BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Stevo_666

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also interesting is the underlying logic that the EU has to 'punish' the UK to discourage others from trying leave. If the EU is such a great club to be in, why would they need to do that?

We ve chosen to leave the EU, therefore we lose our benefits (and apparently gain £350m per week to spend as we wish) its a very simple logic, applies to clubs, unions and organisations.
i doubt the AA/RAC give free recovery break down to people who dont renew their membership.

That is a very poor analogy.

The AA/RAC relationship with its customers is pretty binary. Either you are in a contract with them for a year or you aren't. The UK-EU relationship is one of on-going trading and political relationships regardless of whether BREXIT happens. And is way more complex.

its exactly the same as the AA membership, your lot gave the electorate a binary choice, IN or OUT, Out means no benefits of membership.

if it were such a complex decision, then Cameron must have been a complete idiot to have wanted a referendum and TMay an even bigger one for continuing down this path.

You don't really understand the point.

Even after we after out in whatever form that takes, we will stil have substantial commercial and political dealings with EU countries and there will be arrangements in place governing numerous aspects of this. Completely different from the AA scenario you mention. Once you are not a member of the AA you won't be dealing with them at all will you.

joelsim

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

And you feel that has got worse in the last month?

Yes. And this is just the beginning.

Sorry to be the bringer of more bad news but nobody on here as pointed out that Merkel old the German car industry to get lost if they think they can dictate Brexit terms. Elsewhere I read the suggestion that even if they fought for a deal on their exports they would not want our car industry to have the same deal.

Anyway cheer up - rather than an economic apocalypse we are likely to see long term economic decline.

I posted the Merkel article a couple of days ago.

joelsim

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also interesting is the underlying logic that the EU has to 'punish' the UK to discourage others from trying leave. If the EU is such a great club to be in, why would they need to do that?

We ve chosen to leave the EU, therefore we lose our benefits (and apparently gain £350m per week to spend as we wish) its a very simple logic, applies to clubs, unions and organisations.
i doubt the AA/RAC give free recovery break down to people who dont renew their membership.

That is a very poor analogy.

The AA/RAC relationship with its customers is pretty binary. Either you are in a contract with them for a year or you aren't. The UK-EU relationship is one of on-going trading and political relationships regardless of whether BREXIT happens. And is way more complex.

its exactly the same as the AA membership, your lot gave the electorate a binary choice, IN or OUT, Out means no benefits of membership.

if it were such a complex decision, then Cameron must have been a complete idiot to have wanted a referendum and TMay an even bigger one for continuing down this path.

You don't really understand the point.

Even after we after out in whatever form that takes, we will stil have substantial commercial and political dealings with EU countries and there will be arrangements in place governing numerous aspects of this. Completely different from the AA scenario you mention. Once you are not a member of the AA you won't be dealing with them at all will you.

Can I ask you what exactly it is that pleases you about the destruction of the moral fibre and the economy of the UK Steve?

Lookyhere

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

That is a very poor analogy.

The AA/RAC relationship with its customers is pretty binary. Either you are in a contract with them for a year or you aren't. The UK-EU relationship is one of on-going trading and political relationships regardless of whether BREXIT happens. And is way more complex.

its exactly the same as the AA membership, your lot gave the electorate a binary choice, IN or OUT, Out means no benefits of membership.

if it were such a complex decision, then Cameron must have been a complete idiot to have wanted a referendum and TMay an even bigger one for continuing down this path.

You don't really understand the point.

Even after we after out in whatever form that takes, we will stil have substantial commercial and political dealings with EU countries and there will be arrangements in place governing numerous aspects of this. Completely different from the AA scenario you mention. Once you are not a member of the AA you won't be dealing with them at all will you.[/quote]

i think its you that dont understand, we were given a binary choice and we chose OUT, Gov policy is OUT, Brexit means Brexit, we have to deal with the countries of the EU, but like my AA analogy, we dont have access to the AA patrols but we do have to share the road with their yellow vans.

and i ll ask you again, why did you lot give a referendum if the decision and the outcome was complicated? in your opinion, was Cameron wrong then?

joelsim

Happy days. Not that it wasn't predicted by the experts.

https://www.ft.com/content/6827dea6-8ca ... ada1d123b1

joelsim

Amber Rudd's brother. Shows what being around scumbags at Tory conferences does to you. Nurture not nature.

