BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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they learned it from the ukStevo_666 said:
Even the EU can see when the French are behaving like utter tw@ts.veronese68 said:
The nasty bullying European Commission has asked countries to lift the travel restrictions from the UK.coopster_the_1st said:
Time for the UK to implement the same rules as the French and cause a logistical issue their side of the channel just before Christmas. This will then be over by midnight and they will have retracted their stupid demands.kingstongraham said:It's trucks with drivers that are banned, so containers and unaccompanied trailers can still go across. No idea what proportion that is.
We've tried the carrot approach, now for the stick version.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54851042my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Are you not buying Christmas eve as the final final deadline?kingstongraham said:Has anyone done a timeline of all the "final deadlines" for this deal? Wasn't there one in June?
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What is - the list of deadlines?rick_chasey said:
It’s a 2000 page document.kingstongraham said:Has anyone done a timeline of all the "final deadlines" for this deal? Wasn't there one in June?
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I'm concluding nothing until 01/01/2021.TheBigBean said:
Are you not buying Christmas eve as the final final deadline?kingstongraham said:Has anyone done a timeline of all the "final deadlines" for this deal? Wasn't there one in June?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That just marks the end of the beginningpblakeney said:
I'm concluding nothing until 01/01/2021.TheBigBean said:
Are you not buying Christmas eve as the final final deadline?kingstongraham said:Has anyone done a timeline of all the "final deadlines" for this deal? Wasn't there one in June?
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I do find it strange that Boris bans travel between Tier 4 and other regions within the UK yet we all unite in a xenophobic rant about the French for doing likewise.sungod said:
they learned it from the ukStevo_666 said:
Even the EU can see when the French are behaving like utter tw@ts.veronese68 said:
The nasty bullying European Commission has asked countries to lift the travel restrictions from the UK.coopster_the_1st said:
Time for the UK to implement the same rules as the French and cause a logistical issue their side of the channel just before Christmas. This will then be over by midnight and they will have retracted their stupid demands.kingstongraham said:It's trucks with drivers that are banned, so containers and unaccompanied trailers can still go across. No idea what proportion that is.
We've tried the carrot approach, now for the stick version.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-548510420 -
Nah, there's the final, final honest we really mean it this time deadline still to play.TheBigBean said:
Are you not buying Christmas eve as the final final deadline?kingstongraham said:Has anyone done a timeline of all the "final deadlines" for this deal? Wasn't there one in June?
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Movement of goods have continued under all circumstances though. I don't think there is a real object to banning holiday makers.surrey_commuter said:
I do find it strange that Boris bans travel between Tier 4 and other regions within the UK yet we all unite in a xenophobic rant about the French for doing likewise.sungod said:
they learned it from the ukStevo_666 said:
Even the EU can see when the French are behaving like utter tw@ts.veronese68 said:
The nasty bullying European Commission has asked countries to lift the travel restrictions from the UK.coopster_the_1st said:
Time for the UK to implement the same rules as the French and cause a logistical issue their side of the channel just before Christmas. This will then be over by midnight and they will have retracted their stupid demands.kingstongraham said:It's trucks with drivers that are banned, so containers and unaccompanied trailers can still go across. No idea what proportion that is.
We've tried the carrot approach, now for the stick version.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-548510422 -
It marks the end of transition. Stage 2 reality begins. Extensions excepted.surrey_commuter said:
That just marks the end of the beginningpblakeney said:
I'm concluding nothing until 01/01/2021.TheBigBean said:
Are you not buying Christmas eve as the final final deadline?kingstongraham said:Has anyone done a timeline of all the "final deadlines" for this deal? Wasn't there one in June?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Oven ready innit.0
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There is no deadline
There's just a point after which consequences become unavoidable“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Why are we fishing so close to their coast?coopster_the_1st said:- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Someone else articulating why that internal market bill was so terrible
Honestly this is an element in why rona reactions and these negs are more difficult than they could have been.0 -
I think everyone else has moved on. The NI protocol has been agreed.rick_chasey said:Someone else articulating why that internal market bill was so terrible
Honestly this is an element in why rona reactions and these negs are more difficult than they could have been.0 -
As the Bean says, trade related travel hasn't been stopped, except by Macron playing his games.surrey_commuter said:
I do find it strange that Boris bans travel between Tier 4 and other regions within the UK yet we all unite in a xenophobic rant about the French for doing likewise.sungod said:
they learned it from the ukStevo_666 said:
Even the EU can see when the French are behaving like utter tw@ts.veronese68 said:
The nasty bullying European Commission has asked countries to lift the travel restrictions from the UK.coopster_the_1st said:
Time for the UK to implement the same rules as the French and cause a logistical issue their side of the channel just before Christmas. This will then be over by midnight and they will have retracted their stupid demands.kingstongraham said:It's trucks with drivers that are banned, so containers and unaccompanied trailers can still go across. No idea what proportion that is.
