said:
That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
If someone in France wanted to consume the illicit sausage rolls, they would have to arrange for them to be shipped directly from Ireland, so even more laundered paperwork would be required, and as with many things it might just be easier to smuggle them across the Dover-Calais border instead.
If you look at the Sweden Norway border, some things are smuggled and traded in cash (I think garlic is one of them), but this only really affects small parts of Sweden, and not the entire EU, and is price Sweden is prepared to pay.
Obviously, I have no idea why the EU suddenly want its consumers to pay more for mussels either.0 -
Sorry, I don't understand the answer to the question - it was about the current rules, not some imagined future.TheBigBean said:
Yes, so it would pose challenges for things like milk production which crosses the border a lot, but that is a consequence of Brexit. Sausage rolls shouldn't be a consequence of Brexit.kingstongraham said:
Would mussels produced in Northern Ireland be subject to the EU import rules that the Welsh ones are?TheBigBean said:
Yes, but NI is part of the UK, so GB sausage rolls would be fine for sale there. If someone in Ireland wanted to sell them, they would need to (i) find a way to launder them within their paperwork (ii) risk a spot check from the sausage roll customskingstongraham said:
That's open for checks only, not the actual requirements that they would be enforcing? Tariffs, standards etc?TheBigBean said:
I don't like it, but when people talk about any form of border between ROI and NI, it is always done in the context of ruining the peace and starting the troubles again etc. This is essentially letting some republican thugs call the shots.rjsterry said:
Aside from the customs implications, you seem remarkably sanguine about a bunch of loyalist thugs calling the shots.TheBigBean said:Right now there are no checks on the border from GB to NI and no checks from NI to ROI. Is the EU going to survive?
Imposing a border between GB and NI is just as much a breach of the GFA/BA as it would have been if it was between ROI and NI. The difference is that the republicans put more into their PR efforts.
So, whilst unpleasant, it was entirely predictable.
The clever thing about the NI protocol was that it allowed a lot of this to be managed sensibly, because there is the threat that NI would vote out in four years. Are sausage rolls sold in supermarkets a sufficient threat to the EU's market that it requires risky the peace?
I think I've been fairly consistent on this issue for a number of years. Open borders won't do much damage to either side.
If someone in France wanted to consume the illicit sausage rolls, they would have to arrange for them to be shipped directly from Ireland, so even more laundered paperwork would be required, and as with many things it might just be easier to smuggle them across the Dover-Calais border instead.
If you look at the Sweden Norway border, some things are smuggled and traded in cash (I think garlic is one of them), but this only really affects small parts of Sweden, and not the entire EU, and is price Sweden is prepared to pay.
Obviously, I have no idea why the EU suddenly want its consumers to pay more for mussels either.
Are mussels produced in Northern Ireland allowed to go into the EU without going through the cleaning process that the EU rules say is required for imports from outside the EU? I'm just not sure what NI's alignment with the single market fully means.
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