The Home Secretary’s brother has attacked the Government’s “denigration of foreign workers” after Amber Rudd announced a policy to force businesses to publish figures on the number of foreign staff they employ.

Roland Rudd, the head of PR agency Finsbury who – like his sister – campaigned for Remain during the referendum, wrote in an article for the London Evening Standard that there could be no place for “vilifying foreigners in the new Britain”.

On Tuesday, Amber Rudd told the Conservative Party conference that foreign workers should not be able to “take the jobs that British people should do”.

Her brother wrote: “In a democracy there is always a spectrum of views.

“Those of us who want a sensible Brexit, who want Britain to remain a beacon of tolerance and who find the denigration of non-British workers appalling have a duty to speak out.

“Try and stand up for a multiracial Britain and you are labelled part of the liberal elite; point out the £20 billion net contribution from immigrants over a decade and you are told you are not listening to the people; oppose hate crime and you are mocked for political correctness.

“It is easier to vilify foreigners in the new Britain than it is to espouse European values.”

Stevo_666

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

That is a very poor analogy.

The AA/RAC relationship with its customers is pretty binary. Either you are in a contract with them for a year or you aren't. The UK-EU relationship is one of on-going trading and political relationships regardless of whether BREXIT happens. And is way more complex.

its exactly the same as the AA membership, your lot gave the electorate a binary choice, IN or OUT, Out means no benefits of membership.

if it were such a complex decision, then Cameron must have been a complete idiot to have wanted a referendum and TMay an even bigger one for continuing down this path.

You don't really understand the point.

Even after we after out in whatever form that takes, we will stil have substantial commercial and political dealings with EU countries and there will be arrangements in place governing numerous aspects of this. Completely different from the AA scenario you mention. Once you are not a member of the AA you won't be dealing with them at all will you.

i think its you that dont understand, we were given a binary choice and we chose OUT, Gov policy is OUT, Brexit means Brexit, we have to deal with the countries of the EU, but like my AA analogy, we dont have access to the AA patrols but we do have to share the road with their yellow vans.

and i ll ask you again, why did you lot give a referendum if the decision and the outcome was complicated? in your opinion, was Cameron wrong then?[/quote]
Let me try to pit it another way as you seem to be struggling with this one.

AA membership is binary. So is EU membership. Just to be clear.

Sharing the road with yellow vans is simply not comparable to trading with and having political interaction between countries. Its like saying we will continue to be on the same part of the earth as the rest of Europe after BREXIT - obvious but not relevant No comparison at all.

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also interesting is the underlying logic that the EU has to 'punish' the UK to discourage others from trying leave. If the EU is such a great club to be in, why would they need to do that?

We ve chosen to leave the EU, therefore we lose our benefits (and apparently gain £350m per week to spend as we wish) its a very simple logic, applies to clubs, unions and organisations.
i doubt the AA/RAC give free recovery break down to people who dont renew their membership.

That is a very poor analogy.

The AA/RAC relationship with its customers is pretty binary. Either you are in a contract with them for a year or you aren't. The UK-EU relationship is one of on-going trading and political relationships regardless of whether BREXIT happens. And is way more complex.

its exactly the same as the AA membership, your lot gave the electorate a binary choice, IN or OUT, Out means no benefits of membership.

if it were such a complex decision, then Cameron must have been a complete idiot to have wanted a referendum and TMay an even bigger one for continuing down this path.

You don't really understand the point.

Even after we after out in whatever form that takes, we will stil have substantial commercial and political dealings with EU countries and there will be arrangements in place governing numerous aspects of this. Completely different from the AA scenario you mention. Once you are not a member of the AA you won't be dealing with them at all will you.