We've tried the carrot approach, now for the stick version.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54851042
No one is suggesting banning leisure travel is unreasonable.0 -
8 days to go.ddraver said:
Morning,ddraver said:On the plus side TWH, the Northern Ireland Trader Support Service goes live at 8 am tomorrow!
Bets on how long I'll be 'live' for before it crashes?
Well this is an anti-climax...
January is going to be fun.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
So the EU want a 25% reduction in quotas for EU fisherman, we've offered 35%.
Surely we'll all agree to 30% Even the hagglers in the souk in Marraksesh can work that out.0 -
Yep, as far as I'm aware deliveries, no matter how trivial, continue in Tier 4 (and freight movements to all other countries). I'm surprised at SC seeing people criticise the French for their unilateral approach as a Xenophobic rant. Those suffering from it most on a personal level are foreign presumably including many French citizens. It's Macron being a d1ck.TheBigBean said:
Movement of goods have continued under all circumstances though. I don't think there is a real object to banning holiday makers.surrey_commuter said:
I do find it strange that Boris bans travel between Tier 4 and other regions within the UK yet we all unite in a xenophobic rant about the French for doing likewise.sungod said:
they learned it from the ukStevo_666 said:
Even the EU can see when the French are behaving like utter tw@ts.veronese68 said:
The nasty bullying European Commission has asked countries to lift the travel restrictions from the UK.coopster_the_1st said:
Time for the UK to implement the same rules as the French and cause a logistical issue their side of the channel just before Christmas. This will then be over by midnight and they will have retracted their stupid demands.kingstongraham said:It's trucks with drivers that are banned, so containers and unaccompanied trailers can still go across. No idea what proportion that is.
We've tried the carrot approach, now for the stick version.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-548510421 -
This isn't actually true. The UK has offered 35% on some stocks and none of some others and in the 6m-12m zone. Overall, the UK's offer is still 60%.elbowloh said:So the EU want a 25% reduction in quotas for EU fisherman, we've offered 35%.
Surely we'll all agree to 30% Even the hagglers in the souk in Marraksesh can work that out.
That said, the review mechanism I mentioned upthread has merit.
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Reuters reporting a deal is 'imminent', whatever that may mean!0
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Mine wasn't a 100% serious post Beanie.TheBigBean said:
This isn't actually true. The UK has offered 35% on some stocks and none of some others and in the 6m-12m zone. Overall, the UK's offer is still 60%.elbowloh said:So the EU want a 25% reduction in quotas for EU fisherman, we've offered 35%.
Surely we'll all agree to 30% Even the hagglers in the souk in Marraksesh can work that out.
That said, the review mechanism I mentioned upthread has merit.0 -
I could do, but there is no chance of that ever happening - perhaps it would have happened when I was much younger, and might have had more childish leanings towards nationalism etc, but I have gotten older, grown, and changed considerably since then.Stevo_666 said:
You could look at it like that, but recognising that we are different from our continental friends is not necessarily being insular (although one meaning of insular is 'relating to or from an island'daniel_b said:
To me this article reeks of an insular, inwards looking population here in the uk - and as it appears to regrettably be true, I find that incredibly sad, disheartening and depressing - both for myself, but even more so for the likes of my 7 year old daughter and her generation.rjsterry said:
Um... I guess it illustrates a point of view. One that ignores huge tracts of history but everyone likes a bit of mythology. Feels like someone thumbing through their Reader's Digest Encyclopedia of British History looking for events to back up their starting assumption.Stevo_666 said:Also from a more philiosophical standpoint, this might help a few people understand the current situation:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/16/great-britain-never-never-will-european-country/
"“Britain is a European nation,” Remainers still often say when calling for the closest possible relationship with the EU after Brexit. I’m never sure what they think this means. And do our Continental neighbours agree? It is hard, perhaps impossible, really to feel the subconscious characteristics that stem from geography, history and culture. Certainly, we lucky islanders have rarely had existential worries about our “identity” or our borders. But France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Hungary – to mention only the biggest – have experienced border disputes or territorial changes even within living memory. You can fight over these things, or you can try to transcend them. So thought Europeanism’s founding fathers, who included men from borderlands wanting to end a nightmare.
Rightly or wrongly, this can never be an instinctive British preoccupation. We could never have been at the heart of this “Europe”, with its quasi-religious mission to replace old nationalisms with an ersatz Europeanism seen as benign. “We have made Europe, now we have to make Europeans”, wrote one leading EU politician a few years back. We might theoretically understand the mistrust of popular sovereignty that has created the EU as a secretive elite power structure. But most of us can never feel this to be the inevitable price for peace. The 20th century taught us a different lesson: that the democratic nation is the bulwark of European civilisation, not its enemy. We instinctively feel that suppressing democratic choice is the truly dangerous course.
Like it or not, we are on the edge, as our eventual relationship with the EU ought to reflect. “Europe” is there, not here. Even the keenest British federalists talk about it as a different place which they wistfully dream of being part of. Semi-detachment runs through our history. We have had shifting relationships with different parts of the continent, so that it is hard even to say with which we have most affinity. Christianity came from Rome. Later we became a southern colony of pagan Scandinavia. Our language is Germanic. We went through a transformative four-century relationship with France. We had a long economic and security relationship with the Netherlands, for a time having the same ruler. For more than a century, after the Hanoverian succession, we were a power in Germany.
Britain has been both the ally and the enemy of every great Continental state, Catholic and Protestant, monarchy, democracy and dictatorship. Its monarch even has a plausible claim to be a sherif of Islam, a descendent of the Prophet Mohammed. It has never been tempted or forced to ally with the hegemonic Continental power to share in the spoils of dominating Europe. If national identity was important, 20 miles of sea were certainly no less; and trans-oceanic connections provided global resources to oppose Continental threats and work to create a “balance of power”. So Britain was the only major European state that never became an ally or a willing satellite of either Napoleon or Hitler, but decided to resist them even when the struggle seemed hopeless. Finally, it never made a serious attempt to join a triumvirate with France and Germany to control the EU. Independence has been our watchword.
The lure of opportunity overseas pulled us away from Continental ambitions. Though the Glorious Revolution of 1688 began the “second hundred years war” with France, ending only at Waterloo, the struggle became increasingly global, fought not only on the plains of Flanders, but in India and America. After Waterloo, Britain refused to be part of the Holy Alliance, a Great Power scheme to run the Continent, becoming instead the patron and protector of independent states, including France, Belgium, Greece, Spain and Portugal.
Britain made little effort to shape the unification of Italy during the 1850s, and watched with limited concern and negligible influence as the separate German states were turned by Otto von Bismarck into a new and powerful Empire by aggressive wars against Denmark, Austria and France. Even had Britain wished to interfere it could scarcely have done so. It was never a superpower, but always a medium-sized state, sometimes having to punch above its weight but not getting into the ring at all if it could avoid it. Bismarck joked that if the British landed their army in Germany, he would have it arrested, and Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli declared that Britain “was really more an Asiatic power than a European”.
Was this a great geopolitical mistake? Many who later supported European integration thought so. But Brexit proves that it was too late to alter it. The millions who emigrated over the last two centuries in search of a better life did not cross the Channel or the North Sea to become Europeans, but went to English-speaking countries across the oceans. Today, two and a half times as many British citizens live in the “Anglosphere” as in the EU, and Britain’s main ethnic minorities are from Commonwealth countries. Even when we were striving to be “at the heart of Europe”, we were less economically integrated than any other EU member, and for 20 years our trade has been increasingly moving away from the Continent.
Opinion polling shows that our views of the EU are not very different from those of our Continental neighbours – that is, unenthusiastic or worse. The difference is that they feel that they have no choice but to remain members. Economic calculation weighs. But so do the instinctive feelings that stem from geography and history. The detached or semi-detached countries – Norway, Switzerland, ourselves and the non-Eurozone member-states – are all in different ways outsiders.