Can I ask you what exactly it is that pleases you about the destruction of the moral fibre and the economy of the UK Steve?

Where did I say or even imply that?

joelsim

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Also interesting is the underlying logic that the EU has to 'punish' the UK to discourage others from trying leave. If the EU is such a great club to be in, why would they need to do that?

We ve chosen to leave the EU, therefore we lose our benefits (and apparently gain £350m per week to spend as we wish) its a very simple logic, applies to clubs, unions and organisations.
i doubt the AA/RAC give free recovery break down to people who dont renew their membership.

That is a very poor analogy.

The AA/RAC relationship with its customers is pretty binary. Either you are in a contract with them for a year or you aren't. The UK-EU relationship is one of on-going trading and political relationships regardless of whether BREXIT happens. And is way more complex.

its exactly the same as the AA membership, your lot gave the electorate a binary choice, IN or OUT, Out means no benefits of membership.

if it were such a complex decision, then Cameron must have been a complete idiot to have wanted a referendum and TMay an even bigger one for continuing down this path.

You don't really understand the point.

Even after we after out in whatever form that takes, we will stil have substantial commercial and political dealings with EU countries and there will be arrangements in place governing numerous aspects of this. Completely different from the AA scenario you mention. Once you are not a member of the AA you won't be dealing with them at all will you.

Can I ask you what exactly it is that pleases you about the destruction of the moral fibre and the economy of the UK Steve?

Where did I say or even imply that?

Your posts imply that you think Brexit is a good idea and that you have support for this government. Have I misinterpreted every post you've made?

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

Are you seriously saying that the last 3 months has done this?

If things are as bad as you think, what are you doing about it? Logically you should be looking at packing your bags and moving to Europe while you still can.

And there is a slight irony in the fact that a lot of people voted out for exactly the reason you gave above.

joelsim

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

Are you seriously saying that the last 3 months has done this?

If things are as bad as you think, what are you doing about it? Logically you should be looking at packing your bags and moving to Europe while you still can.

And there is a slight irony in the fact that a lot of people voted out for exactly the reason you gave above.

If indeed there is irony in air travel, globalisation and pointless nationalism.

I would if I could but I have a business here, and two kids who don't live with me who live here.

With regard to the last 6 months, it was pretty clear that there are social issues but this crowd promoting division and incorrect allocation of blame to further their goals stinks.

surrey_commuter

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

Are you seriously saying that the last 3 months has done this?

If things are as bad as you think, what are you doing about it? Logically you should be looking at packing your bags and moving to Europe while you still can.

And there is a slight irony in the fact that a lot of people voted out for exactly the reason you gave above.

If indeed there is irony in air travel, globalisation and pointless nationalism.

I would if I could but I have a business here, and two kids who don't live with me who live here.

With regard to the last 6 months, it was pretty clear that there are social issues but this crowd promoting division and incorrect allocation of blame to further their goals stinks.

You are over-reacting to politicians playing up to the Conference crowd. It happens every year, the only difference is that this people were watching. You could argue that the Tories should have known this and toned it down. On the flip side May has made herself bullet proof for a year

orraloon

Here's a question for the assembly. Would you classify an admirer today, in 2016, of Enoch Powell as:
a) closet racist
b) openly racist
c) what a fine chap(ess)
d) an examplar of 'British Values'?

Step forward Simon Heffer in the Torygraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10 ... tening-to/

Published 8/10/16 1215PM for future google cache searching should it disappear or morph into something less OMFG.

Getting brave these nasty pieces of work, lots of stones being crawled out from under. Any bets on the date of the 1st open and deliberate use of the N-word?

TheBigBean

Anyone who thought that Tersea May was a nice woman has been sticking their head in the sand. Her treatment of foreign spouses has been despicable, but then as that only affects a small number of people most have comfortably managed to ignore it to date. This latest Brexit issue seems to have rattled more cages.

joelsim

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

Are you seriously saying that the last 3 months has done this?