Our peculiarity – or so General de Gaulle thought when he vetoed our entry into the European Economic Community – was that we were too global: “an island, sea-going, bound up, by its trade, its markets, its food supplies, with the most varied and often the most distant countries”. It has taken us half a century to realise he was right, and finally to go with the grain."
)
We're not different, we are all human beings with internal organs, who need to breath air, eat food, and drink water to survive.
Working together instead of harking back to some bygone era that some people think can be rekindled and is romantic is such a backwards step, it's beyond belief.
My only hope, seeing as the referendum was carried by the older voter, though I appreciate not exclusively, and that the younger the voter was, the higher percentage wanted to stay in, is that within my daughters working life there is enough common sense to ask to rejoin.
I just have to hope they will accept us back - if I were them, I probably would not, but again, the generation of Europeans who had to deal with this little britain nonsense will have changed by then, so hopefully memories are short enough to not influence that in a negative fashion too much.
We may technically be an Island, but that does not mean we have to have an island mentality - that's a lazy reason imho, in the vein of 'god told me to'Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
I have a lot in common with the French cyclists I’ve had the pleasure to cycle with over the years - riding around SW London means there’s a steady supply of them!daniel_b said:
I could do, but there is no chance of that ever happening - perhaps it would have happened when I was much younger, and might have had more childish leanings towards nationalism etc, but I have gotten older, grown, and changed considerably since then.Stevo_666 said:
You could look at it like that, but recognising that we are different from our continental friends is not necessarily being insular (although one meaning of insular is 'relating to or from an island'daniel_b said:
To me this article reeks of an insular, inwards looking population here in the uk - and as it appears to regrettably be true, I find that incredibly sad, disheartening and depressing - both for myself, but even more so for the likes of my 7 year old daughter and her generation.rjsterry said:
Um... I guess it illustrates a point of view. One that ignores huge tracts of history but everyone likes a bit of mythology. Feels like someone thumbing through their Reader's Digest Encyclopedia of British History looking for events to back up their starting assumption.Stevo_666 said:Also from a more philiosophical standpoint, this might help a few people understand the current situation:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/16/great-britain-never-never-will-european-country/
"“Britain is a European nation,” Remainers still often say when calling for the closest possible relationship with the EU after Brexit. I’m never sure what they think this means. And do our Continental neighbours agree? It is hard, perhaps impossible, really to feel the subconscious characteristics that stem from geography, history and culture. Certainly, we lucky islanders have rarely had existential worries about our “identity” or our borders. But France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Hungary – to mention only the biggest – have experienced border disputes or territorial changes even within living memory. You can fight over these things, or you can try to transcend them. So thought Europeanism’s founding fathers, who included men from borderlands wanting to end a nightmare.
Rightly or wrongly, this can never be an instinctive British preoccupation. We could never have been at the heart of this “Europe”, with its quasi-religious mission to replace old nationalisms with an ersatz Europeanism seen as benign. “We have made Europe, now we have to make Europeans”, wrote one leading EU politician a few years back. We might theoretically understand the mistrust of popular sovereignty that has created the EU as a secretive elite power structure. But most of us can never feel this to be the inevitable price for peace. The 20th century taught us a different lesson: that the democratic nation is the bulwark of European civilisation, not its enemy. We instinctively feel that suppressing democratic choice is the truly dangerous course.
Like it or not, we are on the edge, as our eventual relationship with the EU ought to reflect. “Europe” is there, not here. Even the keenest British federalists talk about it as a different place which they wistfully dream of being part of. Semi-detachment runs through our history. We have had shifting relationships with different parts of the continent, so that it is hard even to say with which we have most affinity. Christianity came from Rome. Later we became a southern colony of pagan Scandinavia. Our language is Germanic. We went through a transformative four-century relationship with France. We had a long economic and security relationship with the Netherlands, for a time having the same ruler. For more than a century, after the Hanoverian succession, we were a power in Germany.
Britain has been both the ally and the enemy of every great Continental state, Catholic and Protestant, monarchy, democracy and dictatorship. Its monarch even has a plausible claim to be a sherif of Islam, a descendent of the Prophet Mohammed. It has never been tempted or forced to ally with the hegemonic Continental power to share in the spoils of dominating Europe. If national identity was important, 20 miles of sea were certainly no less; and trans-oceanic connections provided global resources to oppose Continental threats and work to create a “balance of power”. So Britain was the only major European state that never became an ally or a willing satellite of either Napoleon or Hitler, but decided to resist them even when the struggle seemed hopeless. Finally, it never made a serious attempt to join a triumvirate with France and Germany to control the EU. Independence has been our watchword.
The lure of opportunity overseas pulled us away from Continental ambitions. Though the Glorious Revolution of 1688 began the “second hundred years war” with France, ending only at Waterloo, the struggle became increasingly global, fought not only on the plains of Flanders, but in India and America. After Waterloo, Britain refused to be part of the Holy Alliance, a Great Power scheme to run the Continent, becoming instead the patron and protector of independent states, including France, Belgium, Greece, Spain and Portugal.
Britain made little effort to shape the unification of Italy during the 1850s, and watched with limited concern and negligible influence as the separate German states were turned by Otto von Bismarck into a new and powerful Empire by aggressive wars against Denmark, Austria and France. Even had Britain wished to interfere it could scarcely have done so. It was never a superpower, but always a medium-sized state, sometimes having to punch above its weight but not getting into the ring at all if it could avoid it. Bismarck joked that if the British landed their army in Germany, he would have it arrested, and Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli declared that Britain “was really more an Asiatic power than a European”.
Was this a great geopolitical mistake? Many who later supported European integration thought so. But Brexit proves that it was too late to alter it. The millions who emigrated over the last two centuries in search of a better life did not cross the Channel or the North Sea to become Europeans, but went to English-speaking countries across the oceans. Today, two and a half times as many British citizens live in the “Anglosphere” as in the EU, and Britain’s main ethnic minorities are from Commonwealth countries. Even when we were striving to be “at the heart of Europe”, we were less economically integrated than any other EU member, and for 20 years our trade has been increasingly moving away from the Continent.
Opinion polling shows that our views of the EU are not very different from those of our Continental neighbours – that is, unenthusiastic or worse. The difference is that they feel that they have no choice but to remain members. Economic calculation weighs. But so do the instinctive feelings that stem from geography and history. The detached or semi-detached countries – Norway, Switzerland, ourselves and the non-Eurozone member-states – are all in different ways outsiders.
Our peculiarity – or so General de Gaulle thought when he vetoed our entry into the European Economic Community – was that we were too global: “an island, sea-going, bound up, by its trade, its markets, its food supplies, with the most varied and often the most distant countries”. It has taken us half a century to realise he was right, and finally to go with the grain." )
We're not different, we are all human beings with internal organs, who need to breah air, eat food, and drink water to survive.
Working together instead of harking back to some bygone era that some people think can be rekindled and is romantic is such a backwards step, it's beyond belief.
My only hope, seeing as the referendum was carried by the older voter, though I appreciate not exclusively, and that the younger the voter was, the higher percentage wanted to stay in, is that within my daughters working life there is enough common sense to ask to rejoin.
I just have to hope they will accept us back - if I were them, I probably would not, but again, the generation of Europeans who had to deal with this little britain nonsense will have changed by then, so hopefully memories are short enough to not influence that in a negative fashion too much.
We may technically be an Island, but that does not mean we have to have an island mentality - that's a lazy reason imho.
We’re generally all middle class, educated, holiday in the same places, have a similar sense of sarcasm and irony, dislike Macron to some extent, have the same attitude towards educating children, etc. I’d bet if you put English and French bus drivers together they’d have a lot in common!
I find the whole division because we’re different nationalities a bit ‘ football supporter’ I suppose...0 -
Tony Connelly says it is still all about the fish, but could happen in the next 24 hours.Dorset_Boy said:Reuters reporting a deal is 'imminent', whatever that may mean!
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Good news is Lufthansa is flying in veg apparently. Like a Berlin airlift in reverse. Oh the irony0
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Great, boiled cabbage all around then...amrushton said:Good news is Lufthansa is flying in veg apparently. Like a Berlin airlift in reverse. Oh the irony
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darkhairedlord said:
Great, boiled cabbage all around then...amrushton said:Good news is Lufthansa is flying in veg apparently. Like a Berlin airlift in reverse. Oh the irony
I guess it'll be SAS bringing the swedes...0 -