If things are as bad as you think, what are you doing about it? Logically you should be looking at packing your bags and moving to Europe while you still can.

And there is a slight irony in the fact that a lot of people voted out for exactly the reason you gave above.

If indeed there is irony in air travel, globalisation and pointless nationalism.

I would if I could but I have a business here, and two kids who don't live with me who live here.

With regard to the last 6 months, it was pretty clear that there are social issues but this crowd promoting division and incorrect allocation of blame to further their goals stinks.

You are over-reacting to politicians playing up to the Conference crowd. It happens every year, the only difference is that this people were watching. You could argue that the Tories should have known this and toned it down. On the flip side May has made herself bullet proof for a year

She's only made herself bullet proof in her own cabinet. There are many in the media and business sectors who she's lost completely already.

TheBigBean

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

surrey_commuter

Joelsim wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

Are you seriously saying that the last 3 months has done this?

If things are as bad as you think, what are you doing about it? Logically you should be looking at packing your bags and moving to Europe while you still can.

And there is a slight irony in the fact that a lot of people voted out for exactly the reason you gave above.

If indeed there is irony in air travel, globalisation and pointless nationalism.

I would if I could but I have a business here, and two kids who don't live with me who live here.

With regard to the last 6 months, it was pretty clear that there are social issues but this crowd promoting division and incorrect allocation of blame to further their goals stinks.

You are over-reacting to politicians playing up to the Conference crowd. It happens every year, the only difference is that this people were watching. You could argue that the Tories should have known this and toned it down. On the flip side May has made herself bullet proof for a year

She's only made herself bullet proof in her own cabinet. There are many in the media and business sectors who she's lost completely already.

If I was her I would not worry about her own cabinet or business ( not sure she has lost any media), her problems will come from the back benchers who will rebel at anything less than a scorched earth policy. Keep an eye on the likes of John Redwood at the tail end of their careers with nothing to lose.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean wrote:

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

If you can get an Irish passport then try NYC

TheBigBean

Surrey Commuter wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

If you can get an Irish passport then try NYC

It is tempting although they work a bit too hard with no employment rights!

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

Your posts imply that you think Brexit is a good idea and that you have support for this government. Have I misinterpreted every post you've made?

A quick recap:
1 I voted to Remain. With reservations of course.
2. We are where we are and have to make the best of it. There are clearly negative consequences to what is happening but there is plenty still to fight for.
3. You have already decided to take the worst case scenario for the UK of any issue that comes up in this debate - so utterly negative and defeatist that I need to take you to task on your views. Especially as you come across as thinking that you can predict the future with certainty and treat predictions that agree with your preconceptions as gospel.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

If you can get an Irish passport then try NYC

It is tempting although they work a bit too hard with no employment rights!

True story.

briantrumpet

Surrey Commuter wrote:

You are over-reacting to politicians playing up to the Conference crowd. It happens every year, the only difference is that this people were watching.

Hmm, I think the difference is that these people have the very future of Large Britain at stake in imminent negotiations, and at once they are backing 'us' into a corner, and p!ssing off the people they are going to have to negotiate with. Oh, and making it seem that blaming foreigners for all our woes is a clever thing to do, and that that in some way represents the values of LB. And that's why I put 'us' in inverted commas. It's not my values, or the values that I thought were those of the country I lived in.

Sorry if I'm over-reacting.

verylonglegs

briantrumpet wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

You are over-reacting to politicians playing up to the Conference crowd. It happens every year, the only difference is that this people were watching.

Hmm, I think the difference is that these people have the very future of Large Britain at stake in imminent negotiations, and at once they are backing 'us' into a corner, and p!ssing off the people they are going to have to negotiate with. Oh, and making it seem that blaming foreigners for all our woes is a clever thing to do, and that that in some way represents the values of LB. And that's why I put 'us' in inverted commas. It's not my values, or the values that I thought were those of the country I lived in.

Sorry if I'm over-reacting.

That's the problem I have with the latest rhetoric, I mean yeah sure conferences have always been used for making noise but the type of noise, the whole them and us and rally behind the flag nonsense...once that kind of stuff is out of the bottle it's usually very hard to reign in. Politicians are always arrogant enough to think they can control it and use it without consequence. It also concerns me how early it has been deployed, with nearly 4 yrs to the next GE, because from here if there are no tangible benefits from the EU exit before then I can only imagine the nationalist bent on things will only get louder and the promises more fanciful. Every single downside to leaving will be the fault of 'them' and not because you have to give something in order to get something back. Crazy times ahead I feel and definitely a period to avoid reading the press for the masses if you want to keep your sanity.

joelsim

briantrumpet wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

You are over-reacting to politicians playing up to the Conference crowd. It happens every year, the only difference is that this people were watching.

Hmm, I think the difference is that these people have the very future of Large Britain at stake in imminent negotiations, and at once they are backing 'us' into a corner, and p!ssing off the people they are going to have to negotiate with. Oh, and making it seem that blaming foreigners for all our woes is a clever thing to do, and that that in some way represents the values of LB. And that's why I put 'us' in inverted commas. It's not my values, or the values that I thought were those of the country I lived in.

Sorry if I'm over-reacting.

Well said. Blaming foreigners after their own lack of investment in needy areas.

BelgianBeerGeek

TM has to play to the crowd - she has no option, not having won a GE. All rhetoric and easy to do. She won't last, despite the fine words. The knives will be out before long. Cameron jumped before he was pushed.
TM is in office to settle a few scores in the Home Office, stuff that frustrated her whilst she was Home Sec. Although, politics being what it is, if it suits the Tories to keep her out front she might be held out there for a bit longer.

BelgianBeerGeek

Surrey Commuter wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

If you can get an Irish passport then try NYC

Canada? Vancouver fits the bill, although property can be pricey.

ballysmate

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Because this isn't the country I grew up in anymore.

And there's absolutely no justifiable reason for what's happening.

Are you seriously saying that the last 3 months has done this?

If things are as bad as you think, what are you doing about it? Logically you should be looking at packing your bags and moving to Europe while you still can.

And there is a slight irony in the fact that a lot of people voted out for exactly the reason you gave above.

Just did a search for 'irony' in the OED and it came up with Joel's post.

Lookyhere

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Your posts imply that you think Brexit is a good idea and that you have support for this government. Have I misinterpreted every post you've made?

A quick recap:
1 I voted to Remain. With reservations of course.
2. We are where we are and have to make the best of it. There are clearly negative consequences to what is happening but there is plenty still to fight for.
3. You have already decided to take the worst case scenario for the UK of any issue that comes up in this debate - so utterly negative and defeatist that I need to take you to task on your views. Especially as you come across as thinking that you can predict the future with certainty and treat predictions that agree with your preconceptions as gospel.

we ll have to move on but do you think DC was correct to put this (as you say very complex decision) to the population?

TheBigBean

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

If you can get an Irish passport then try NYC

Canada? Vancouver fits the bill, although property can be pricey.

I couldn't quite put my finger on why Vancouver didn't really appeal that much, so I did some googling. I found this academic study which categorised world cities.

Turns out there are only two Alpha++ cities. Some of the Alpha+ cities would suffice though. Vancouver is a Beta.

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2012t.html

Stevo_666

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Your posts imply that you think Brexit is a good idea and that you have support for this government. Have I misinterpreted every post you've made?

A quick recap:
1 I voted to Remain. With reservations of course.
2. We are where we are and have to make the best of it. There are clearly negative consequences to what is happening but there is plenty still to fight for.
3. You have already decided to take the worst case scenario for the UK of any issue that comes up in this debate - so utterly negative and defeatist that I need to take you to task on your views. Especially as you come across as thinking that you can predict the future with certainty and treat predictions that agree with your preconceptions as gospel.

we ll have to move on but do you think DC was correct to put this (as you say very complex decision) to the population?

We will have to move on.

Parliament voted on whether to hold the EU referendum and a clear majority voted in favour. So yes.